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RE: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum: a silly name?

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  • Mike Beedle
    Don t you love the Get Smart definition of SCRUM? I am sure customers would be thrilled to find that definition somewhere in their invoices (not!). I guess
    Message 1 of 11 , Apr 3 11:25 PM
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      Don't you love the "Get Smart" definition of SCRUM? I am sure
      customers would be thrilled to find that definition somewhere in their
      invoices (not!).

      I guess that's why we do Scrum not SCRUM,

      - Mike



      -----Original Message-----
      From: Mike Cohn [mailto:mike@...]
      Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 10:36 PM
      To: Scrumdevelopment
      Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum: a silly name?


      It comes from the original Takeuchi and Nonaka paper ("The New New Product
      Development Game" in Harvard Business Review in January 1986). The key quote
      is

      ³The Œrelay race¹ approach to product development may conflict with the
      goals of maximum speed and flexibility. Instead a holistic or Œrugby¹
      approach‹where a team tries to go the distance as a unit, passing the ball
      back and forth‹may better serve today¹s competitive requirements.²

      It's not an acronym although it was once used as such in the TV show "Mad
      About You." On that episode Barbara Feldon (of "Get Smart") was playing the
      fictional tv character "Spy Girl." Since every spy needs a nemesis, Spy
      Girl's was SCRUM--the Society for the Complete Ruination of Universal
      Mankind.

      Which, I think, sums up our true goal here.

      --Mike


      On 4/3/05 9:27 PM, "Deb" <deborah@...> wrote:

      >
      >
      > Seemingly, a question in search of an answer, below.
      > Anyone?
      >
      > "Why did someone name an agile method "scrum"? From Dictionary.com:
      > scrum: A disordered or confused situation involving
      > a number of people.
      > That doesn't exactly make me want to embrace it for my development
      > projects!"
      >
      > http://www.coolbits.nu/685.aspx
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
      > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
      > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
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      >
      >
      >
      >
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      >




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    • Diana Larsen
      Does this definition lead to comments on software projects, like, Oh please Ms/Mr ScrumMaster, may I be the hooker in our Scrum? Diana Diana Larsen
      Message 2 of 11 , Apr 4 7:00 AM
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        Does this definition lead to comments on software projects, like, "Oh
        please Ms/Mr ScrumMaster, may I be the hooker in our Scrum?"

        Diana

        Diana Larsen
        www.futureworksconsulting.com 503-288-3550

        Upcoming Workshop:
        "The Secrets of Agile Teamwork: Beyond Technical Skills"
        Presenters: Diana Larsen and Esther Derby
        April 5-7, 2005


        On Apr 3, 2005, at 11:06 PM, David H. wrote:

        > <snip>
        >
        > Not to mention that this person should have done better research.
        > Scrum is a technical key term of rugby, see here:
        >
        > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrum_%28in_sports%29
      • Jim.Hyslop
        ... Indeed. I ve posted a rebuttal on the Coolbits site: I d challenge the definition of scrum that dictionary.com uses. I have never heard that definition,
        Message 3 of 11 , Apr 4 7:27 AM
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          David H. wrote:
          > <snip>
          >
          > Not to mention that this person should have done better research.
          > Scrum is a technical key term of rugby, see here:
          >
          > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrum_%28in_sports%29
          Indeed.

          I've posted a rebuttal on the Coolbits site:

          "I'd challenge the definition of "scrum" that dictionary.com uses. I have
          never heard that definition, nor have I ever heard the word scrum used to
          mean "a fight" - I think the other authors who were cited meant to use the
          word "scrap". I checked three different dictionaries (Oxford, Webster's and
          Gage), and each of them basically said the same thing: "scrum" is an
          abbreviation of "scrummage", a term used in Rugby to indicate a specific
          play."

          --
          Jim Hyslop
          Senior Software Designer
          Leitch Technology International Inc. ( http://www.leitch.com )
          Columnist, C/C++ Users Journal ( http://www.cuj.com/experts )
        • mike.dwyer1@comcast.net
          YOU BAD!!!!!!!!! *^) -- Mike Dwyer I Keep six faithful serving-men Who serve me well and true: Their names are What and Where and When And How and Why and
          Message 4 of 11 , Apr 4 9:02 AM
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            YOU BAD!!!!!!!!!
            *^)
             
            --
            Mike Dwyer

            "I Keep six faithful serving-men
            Who serve me well and true:
            Their names are What and Where and When
            And How and Why and Who." - Kipling
             
