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Re: [scrumdevelopment] RUP XP Plug-In

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  • Ron Jeffries
    ... Yes. I ve spent a lot of time in the past few years digging into such claims and finding out what they didn t do. The problem occurs in teams who think
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 7 8:38 AM
      On Monday, October 7, 2002, at 11:10:28 AM, Mike Cohn wrote:

      > My comment that this will be "bad for XP" was because I think it will
      > cause lots of companies to experiment with XP and find that it doesn't
      > work for them. For example, a company may decide it likes Simple Design
      > and Refactoring but not TDD or Pair Programming. They'll try that and
      > probably finds it degenerates into hacking. They'll then spread the word
      > that XP didn't work "when we tried it." One of my big concerns is that
      > we're entering a period where we're going to hear lots of failure
      > stories about people who "tried" agile methods but didn't really try
      > them:

      > --"We did XP except that silly testing stuff, the pair programming and
      > the on-site customer and in the end our product wasn't what the market
      > wanted and it was buggy!"
      > --"We tried Scrum except for those dumb daily meetings and after two
      > six-month long sprints our product wasn't very good."
      > --"We left the prototyping out of DSDM and it didn't work for us."

      Yes. I've spent a lot of time in the past few years digging into such
      claims and finding out what they didn't do.

      The problem occurs in teams who think they are really trying the new
      thing. I'm not sure that RUP exacerbates that problem: in fact, I
      think it possible that putting some RUP phases over a half-bun XP or
      Scrum project might detect problems /sooner/ than if there were no
      command and control guys around.

      > There's a discontinuity in one's thinking between agile and plan-driven
      > processes and I think new adoptees either need to "get it" or they need
      > to try agile "by the book" and do everything prescribed exactly as
      > prescribed until they do get it. Because RUP is such a "pick what you
      > need" tool/methodology it seems clear that users of the plugin will
      > bring that mindset to it and some will undoubtedly pick some horrible
      > combinations of XP + their current process.

      I would prefer that as well. We've tried, and will continue to try, to
      make the plug-in clear on that point, and to educate Rational further
      as well. It is true that they come from a big systems, command and
      control, defined kind of thinking, so it's hard for them. It is also
      true that good things have come from that thinking as well as some not
      so good things.

      I don't think RUP is the devil. I think chaos is the devil.

      > You're right though--if someone eventually gets XP (any agile process)
      > after having done it by faith (but completely) they will become very
      > firm believers. And I'm sure the plugin will lead to that type of
      > experience for many new XP converts. My comment was about those who use
      > the plugin but order from it as though it were a restaurant menu.

      Yes. It could happen. It will happen. If there's to be a plug-in, I
      want it to be as clear as possible. That's why I reluctantly agreed to
      be a part of it, and why I so badly want the community's input.

      Ron Jeffries
      Discontinue reading if rash, irritation, redness, or swelling develops.
      Especially irritation.
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