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Waterfall Rules (Re: No one believes in waterfall)

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  • woynam
    Bah! Waterfall rules, and is proudly supported by a who s-who of software development luminaries, including Ken Schwaber, Mike Cohn, Ron Jeffries, Robert
    Message 1 of 17 , Jul 26 7:38 AM
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      Bah! Waterfall rules, and is proudly supported by a who's-who of software development luminaries, including Ken Schwaber, Mike Cohn, Ron Jeffries, Robert Martin, Mary Poppendieck, Jim Highsmith, Ward Cunningham, Alistair Cockburn, Kent Beck, Michael Feathers, Scott Ambler, and others!

      http://www.waterfall2006.com/

      Happy Friday.

      Mark


      --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Ron Lichty <RonLichty@...> wrote:
      >
      > The 2013 Study of Product Team Performance is out. You may have taken the survey earlier this year. The results are not quite as across-the-board startling as last year's study - that would have been hard to match - but it offers individual results that are every bit as eye-opening, plus overall being quite revealing...
      >
      > ...and there's one result with respect to waterfall and agile that I did not expect:
      >
      > It came in response to two questions we asked:
      > ▪ what methodology does your team use?
      > ▪ what method do you associate with increased profits?
      >
      > The cross-correlation of responses to those two questions revealed a startling result:
      > ▪ each self-identified methodology group - with the exception of those using waterfall - associated increased profits with the method their group currently uses.
      >
      > But the data showed those groups using waterfall believe that any of the methods other than waterfall would make their product more profitable.
      >
      > I've been blogging about the results (and am continuing to), including two posts on this waterfall/agile result, at:
      > http://ronlichty.blogspot.com/
      > There are links there to the study itself.
      >
      > Also links there to my posts about last year's study, which had startled me in that it named just five things that:
      > ▪ if you don't do them, you have only a 2% chance of high level team performance
      > ▪ if you do all of them, you have a 67% likelihood of high level team performance
      > I thought that was pretty remarkable and was what made me want to be part of coauthoring this year's study.
      >
      > Ron
      >
      >
      > Ron Lichty
      > 155 Forest Side Avenue
      > San Francisco, CA 94127
      > 415-564-2697
      > Email: RonLichty@...
      > Ron Lichty Consulting, Inc.: Transforming chaos to clarity in software development for two decades
      > http://www.ronlichty.com
      > co-author, Managing the Unmanageable: Rules, Tools, and Insights for Managing Software People and Teams
      > www.ManagingTheUnmanageable.net
      >
    • Ron Jeffries
      And be sure to attend the Waterfall 2006 conference, coming soon! R ... Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com Sometimes you just have to stop holding on with both
      Message 2 of 17 , Jul 26 9:47 AM
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        And be sure to attend the Waterfall 2006 conference, coming soon!
        R
        On Jul 26, 2013, at 10:38 AM, "woynam" <woyna@...> wrote:

        Bah! Waterfall rules, and is proudly supported by a who's-who of software development luminaries, including Ken Schwaber, Mike Cohn, Ron Jeffries, Robert Martin, Mary Poppendieck, Jim Highsmith, Ward Cunningham, Alistair Cockburn, Kent Beck, Michael Feathers, Scott Ambler, and others!

           http://www.waterfall2006.com/

        Sometimes you just have to stop holding on with both hands, both feet, and your tail, to get someplace better. 
        Of course you might plummet to the earth and die, but probably not: you were made for this.

      • Andrew Burrows
        It ll never happen... Sadly.
        Message 3 of 17 , Jul 26 9:57 AM
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          It'll never happen...

          Sadly.


          On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@...> wrote:
           

          And be sure to attend the Waterfall 2006 conference, coming soon!

          R

          On Jul 26, 2013, at 10:38 AM, "woynam" <woyna@...> wrote:

          Bah! Waterfall rules, and is proudly supported by a who's-who of software development luminaries, including Ken Schwaber, Mike Cohn, Ron Jeffries, Robert Martin, Mary Poppendieck, Jim Highsmith, Ward Cunningham, Alistair Cockburn, Kent Beck, Michael Feathers, Scott Ambler, and others!

             http://www.waterfall2006.com/

          Sometimes you just have to stop holding on with both hands, both feet, and your tail, to get someplace better. 
          Of course you might plummet to the earth and die, but probably not: you were made for this.


