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Re: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum and/vs. Continuous integration and development

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  • Cass Dalton
    My guess is that they were suggesting that you can JUST take the agile technical practice of continuous integration instead of going full agile and still get
    Message 1 of 9 , Jul 11 10:45 AM
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      My guess is that they were suggesting that you can JUST take the agile technical practice of continuous integration instead of going full agile and still get some benefit (which is true).  They also may have heard someone say that and assume that they were alternatives to each other.
      Continuous integration is a technical practice used by many agile teams to help them be more agile and reduce integration risk.


      On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 1:23 PM, Pito Salas <pitosalas@...> wrote:
       

      I was talking to someone today who was making the argument that continuous integration and development were 'alternatives' to agile and scrum. I would have thought that they are complementary, that you can run your development and project with agile or scrum or a variant and elect to embrace continuous integration and deployment.

      Are there any good references or articles that someone can point to which address this question?


    • Kevin Callahan
      Hi Pito, I think it s a differentiation of abstraction between why/how/what. As I understand it, CI is an engineering practice that I would in this context
      Message 2 of 9 , Jul 11 10:53 AM
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        Hi Pito,

        I think it's a differentiation of abstraction between why/how/what.

        As I understand it, CI is an engineering practice that I would in this context classify as a "what." Scrum is a process that I would classify as a "how." Agile is so loosely defined that it is applied to all 3 contexts, though again personally, I use it as a why, a set of beliefs about the world and how we interact in it.

        So I agree with you that they are not alternatives as it's a bit like arguing the floors of a multi-story building are not the same; they cannot be.

        Hope that helps,

        -k

        On Jul 11, 2013, at 1:23 PM, Pito Salas wrote:

         

        I was talking to someone today who was making the argument that continuous integration and development were 'alternatives' to agile and scrum. I would have thought that they are complementary, that you can run your development and project with agile or scrum or a variant and elect to embrace continuous integration and deployment.

        Are there any good references or articles that someone can point to which address this question?



        Kevin Callahan
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      • George Dinwiddie
        Pito, ... Checking https://www.google.com/search?q=scrum+ continuous+integration shows that a lot of people are using continuous integration as part of their
        Message 3 of 9 , Jul 11 1:13 PM
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          Pito,

          On 7/11/13 1:23 PM, Pito Salas wrote:
          >
          >
          > I was talking to someone today who was making the argument that
          > continuous integration and development were 'alternatives' to agile and
          > scrum. I would have thought that they are complementary, that you can
          > run your development and project with agile or scrum or a variant and
          > elect to embrace continuous integration and deployment.
          >
          > Are there any good references or articles that someone can point to
          > which address this question?

          Checking https://www.google.com/search?q=scrum+"continuous+integration"
          shows that a lot of people are using continuous integration as part of
          their Scrum practice.

          - George

          --
          Want to speak at AgileDC October 8, 2013? http://agiledc.org/speak/
          ----------------------------------------------------------------------
          * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
          Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
          Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
          ----------------------------------------------------------------------
        • Kevin Johnston
          Great answer Adam Sroka, continuous integration allows a team to find integration issues fast so should reduce the risk of building something which does not
          Message 4 of 9 , Jul 11 1:33 PM
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            Great answer Adam Sroka, continuous integration allows a team to find integration issues fast so should reduce the risk of building something which does not work and yes the notion of continuos delivery becomes feasible but this requires excellent teams employing tdd and the XP practices effectively in my opinion to allow that level of confidence in delivery of a feature. When you have many features to deliver in a backlog a time box/sprint allows others outside of a team that is being agile to plan for introduction of those features.

            Kevin


            On 11 Jul 2013, at 21:13, George Dinwiddie <lists@...> wrote:

             

            Pito,

            On 7/11/13 1:23 PM, Pito Salas wrote:
            >
            >
            > I was talking to someone today who was making the argument that
            > continuous integration and development were 'alternatives' to agile and
            > scrum. I would have thought that they are complementary, that you can
            > run your development and project with agile or scrum or a variant and
            > elect to embrace continuous integration and deployment.
            >
            > Are there any good references or articles that someone can point to
            > which address this question?

            Checking https://www.google.com/search?q=scrum+"continuous+integration"
            shows that a lot of people are using continuous integration as part of
            their Scrum practice.

            - George

            --
            Want to speak at AgileDC October 8, 2013? http://agiledc.org/speak/
            ----------------------------------------------------------
            * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
            Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
            Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
            ----------------------------------------------------------


          • Pito Salas
            Thanks for the responses. My feeling was that the two sets of practices were complementary and not alternatives, which is confirmed by this thread. And your
            Message 5 of 9 , Jul 11 1:36 PM
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              Thanks for the responses. 

              My feeling was that the two sets of practices were complementary and not alternatives, which is confirmed by this thread. And your responses were deeper than my own intuition which is also very helpful.

              - Pito


              On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 4:33 PM, Kevin Johnston <kevj121@...> wrote:
               

              Great answer Adam Sroka, continuous integration allows a team to find integration issues fast so should reduce the risk of building something which does not work and yes the notion of continuos delivery becomes feasible but this requires excellent teams employing tdd and the XP practices effectively in my opinion to allow that level of confidence in delivery of a feature. When you have many features to deliver in a backlog a time box/sprint allows others outside of a team that is being agile to plan for introduction of those features.


              Kevin


              On 11 Jul 2013, at 21:13, George Dinwiddie <lists@...> wrote:

               

              Pito,

              On 7/11/13 1:23 PM, Pito Salas wrote:
              >
              >
              > I was talking to someone today who was making the argument that
              > continuous integration and development were 'alternatives' to agile and
              > scrum. I would have thought that they are complementary, that you can
              > run your development and project with agile or scrum or a variant and
              > elect to embrace continuous integration and deployment.
              >
              > Are there any good references or articles that someone can point to
              > which address this question?

              Checking https://www.google.com/search?q=scrum+"continuous+integration"
              shows that a lot of people are using continuous integration as part of
              their Scrum practice.

              - George

              --
              Want to speak at AgileDC October 8, 2013? http://agiledc.org/speak/
              ----------------------------------------------------------
              * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
              Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
              Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
              ----------------------------------------------------------





              --
              Check out http://www.salas.com and http://www.blogbridge.com/look
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