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  • Ken Schwaber
    Dick Farris, the CTO of Primavera, recently published a very pro-Agile piece in Primavera s magazine:
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 18, 2005
      Dick Farris, the CTO of Primavera, recently published a very pro-Agile
      piece in Primavera's magazine:
      http://www.evolve.com/files/magazine/PrimaveraMagazine_122304.pdf
      Ken
    • David Laffineuse
      Ken, I was a bit surprised to read that Dick Farris saw a significant role for tools like Primavera or even a strong project management function in agile
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 18, 2005
        Ken,

        I was a bit surprised to read that Dick Farris saw a significant role
        for tools like Primavera or even a strong project management function
        in agile projects. In Scrum for instance, my understanding was that
        the plan took the form of a sprint backlog that was managed and
        followed by a self-organizing team. Does the function of project
        manager apply in this model as Dick Farris implies it does? On Scrum
        projects, do you see project managers developing WBS, project
        networks, task level estimates, risk management plans, etc. for 30-day
        sprints? Just trying to understanding if Primavera is trying to piggy
        back on the Agile bandwagon or if there is truly a place for heavy
        weight project management in Scrum projects.

        David.


        On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 01:40:34 -0000, Ken Schwaber
        <ken.schwaber@...> wrote:
        >
        > Dick Farris, the CTO of Primavera, recently published a very pro-Agile
        > piece in Primavera's magazine:
        > http://www.evolve.com/files/magazine/PrimaveraMagazine_122304.pdf
        > Ken
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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        >
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      • Tobias Mayer
        I was wondering the same thing. To me Dick Farris s column reads: there s this cute new puppy called Agile that we found. He can do a few clever tricks, and
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 18, 2005
          I was wondering the same thing.  To me Dick Farris's column reads: "there's this cute new puppy called Agile that we found.  He can do a few clever tricks, and everyone loves him, but he seemed rather lost so we decided to step in and give him a home.  Cute little guy; he is safe with us now.  You don't have to worry about him any more - our people will take good care of him".
          Tobias

          David Laffineuse <laffineuse@...> wrote:
          Ken,

          I was a bit surprised to read that Dick Farris saw a significant role
          for tools like Primavera or even a strong project management function
          in agile projects.  In Scrum for instance, my understanding was that
          the plan took the form of a sprint backlog that was managed and
          followed by a self-organizing team.  Does the function of project
          manager apply in this model as Dick Farris implies it does?  On Scrum
          projects, do you see project managers developing WBS, project
          networks, task level estimates, risk management plans, etc. for 30-day
          sprints?  Just trying to understanding if Primavera is trying to piggy
          back on the Agile bandwagon or if there is truly a place for heavy
          weight project management in Scrum projects.

          David.


          On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 01:40:34 -0000, Ken Schwaber
          <ken.schwaber@...> wrote:

          >  Dick Farris, the CTO of Primavera, recently published a very pro-Agile
          >  piece in Primavera's magazine:
          http://www.evolve.com/files/magazine/PrimaveraMagazine_122304.pdf
          >  Ken




          >
          >  To Post a message, send it to:   scrumdevelopment@...
          >  To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
          > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
          >

          >  ________________________________
          >  Yahoo! Groups Links

          > To visit your group on the web, go to:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scrumdevelopment/
          >  
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >  
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


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        • Ken Schwaber
          I ve worked with Primavera and some of their customers on this version of their product. They have done a very lightweight job of it, addressing two somewhat
          Message 4 of 6 , Jan 19, 2005
            I've worked with Primavera and some of their customers on this version of their product. They have done a very lightweight job of it, addressing two somewhat incompatible needs:
            1. Providing a tool that the product owner manages product backlog on, and on which the team decomposes the product backlog into tasks for a Sprint backlog and then manages themselves.
            2. Providing the structure within their tool for very detailed metrics and reporting from which a company can manage itself.  Unfortunately, and somewhat contradictorily, to the estimated time remaining, many organizations need to capture actual time worked by category. This is then fed into financial systems for expense and capitalization and can spell the difference between a profitable month or a disaster. So this puts actuals and estimates on the same form, and the temptation to colmpare them will be another challenge that the Scrummaster will have to help people in the company resist.
             