            -------------- Original message --------------

            >
            > Does this definition lead to comments on software projects, like, "Oh
            > please Ms/Mr ScrumMaster, may I be the hooker in our Scrum?"
            >
            > Diana
            >
            > Diana Larsen
            > www.futureworksconsulting.com 503-288-3550
            >
            > Upcoming Workshop:
            > "The Secrets of Agile Teamwork: Beyond Technical Skills"
            > Presenters: Diana Larsen and Esther Derby
            > April 5-7, 2005
            >
            >
            > On Apr 3, 2005, at 11:06 PM, David H. wrote:
            >
            > >
            > >
            > > Not to mention that this person should have done better research.
            > > Scrum is a technical key term of rugby, see here:
            > >
            > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrum_%28in_sports%29
            >
            >
            >
            > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
            > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
            > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scrumdevelopment/
            >
            > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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            >
            >
            >
          • Deb
            Mike s definition, below, is a good one. So, does someone want to enlighten the readers of Coolbits as to why calling it Scrum makes total sense? deb (not a
            Message 5 of 11 , Apr 4 11:44 AM
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              Mike's definition, below, is a good one. So, does someone want to
              enlighten the readers of Coolbits as to why calling it Scrum makes
              total sense?

              deb
              (not a Hooker)

              --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Mike Cohn <mike@m...> wrote:
              > It comes from the original Takeuchi and Nonaka paper ("The New New
              Product
              > Development Game" in Harvard Business Review in January 1986). The
              key quote
              > is
              >
              > ³The Œrelay race¹ approach to product development may conflict with the
              > goals of maximum speed and flexibility. Instead a holistic or Œrugby¹
              > approach‹where a team tries to go the distance as a unit, passing
              the ball
              > back and forth‹may better serve today¹s competitive requirements.²
              >
              > It's not an acronym although it was once used as such in the TV show
              "Mad
              > About You." On that episode Barbara Feldon (of "Get Smart") was
              playing the
              > fictional tv character "Spy Girl." Since every spy needs a nemesis, Spy
              > Girl's was SCRUM--the Society for the Complete Ruination of Universal
              > Mankind.
              >
              > Which, I think, sums up our true goal here.
              >
              > --Mike
              >
              >
              > On 4/3/05 9:27 PM, "Deb" <deborah@h...> wrote:
              >
              > >
              > >
              > > Seemingly, a question in search of an answer, below.
              > > Anyone?
              > >
              > > "Why did someone name an agile method "scrum"? From Dictionary.com:
              > > scrum: A disordered or confused situation involving
              > > a number of people.
              > > That doesn't exactly make me want to embrace it for my development
              > > projects!"
              > >
              > > http://www.coolbits.nu/685.aspx
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@e...
              > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
              > > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@e...
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
            • Jim.Hyslop
              Done. http://www.coolbits.nu/685.aspx -- Jim Hyslop Senior Software Designer Leitch Technology International Inc. ( http://www.leitch.com ) Columnist, C/C++
              Message 6 of 11 , Apr 4 12:36 PM
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                Done.

                http://www.coolbits.nu/685.aspx

                --
                Jim Hyslop
                Senior Software Designer
                Leitch Technology International Inc. ( http://www.leitch.com )
                Columnist, C/C++ Users Journal ( http://www.cuj.com/experts )