        • steveropa
          well, its just that we had a few delays in our project, but according to the latest estimates from the PMO, the 2006 conference is on schedule for q3 Sent from
          Message 4 of 17 , Jul 26 10:14 AM
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            well, its just that we had a few delays in our project, but according to the latest estimates from the PMO, the 2006 conference is on schedule for q3
             
            Sent from Windows Mail
             
            From: Ron Jeffries
            Sent: ‎Friday‎, ‎July‎ ‎26‎, ‎2013 ‎10‎:‎47‎ ‎AM
            To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
             
             

            And be sure to attend the Waterfall 2006 conference, coming soon!

            R
            On Jul 26, 2013, at 10:38 AM, "woynam" <woyna@...> wrote:

            Bah! Waterfall rules, and is proudly supported by a who's-who of software development luminaries, including Ken Schwaber, Mike Cohn, Ron Jeffries, Robert Martin, Mary Poppendieck, Jim Highsmith, Ward Cunningham, Alistair Cockburn, Kent Beck, Michael Feathers, Scott Ambler, and others!

               http://www.waterfall2006.com/

            Sometimes you just have to stop holding on with both hands, both feet, and your tail, to get someplace better. 
            Of course you might plummet to the earth and die, but probably not: you were made for this.

             

          • woynam
            Lol! We just may have to cancel the conference, and start planning the Waterfall 2014 Conference, which will take place in 2019.
            Message 5 of 17 , Jul 26 12:44 PM
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              Lol! We just may have to cancel the conference, and start planning the Waterfall 2014 Conference, which will take place in 2019.

              --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, <steveropa@...> wrote:
              >
              > well, its just that we had a few delays in our project, but according to the latest estimates from the PMO, the 2006 conference is on schedule for q3
              >
              >
              >
              > Sent from Windows Mail
              >
              >
              >
              > From: Ron Jeffries
              > Sent: ‎Friday‎, ‎July‎ ‎26‎, ‎2013 ‎10‎:‎47‎ ‎AM
              > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > And be sure to attend the Waterfall 2006 conference, coming soon!
              >
              > R
              >
              >
              > On Jul 26, 2013, at 10:38 AM, "woynam" <woyna@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Bah! Waterfall rules, and is proudly supported by a who's-who of software development luminaries, including Ken Schwaber, Mike Cohn, Ron Jeffries, Robert Martin, Mary Poppendieck, Jim Highsmith, Ward Cunningham, Alistair Cockburn, Kent Beck, Michael Feathers, Scott Ambler, and others!
              >
              > http://www.waterfall2006.com/
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Ron Jeffries
              > www.XProgramming.com
              > Sometimes you just have to stop holding on with both hands, both feet, and your tail, to get someplace better.
              >
              > Of course you might plummet to the earth and die, but probably not: you were made for this.
              >
            • Markus Gaertner
              It s 80% planned! Best Markus ... -- Dipl.-Inform. Markus Gärtner Author of ATDD by Example - A Practical Guide to Acceptance Test-Driven Development
              Message 6 of 17 , Jul 26 1:09 PM
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                It's 80% planned!

                Best
                Markus


                On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@...> wrote:


                And be sure to attend the Waterfall 2006 conference, coming soon!
                R

                On Jul 26, 2013, at 10:38 AM, "woynam" <woyna@...> wrote:

                Bah! Waterfall rules, and is proudly supported by a who's-who of software development luminaries, including Ken Schwaber, Mike Cohn, Ron Jeffries, Robert Martin, Mary Poppendieck, Jim Highsmith, Ward Cunningham, Alistair Cockburn, Kent Beck, Michael Feathers, Scott Ambler, and others!

                   http://www.waterfall2006.com/

                Sometimes you just have to stop holding on with both hands, both feet, and your tail, to get someplace better. 
                Of course you might plummet to the earth and die, but probably not: you were made for this.






                --
                Dipl.-Inform. Markus Gärtner
                Author of ATDD by Example - A Practical Guide to Acceptance Test-Driven Development
              • Ron Jeffries
                We cannot cancel Waterfall 2006. Our sunk costs are too high to write off. ... Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com There s no word for accountability in Finnish.
                Message 7 of 17 , Jul 26 2:06 PM
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                  We cannot cancel Waterfall 2006. Our sunk costs are too high to write off.

                  On Jul 26, 2013, at 3:44 PM, "woynam" <woyna@...> wrote:

                  Lol! We just may have to cancel the conference, and start planning the Waterfall 2014 Conference, which will take place in 2019.


                  Ron Jeffries
                  www.XProgramming.com
                  There's no word for accountability in Finnish. 
                  Accountability is something that is left when responsibility has been subtracted. 
                  --Pasi Sahlberg

                • Adrian Howard
                  ... Can t we just rename Waterfall 2006 to Waterfall 2015? Adrian
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jul 26 7:42 PM
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                    On 26 July 2013 22:06, Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@...> wrote:
                    We cannot cancel Waterfall 2006. Our sunk costs are too high to write off.

