## Re: [scrumdevelopment] Summation of user story points to epic level point estimation

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• Madhur, Can you please give more insights on this estimation ? Thanks Sekhar On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 12:55 PM, Madhur Kathuria
Message 1 of 10 , Jul 10, 2013

Can you please give more insights on this estimation ?

Thanks
Sekhar

On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 12:55 PM, Madhur Kathuria wrote:

In the little experience that I have working with the teams for better estimations. Trying to use the same measure across different levels of always seems to create similar confusions

What we have tried to do for some of our teams to have separate notion of relative estimations at Epic(epic points) and Story(story points) levels. This has helped the POs most as they can still track the progress and give a high level release plan without pushing the teams to estimate early or trying to superimpose estimations at higher level to better estimations done by team at story level

With Regards,
Chair, India Scrum Enthusiasts Community (ISEC)
Founder, Agile Pune

On 10 July 2013 10:24, poojawandile wrote:

HI,
During one of our discussions, the point related to story point estimation at epic and user story level came up. During release planning, the product owner usually define Epics which are then further sliced into smaller user stories at the product backlog grooming meetings. The epics are normally large in size and estimated at 13 points and above and the stories are sliced such that each story is not more than 8 points. Each epic can have multiple user stories. The question is, is it necessary that the point estimation at the user story level should add up to epic point estimation? Or it is OK to have smaller variation in points at epic/story level?

Regards,
Pooja

• ... Story-point math is a smell that you re missing the point. ... Absolutely. The main problem with story points is that they are a pseudo-mathematical
Message 2 of 10 , Jul 10, 2013

On Jul 10, 2013 3:28 PM, "David A Barrett" <dave.barrett@...> wrote:
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> Resist strongly the urge to do anything involving story-point math.  Story-point math is a smell that you're missing the point.
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Absolutely. The main problem with story points is that they are a pseudo-mathematical concept that for some reason encourages people to compound estimation errors with elaborate arithmetic.

The other problem with story points is that for some reason they enable people to accept stories that are larger than the smallest valuable slice they are capable of delivering.

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