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Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: SCRUM & UML

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  • Stefan Ahrensdorf
    I agree with the other two responses on the subject but wanted to add what I found to work well for us: Apply UML as one of several tools in your arsenal when
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 5, 2005
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      I agree with the other two responses on the subject but wanted to add what I found to work well for us:

      Apply UML as one of several tools in your arsenal when appropriate, that is optional.
      I like state, activity and sequence diagrams both for internal elaboration and when communicating with the product owner and users - it's the old "a picture says more than a thousand words". Don't have your BA's draw tons (or any for that matter) of them upfront but whiteboard them in an interactive fashion. Take a picture with your digicam for reference. If and only if you need to extend the diagram in a future sprint, or the diagram is pertinent to core business rules that you need to reference throughout the project consider drawing it up nicely in Visio or similar.
      On class diagrams - beyond whiteboarding use them only if there is a good (read automated) way of keeping them in sync with your code. If you can't keep them in sync then your code becomes your documentation. Same goes for database schemas.
      If your team grows/changes a lot start thinking about some basic references to get help people get up to speed, i.e. a high level architecture overview, deployment diagrams, and some database stuff.

      hth
      Best regards
      Stefan

      witster_1 wrote on 4/5/2005 11:25 AM:

      I'm implementing Scrum for the first time and we're going to try to
      incorporate UML notation with it.  I know in reading the Scrum
      resources that it's best to have the team determine what artifacts
      will guide them in their development effort.  To always remember that
      when we're documented to answer the question, "How is this helping us
      code?"  But my issue is how do I move forward?  In my first sprint,
      I've been asked, "What should the developers be doing while the BA's
      are writing Use Cases?"  I have responded by saying that the
      developer should be working right alongside the BA's and coding while
      the Use Cases are being documented.  Is this the correct approach??
      Does anyone have some advice for me in moving forward?  I'm starting
      to feel that maybe we should spend more time upfront with Use Case
      modeling, writing Use Cases and specs, but then I feel that's not
      being very agile.

      thanks!


      --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Schiel James - SHS Malvern
      <james.schiel@s...> wrote:
      >
      > Same here...we employ UML in some of our use case work, but only
      because it
      > works well for the team, not because of any relationship with Scrum.
      >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: Ron Jeffries [mailto:ronjeffries@X...]
      > > Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2005 6:37 AM
      > > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      > > Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] SCRUM & UML
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > On Sunday, March 6, 2005, at 6:16:00 AM, Alex Jouravlev wrote:
      > >
      > > > I wonder if anybody knows of sucessful projects combining
      > > SCRUM & UML?
      > >
      > > What kind of use of UML are you concerned about? I'm aware of many
      > > projects that draw some UML on the whiteboard from time to time,
      for
      > > example.
      > >
      > > Ron Jeffries
      > > www.XProgramming.com
      > > The main reason that testing at the end of a development cycle
      finds
      > > problems is not that problems were put in near the end, it is that
      > > testing was put off until then.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > To Post a message, send it to:   scrumdevelopment@e...
      > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
      > > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@e...
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > 
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
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    • Leo Zancani
      A pair of ponderings on about UML: First: IMHO, UML is a useful way of communicating about software when you want to be just a little bit more specific in your
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 6, 2005
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        A pair of ponderings on about UML:

        First:
        IMHO, UML is a useful way of communicating about software when you want
        to be just a little bit more specific in your communication than
        undefined-semantics-boxes-and-arrows scribbles (also very useful of
        course).

        Worrying about it feels a bit like some maths guys worrying about
        whether to use the "f'(x)" or "df(x)/dx" notation for derivatives; who
        cares as long as everyone understands it?

        Second:
        Again only an opinion, but I think UML *notation* has two distinct uses:
        (1) to notate UML *models* (which are abstract entities for which the
        different UML diagram types represent views) and (2) to help software
        people talk about software.

        Unless you are doing (1), where the diagrams need to be "correct and
        complete" for the underlying model to be consistent and complete, using
        "correct and complete" UML is a bit like putting serifs on characters
        when you draw them by hand.

        I've never heard of anyone doing UML modelling in an agile context
        (mostly because we don't live in a world where the tools are good enough
        that a UML model is just an alternative to code). A lot of teams I've
        seen use it (to whatever degree of detail/correctness is appropriate at
        that instant) to talk to each other about software though...

        Cheers,
        Leo

        > I'm implementing Scrum for the first time and we're going to try to
        > incorporate UML notation with it. I know in reading the Scrum
        > resources that it's best to have the team determine what artifacts
        > will guide them in their development effort. To always remember that
        > when we're documented to answer the question, "How is this helping us
        > code?" But my issue is how do I move forward? In my first sprint,
        > I've been asked, "What should the developers be doing while the BA's
        > are writing Use Cases?" I have responded by saying that the
        > developer should be working right alongside the BA's and coding while
        > the Use Cases are being documented. Is this the correct approach??
        > Does anyone have some advice for me in moving forward? I'm starting
        > to feel that maybe we should spend more time upfront with Use Case
        > modeling, writing Use Cases and specs, but then I feel that's not
        > being very agile.
        >
        > thanks!
        >
        >
      • Boris Gloger
        Hi ----, I do have four Scrum Teams runningn in sync and we will using MDSD in the future. [...] I have ... So I hope I will be able to answer this question in
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 6, 2005
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          Hi ----,

          I do have four Scrum Teams runningn in sync and we will using MDSD in
          the future.
          [...]

          I have
          > not yet worked with a Scrum team that used UML in a Model
          > Driven Architecture context to generate code from UML models,
          > but I'm very interested if anyone has done so.
          >

          So I hope I will be able to answer this question in future with more insight.

          What I will try to find out ist to see in which way we will be able to
          build an "incremental" archtitecture that emerges by using MDSD and
          the tools for this.

          Cheers

          Boris
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