                    Can't we just rename Waterfall 2006 to Waterfall 2015?

                    Adrian
                  • Ron Jeffries
                    Adrian, ... No. Management is still tracking W2006. If it dropped off the charts and some new project appeared, it would confuse everyone. We are committed to
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jul 27 4:04 AM
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                      Adrian,

                      On Jul 26, 2013, at 10:42 PM, Adrian Howard <adrianh@...> wrote:

                      Can't we just rename Waterfall 2006 to Waterfall 2015?

                      No. Management is still tracking W2006. If it dropped off the charts and some new project appeared, it would confuse everyone. We are committed to this project and we will complete it.

                      Ron Jeffries
                      If it is more than you need, it is waste. -- Andy Seidl

                    • Jim
                      I was almost duped! Settling back from the edge of my seat, I LMAO back to a comfortable slouch! Love this satirical website! And the study is priceless in
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jul 27 11:48 AM
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                        I was almost duped!
                        Settling back from the edge of my seat, I LMAO back to a comfortable slouch! Love this satirical website! And the study is priceless in arming us agilist evangelists! Thanks Mark, et. al.!

                        Jim Bo
                        "Change is inevitable. Growth is optional. Waste is waterfall."

                        --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "woynam" <woyna@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > Bah! Waterfall rules, and is proudly supported by a who's-who of software development luminaries, including Ken Schwaber, Mike Cohn, Ron Jeffries, Robert Martin, Mary Poppendieck, Jim Highsmith, Ward Cunningham, Alistair Cockburn, Kent Beck, Michael Feathers, Scott Ambler, and others!
                        >
                        > http://www.waterfall2006.com/
                        >
                        > Happy Friday.
                        >
                        > Mark
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Ron Lichty <RonLichty@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > The 2013 Study of Product Team Performance is out. You may have taken the survey earlier this year. The results are not quite as across-the-board startling as last year's study - that would have been hard to match - but it offers individual results that are every bit as eye-opening, plus overall being quite revealing...
                        > >
                        > > ...and there's one result with respect to waterfall and agile that I did not expect:
                        > >
                        > > It came in response to two questions we asked:
                        > > ▪ what methodology does your team use?
                        > > ▪ what method do you associate with increased profits?
                        > >
                        > > The cross-correlation of responses to those two questions revealed a startling result:
                        > > ▪ each self-identified methodology group - with the exception of those using waterfall - associated increased profits with the method their group currently uses.
                        > >
                        > > But the data showed those groups using waterfall believe that any of the methods other than waterfall would make their product more profitable.
                        > >
                        > > I've been blogging about the results (and am continuing to), including two posts on this waterfall/agile result, at:
                        > > http://ronlichty.blogspot.com/
                        > > There are links there to the study itself.
                        > >
                        > > Also links there to my posts about last year's study, which had startled me in that it named just five things that:
                        > > ▪ if you don't do them, you have only a 2% chance of high level team performance
                        > > ▪ if you do all of them, you have a 67% likelihood of high level team performance
                        > > I thought that was pretty remarkable and was what made me want to be part of coauthoring this year's study.
                        > >
                        > > Ron
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Ron Lichty
                        > > 155 Forest Side Avenue
                        > > San Francisco, CA 94127
                        > > 415-564-2697
                        > > Email: RonLichty@
                        > > Ron Lichty Consulting, Inc.: Transforming chaos to clarity in software development for two decades
                        > > http://www.ronlichty.com
                        > > co-author, Managing the Unmanageable: Rules, Tools, and Insights for Managing Software People and Teams
                        > > www.ManagingTheUnmanageable.net
                        > >
                        >
                      • Michael James
                        Let s try adding more people, I mean resources, to the effort. --mj (Michael)
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jul 29 5:44 PM
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                          Let's try adding more people, I mean resources, to the effort.

                          --mj
                          (Michael)

                          On Jul 27, 2013, at 12:57 AM, Andrew Burrows <mrajburrows@...> wrote:

                           

                          It'll never happen...

                          Sadly.


                          On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@...> wrote:
                           

                          And be sure to attend the Waterfall 2006 conference, coming soon!

                          R

                          On Jul 26, 2013, at 10:38 AM, "woynam" <woyna@...> wrote:

                          Bah! Waterfall rules, and is proudly supported by a who's-who of software development luminaries, including Ken Schwaber, Mike Cohn, Ron Jeffries, Robert Martin, Mary Poppendieck, Jim Highsmith, Ward Cunningham, Alistair Cockburn, Kent Beck, Michael Feathers, Scott Ambler, and others!