                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Deb [mailto:deborah@...]
                > Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 2:45 PM
                > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Scrum: a silly name?
                >
                >
                >
                > Mike's definition, below, is a good one. So, does someone want to
                > enlighten the readers of Coolbits as to why calling it Scrum makes
                > total sense?
                >
                > deb
                > (not a Hooker)
                >
                > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Mike Cohn <mike@m...> wrote:
                > > It comes from the original Takeuchi and Nonaka paper ("The New New
                > Product
                > > Development Game" in Harvard Business Review in January 1986). The
                > key quote
                > > is
                > >
                > > ³The Œrelay race¹ approach to product development may
                > conflict with the
                > > goals of maximum speed and flexibility. Instead a holistic
                > or Œrugby¹
                > > approach‹where a team tries to go the distance as a unit, passing
                > the ball
                > > back and forth‹may better serve today¹s competitive requirements.²
                > >
                > > It's not an acronym although it was once used as such in the TV show
                > "Mad
                > > About You." On that episode Barbara Feldon (of "Get Smart") was
                > playing the
                > > fictional tv character "Spy Girl." Since every spy needs a
                > nemesis, Spy
                > > Girl's was SCRUM--the Society for the Complete Ruination of
                > Universal
                > > Mankind.
                > >
                > > Which, I think, sums up our true goal here.
                > >
                > > --Mike
                > >
                > >
                > > On 4/3/05 9:27 PM, "Deb" <deborah@h...> wrote:
                > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Seemingly, a question in search of an answer, below.
                > > > Anyone?
                > > >
                > > > "Why did someone name an agile method "scrum"? From
                > Dictionary.com:
                > > > scrum: A disordered or confused situation involving
                > > > a number of people.
                > > > That doesn't exactly make me want to embrace it for my development
                > > > projects!"
                > > >
                > > > http://www.coolbits.nu/685.aspx
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@e...
                > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                > > > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@e...
                > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
                > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Tobias Mayer
                ... Seemingly, a question in search of an answer.. Why did someone name an agile method scrum ? From Dictionary.com: scrum: A disordered or confused
                Message 7 of 11 , Apr 4 5:31 PM
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                  --- Deb wrote:
                  Seemingly, a question in search of an answer..
                  "Why did someone name an agile method "scrum"? From Dictionary.com:
                      scrum: A disordered or confused situation involving a number of people.
                  That doesn't exactly make me want to embrace it for my development projects!"
                   
                  --- Mike Cohn wrote:
                  It comes from the original Takeuchi and Nonaka paper ("The New New Product Development Game" in Harvard Business Review in January 1986). ...
                   
                  --- David H. wrote:
                  Not to mention that this person should have done better research. 
                  Scrum is a technical key term of rugby...
                   
                  ---------------
                  It is interesting to know where the name Scrum originates from, but why do we feel that this name needs justification?  Personally I like the above definition, quoted by Deb.  It sounds close to truth.  Most software projects are confused, disordered and somewhat chaotic.  In an Agile project that is where the creativity comes from.  And the resultant order (i.e. the product) emerges from this chaos - precisely because Agile processes recognize it and work with it, instead of against it. 
                   
                  I also like that it "doesn't exactly make me want to embrace it for my development projects!".  Good!  No methodology should be taken on because of its name.  Death March paths are no doubt strewn with cool-sounding adjectives such as "rational" and "unified" and "requirements-driven".
                   
                  Embrace "Scrum", in all its scrappy, scummy, crumby glory!
                   
                  Tobias
                   
                • Mike Cohn
                  In his annual April Fool¹s Day column in Software Development magazine last year Scott Ambler predicted that in 10 years Ken would come to his senses and
                  Message 8 of 11 , Apr 4 6:22 PM
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                    Re: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum: a silly name? In his annual April Fool’s Day column in Software Development magazine last year Scott Ambler predicted that in 10 years Ken would come to his senses and realize that naming a process after a little-known sports term was hampering adoption and that he’d rename the process “Cricket.”

                    -Mike

                    On 4/4/05 6:31 PM, "Tobias Mayer" <tobyanon@...> wrote:

                    --- Deb wrote:
                    Seemingly, a question in search of an answer..
                    "Why did someone name an agile method "scrum"? From Dictionary.com:
                        scrum: A disordered or confused situation involving a number of people.
                    That doesn't exactly make me want to embrace it for my development projects!"
                     
                    --- Mike Cohn wrote:
                    It comes from the original Takeuchi and Nonaka paper ("The New New Product Development Game" in Harvard Business Review in January 1986). ...
                     
                    --- David H. wrote:
                    Not to mention that this person should have done better research.  
                    Scrum is a technical key term of rugby...
                     
                    ---------------
                    It is interesting to know where the name Scrum originates from, but why do we feel that this name needs justification?  Personally I like the above definition, quoted by Deb.  It sounds close to truth.  Most software projects are confused, disordered and somewhat chaotic.  In an Agile project that is where the creativity comes from.  And the resultant order (i.e. the product) emerges from this chaos - precisely because Agile processes recognize it and work with it, instead of against it.  
                     
                    I also like that it "doesn't exactly make me want to embrace it for my development projects!".  Good!  No methodology should be taken on because of its name.  Death March paths are no doubt strewn with cool-sounding adjectives such as "rational" and "unified" and "requirements-driven".
                     
                    Embrace "Scrum", in all its scrappy, scummy, crumby glory!
                     
                    Tobias
                     <mailto:tobias@...>  


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