Re: CONCERN: over continuing Schisming/Fragmentation of Scrum & Agile
- This post exchange seems to be going nowhere - but I'll leave it with this:
(1) your quote re "Be the change you want to see in the world." - is fine and I get the point - BUTTT - I feel it **realistically** is both overly idealistic AND (more to the point) not necessarily truly **applicable**, **doable** or even **practical** in the context of this particular forum discussion.
(2) I would assert that indeed I **am** indeed exactly trying to do just what your quote alludes to - but only to the extent that I actually **can**. In fact, the exchange I've initiated on this forum is doing exactly what you state you are looking for - i.e., "see people working to integrate these ideas". I am more than happy to offer both my opinions, thought processes, and experiences to acheive the goal I'm posting about - and would love to gather and integrate the same from Agile Thought Leaders - whose input will have much more weight than mine (as I've hope I made the case for previously).
That said, again I'd assert that this forum is **not** the appropriate mechanism by which to achieve consensus/resolution on these rather complex issues. If there **does** exist some other forum to do so (besides real-time face-to-face, which - as an agilist - I'd hope you agree may be the **best** way) - I'm "All Ears" - - -
So to conclude, I really do **not** see where you are going with these "nice & lofty" quotes and very generic (albeit condescending) advice. All I'm really getting out of this is that **you** do not want to participate on the issues I raise - which is of course your right. I do think that decision is quite a loss, since you are clearly one of the brightest, most well-respected, and hardest-working Agile thought leaders around.
Lets leave at it this - - -. Perhaps I'll corner you at the upcoming Vegas Gathering and get a better, more face-to-face sense of your thoughts - and willingness to directly participate - on these issues.
Doug Shelton, "Opinion Evangelist".
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@...> wrote:
> On Apr 19, 2013, at 6:51 PM, "Doug" <dshelton94501@...> wrote:
> > Re your suggestion of "consider devoting more of your time to things you can do" - Indeed, I am already doing that. And I object to your somewhat insulting characterization of me as "tell[ing} other people what they should do" - unless you consider offering an **opinion** and having a **conviction** on how the agile community can come together better and address real issues of concern to the business as "Telling you what to do". In that case - following your logic - I suggest we all get out of the business of offering opinions and feedback on these forums.
> "Be the change you want to see in the world."
> In this context, I'd rather see people working to integrate these ideas than asking others to do it.
> Ron Jeffries
> I try to Zen through it and keep my voice very mellow and low.
> Inside I am screaming and have a machine gun.
> Yin and Yang I figure.
> -- Tom Jeffries
- Thanks a lot, George.Rgds-AN
On 4/20/13 10:16 AM, A Narasimhan wrote:
> Recently there was a mail on Agile Scaling by Ron Jeffries which went
> like this:
> ‘Collaboration works in a team but not so much in a building...’ etc.
> There were several points covered in that mail on scaling. I somehow
> deleted that mail.
> Can someone re-send the mail please...You could also send it to my
> personal mail
> mailto:an.narasimhan%40yahoo.co.in <mailto:mailto:an.narasimhan%40yahoo.co.in>
Every email has a trailer that includes:
> Visit Your Group
You can go there to search for messages.
* George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org