                             http://www.waterfall2006.com/

                          Sometimes you just have to stop holding on with both hands, both feet, and your tail, to get someplace better. 
                          Of course you might plummet to the earth and die, but probably not: you were made for this.





                        • Jim Schiel
                          Sure! I ve got resources only about 90% utilized. I m sure we can get another 10% or 15% out of them. Sent from my iPhone
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jul 29 6:04 PM
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                            Sure! I've got resources only about 90% utilized. I'm sure we can get another 10% or 15% out of them. 

                            Sent from my iPhone

                            On Jul 29, 2013, at 8:44 PM, Michael James <mj4scrum@...> wrote:

                             

                            Let's try adding more people, I mean resources, to the effort.


                            --mj
                            (Michael)

                            On Jul 27, 2013, at 12:57 AM, Andrew Burrows <mrajburrows@...> wrote:

                             

                            It'll never happen...

                            Sadly.


                            On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@...> wrote:
                             

                            And be sure to attend the Waterfall 2006 conference, coming soon!

                            R

                            On Jul 26, 2013, at 10:38 AM, "woynam" <woyna@...> wrote:

                            Bah! Waterfall rules, and is proudly supported by a who's-who of software development luminaries, including Ken Schwaber, Mike Cohn, Ron Jeffries, Robert Martin, Mary Poppendieck, Jim Highsmith, Ward Cunningham, Alistair Cockburn, Kent Beck, Michael Feathers, Scott Ambler, and others!

                               http://www.waterfall2006.com/

                            Sometimes you just have to stop holding on with both hands, both feet, and your tail, to get someplace better. 
                            Of course you might plummet to the earth and die, but probably not: you were made for this.





                          • Ron Jeffries
                            Absolutely. Just whip those ponies harder! ... Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com I have two cats, and a big house full of cat stuff. The cats fight and divide
                            Message 13 of 17 , Jul 29 7:20 PM
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                              Absolutely. Just whip those ponies harder!

                              On Jul 29, 2013, at 9:04 PM, Jim Schiel <schiel@...> wrote:

                              Sure! I've got resources only about 90% utilized. I'm sure we can get another 10% or 15% out of them. 


                              Ron Jeffries
                              I have two cats, and a big house full of cat stuff. 
                              The cats fight and divide up the house, messing up their own lives. 
                              Nice work cats. 
                              Meow.

                            • Stephen Bobick
                              there s plenty of similar jokes about agile floating around... just sayin
                              Message 14 of 17 , Jul 29 7:22 PM
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                                there's plenty of similar jokes about agile floating around... just sayin'

                                On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 7:20 PM, Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@...> wrote:
                                 

                                Absolutely. Just whip those ponies harder!


                                On Jul 29, 2013, at 9:04 PM, Jim Schiel <schiel@...> wrote:

                                Sure! I've got resources only about 90% utilized. I'm sure we can get another 10% or 15% out of them. 


                                Ron Jeffries
                                I have two cats, and a big house full of cat stuff. 
                                The cats fight and divide up the house, messing up their own lives. 
                                Nice work cats. 
                                Meow.


                              • Ron Jeffries
                                Stephen, ... Yes, but Agile worked once and waterfall never has. Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com I have two cats, and a big house full of cat stuff. The cats
                                Message 15 of 17 , Jul 29 7:32 PM
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                                  Stephen,

                                  On Jul 29, 2013, at 10:22 PM, Stephen Bobick <sbobick2@...> wrote:

                                  there's plenty of similar jokes about agile floating around... just sayin'

                                  Yes, but Agile worked once and waterfall never has.

                                  Ron Jeffries
                                  I have two cats, and a big house full of cat stuff. 
                                  The cats fight and divide up the house, messing up their own lives. 
                                  Nice work cats. 
                                  Meow.

                                • Stephen Bobick
                                  and when it fails the agilist inevitably invokes the Agilist version of No True Scotsman ...
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Jul 29 7:39 PM
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                                    and when it fails the agilist inevitably invokes the Agilist version of No True Scotsman  ...

                                    On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 7:32 PM, Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@...> wrote:
                                     

                                    Stephen,


                                    On Jul 29, 2013, at 10:22 PM, Stephen Bobick <sbobick2@...> wrote:

                                    there's plenty of similar jokes about agile floating around... just sayin'

                                    Yes, but Agile worked once and waterfall never has.


                                    Ron Jeffries
                                    I have two cats, and a big house full of cat stuff. 
                                    The cats fight and divide up the house, messing up their own lives. 
                                    Nice work cats. 
                                    Meow.


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