            So, I'm a little conflicted. Primavera offers a great tool for the organization that is really embedding Scrum into itself and making it part of the business. But, I really love the 3x5 cards and how they help a team coalesce.
             
            Life is full of conflicts,
            Ken
            -----Original Message-----
            From: Tobias Mayer [mailto:tobyanon@...]
            Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 12:04 AM
            To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Check it out

            I was wondering the same thing.  To me Dick Farris's column reads: "there's this cute new puppy called Agile that we found.  He can do a few clever tricks, and everyone loves him, but he seemed rather lost so we decided to step in and give him a home.  Cute little guy; he is safe with us now.  You don't have to worry about him any more - our people will take good care of him".
            Tobias

            David Laffineuse <laffineuse@...> wrote:
            Ken,

            I was a bit surprised to read that Dick Farris saw a significant role
            for tools like Primavera or even a strong project management function
            in agile projects.  In Scrum for instance, my understanding was that
            the plan took the form of a sprint backlog that was managed and
            followed by a self-organizing team.  Does the function of project
            manager apply in this model as Dick Farris implies it does?  On Scrum
            projects, do you see project managers developing WBS, project
            networks, task level estimates, risk management plans, etc. for 30-day
            sprints?  Just trying to understanding if Primavera is trying to piggy
            back on the Agile bandwagon or if there is truly a place for heavy
            weight project management in Scrum projects.

            David.


            On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 01:40:34 -0000, Ken Schwaber
            <ken.schwaber@...> wrote:

            >  Dick Farris, the CTO of Primavera, recently published a very pro-Agile
            >  piece in Primavera's magazine:
            http://www.evolve.com/files/magazine/PrimaveraMagazine_122304.pdf
            >  Ken




            >
            >  To Post a message, send it to:   scrumdevelopment@...
            >  To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
            > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
            >

            >  ________________________________
            >  Yahoo! Groups Links

            > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scrumdevelopment/
            >  
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >  
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


            To Post a message, send it to:   scrumdevelopment@...
            To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...




            To Post a message, send it to:   scrumdevelopment@...
            To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...


          • Phlip
            ... I thought that Job Cost Accounting wasn t recommendable in general... -- Phlip
            Message 5 of 6 , Jan 19, 2005
              Ken Schwaber wrote:

              > 2. Providing the structure within their tool for very detailed metrics and
              > reporting from which a company can manage itself. Unfortunately, and
              > somewhat contradictorily, to the estimated time remaining, many
              > organizations need to capture actual time worked by category. This is then
              > fed into financial systems for expense and capitalization and can spell the
              > difference between a profitable month or a disaster. So this puts actuals
              > and estimates on the same form, and the temptation to colmpare them will be
              > another challenge that the Scrummaster will have to help people in the
              > company resist.

              I thought that Job Cost Accounting wasn't recommendable in general...

              --
              Phlip
            • Ken Schwaber
              If you are charging back your developers for various types of customer software development work, as well as internal infrastructure development, it s pretty
              Message 6 of 6 , Jan 19, 2005
                If you are charging back your developers for various types of customer
                software development work, as well as internal infrastructure development,
                it's pretty necessary for figuring out taxes and financial statement.
                Ken

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Phlip [mailto:phlip2005@...]
                Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 8:24 AM
                To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Check it out



                Ken Schwaber wrote:

                > 2. Providing the structure within their tool for very detailed metrics and
                > reporting from which a company can manage itself. Unfortunately, and
                > somewhat contradictorily, to the estimated time remaining, many
                > organizations need to capture actual time worked by category. This is then
                > fed into financial systems for expense and capitalization and can spell
                the
                > difference between a profitable month or a disaster. So this puts actuals
                > and estimates on the same form, and the temptation to colmpare them will
                be
                > another challenge that the Scrummaster will have to help people in the
                > company resist.

                I thought that Job Cost Accounting wasn't recommendable in general...

                --
                Phlip


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