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RE: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Scrum + Unified Process = ?

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  • mike.dwyer1@comcast.net
    You mean to say there is another way to do this? 8^) -- Mike Dwyer I Keep six faithful serving-men Who serve me well and true: Their names are What and Where
    Message 1 of 16 , Feb 15, 2005
      You mean to say there is another way to do this?
      8^)
       
      --
      Mike Dwyer

      "I Keep six faithful serving-men
      Who serve me well and true:
      Their names are What and Where and When
      And How and Why and Who." - Kipling
       
      -------------- Original message --------------

      But wait�. to be precise, that would be �Scrum, the Agile Trojan Horse�, known to all in this list,

      which, by the way, has  been shown its face in many projects around the world for about 10+ years.

       

      I mean, any good Scrum practitioner has used Scrum in SkunkWorks mode, at least once, to

      overshadow the �official method� of the organization.

       

      Imagine a conversation among RUP developers one day.  

       

      D1, a RUP-head will say:

       

                  D1 Aren�t we in elaboration?  Shouldn�t we be doing the tasks and artifacts for elaboration

      instead of going back to those in inception or jumping into the ones in construction?

       

      Then developer D2, the Scrum-man, will respond:

       

                  D2.  I am just doing what we agreed to do in the last Daily Scrum � that�s what we

      *need to do* know.  Let�s do what the team needs to do.

       

      And the phases will be forgotten into oblivion,

       

      - mb

       

       


      From: Mike Beedle [mailto:beedlem@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 10:51 AM
      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Scrum + Unified Process = ?

       

      � a Trojan horse or sorts,

       

      mb

       


      From: Ken Schwaber [mailto:ken.schwaber@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 11:00 AM
      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Scrum + Unified Process = ?

       

      If you consider that Scrum is a self-enabling revolution, it becomes a very difficult guest to contain once invited into the house.

      Ken

       

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Victor Szalvay [mailto:victor@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 11:26 AM
      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Scrum + Unified Process = ?

       


      When I heard about this article last week, I was curious if IBM would
      try to portray Scrum as an "add-on" to RUP, or if they would introduce
      Scrum as a standalone process with which RUP
      disciplines/workflows(whatever they call them now) can be incorporated
      per the discretion of the team.  In other words, is RUP presented as
      the container and Scrum the contents, or is Scrum presented as the
      container process with RUP workflows as (potential contents). 

      Although at the beginning of the article they seem to give
      self-organization and "Scrum is a management-wrapper" lip service, the
      author seems to forget all of that by the conclusion which reads:

      "In general, RUP satisfies organizational demands by bringing a
      structured and proven process framework to the table, and Scrum
      patterns can add additional dynamics to the project."

      I'd argue that Scrum, by virtue of it's foundational requirement for
      team self-organization and empirical process, can never be contained
      or absorbed by another process that dictates defined processes, like
      engineering practices.  Can RUP practices be used with Scrum?  Of
      course!  Any team that chooses to do RUP workflows because that's what
      works for them, is free to do so under Scrum's self-organization.  In
      this case, Scrum is the parent-process, not a subordinate process.

      But it can't work the other way around: if we are doing RUP our world
      of engineering practices are limited to the workflows defined in the
      RUP.  That limit flatly violates core Scrum principles, so you can't
      add Scrum onto a process like the RUP as a subordinate, secondary
      process.

      Actually, if IBM treats Scrum as a sanctioned add-on to RUP, and Scrum
      allows teams to pick and choose their own engineering practices,
      doesn't RUP then become "anything the team wants to do".   I doubt IBM
      would want to take it that far. 

      Any thoughts?

      -- Victor Szalvay
      http://danube.com/blog/victorszalvay

      --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com , " Mike Cohn " <mike@m...>
      wrote:
      > FYI:
      >
      > Here's a link to an article officially out tomorrow in the "Rational
      Edge"
      > eMagazine. According to its own teaser, the article "introduces the
      agile
      > software development process known as Scrum. The author presents
      techniques
      > on how software development teams can add Scrum ideas to an
      existing RUP
      > environment."
      >

      >
      >
      http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/rational/lib
      rary/feb05/pollice/krebs/

      >

      >
      > -- Mike Cohn
      >
      > Author of User Stories Applied for Agile Software Development
      >
      >  <http://www.mountaingoatsoftware.com/> www.mountaingoatsoftware.com





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