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Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: CONCERN: over continuing Schisming/Fragmentation of Scrum & Agile

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  • Mark Levison
    Doug - thanks for the recent promotion of influencer, I will be sure to tell my wife that have influence its sure to get a smile. Your email makes two
    Message 1 of 107 , Apr 18 6:37 AM
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      Doug - thanks for the recent promotion of influencer, I will be sure to tell my wife that have influence its sure to get a smile.

      Your email makes two assumptions
      • There is one "true" agile way
      • That Ken, Jeff, Allan, David, Ron, Adam, Dean, Charles, I, etc could get together in a room and agree on anything :-) I wouldn't be shocked if there were fisticuffs.
      I don't think there is one "true" agile way nor do I want there to be. Different competing sets of ideas are a healthy sign. Learning about and using Kanban has changed the way I use and understand Scrum. Studying behavioural psychology has had a similar effect. Part of what I love about this community is that we're always discovering new ideas and sharing them. Sometimes these new ideas led to new approaches the focus on flow leading to Kanban. Other times they cause us to make small changes (my own work). Either way its good that there is competition. 

      The only bad thing is the hyperbola in the marketing that some people use - my approach is better, than your approach. My approach scales and yours doesn't etc.
      I've even learned some things from studying SaFe (pictures are easy to sell, but are poor models of reality). So I continue to welcome a messy marketplace of ideas and approaches. 

      Cheers
      Mark
       


      On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Doug <dshelton94501@...> wrote:
       

      Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Digest Number 5339
      Adam, Mark, Charles, and Ron:

      You guys have been in the business of agile consulting far longer than I've dipped my fingers into it, so - going out on a limb here/sticking my neck out (pick your favorite metaphor), I want to make an observation about your "combined discussion" here:

      While the back and forth discussion on this topic and forum is **interesting** - it really has the flavor/smell of defeatism - essentially along the lines of thowing ones hands up in the air and saying "Well, it is what it is, what the heck can ya do??" - and furthermore, doesn't really seem to be "going anywhere" (an least not toward any actionable, concrete solutions). Also, the initial discussion has "evolved" - to put it kindly, somewhat down a (potential) rabbit hole of "can agile suceed in large organizations" - related, I grant you, but not quite the same as the issues of "agile divergence/schisming" and "Agile Scaling" I originally raised.

      SO - where am I going with this observation (you ask)? Simply this: Is there any possibility of agile leaders such as yourselves directly tackling - with a "positive, it may at least be possible" attitude & perspective - these issues of scaling and agile divergence, in directed/focused/facilitated face-to-face real-time conversations - perhaps in some kind of "Joint conference" focused on such issues? AND (pressing for even more here), perhaps including Not only those agile leaders among you mostly tapped into/supporting the Scrum Alliance and Scrum.org, but also including some of those "**other** agile folks" promoting their own brand (and admittedly, associated consulting practices) of agile (a la Dean Leffingwell, Alan Shalloway, David Anderson, etc.)?

      Although I am getting more "advanced in years", to put it kindly, nevertheless I continue to retain a certain degree of optimism (if not Naviety) in the hope that folks want to (and should want to) work toward unified frameworks, processes, and practices in the agile arena. That doesn't at all suggest there isn't any vale in continuing to evolve, ad to, and even change agile approaches over tinme - but I'm completely convinced that such efforts would be to the benefit to businesses - small, medium, or large sized, who won't have to "guess and pick" among alternatives, or potentially worse, "mix and match" in a way that is ultimately self-defeating because the principles and approaches of such mix and match may potentially undermine the benefits.

      You guys are the leaders - whatdaya say?

      R. Douglas "Doug" Shelton, PMP, CSM, ITILv3
      M: 510.846.8565
      H: 510.769.1514
      eMail: rdougshelton@...
      Yahoo IM: dshelton94501
      Gtalk/Skype: rdougshelton
      Linked-In URL: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rdouglasshelton


      Cheers
      Mark Levison
      Agile Pain Relief Consulting | Writing
      Proud Sponsor of Agile Tour Gatineau Ottawa Nov 28, Toronto 26 and Montreal 24
    • A Narasimhan
      Thanks a lot, George. Rgds-AN From: George Dinwiddie Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 8:55 PM To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re:
      Message 107 of 107 , Apr 21 7:50 AM
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        Thanks a lot, George.
        Rgds-AN
         
        Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 8:55 PM
        Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] CONCERN: over continuing Schisming/Fragmentation of Scrum & Agile
         
         

        AN,

        On 4/20/13 10:16 AM, A Narasimhan wrote:
        >
        >
        > Hi:
        > Recently there was a mail on Agile Scaling by Ron Jeffries which went
        > something
        > like this:
        > ‘Collaboration works in a team but not so much in a building...’ etc.
        > There were several points covered in that mail on scaling. I somehow
        > deleted that mail.
        > Can someone re-send the mail please...You could also send it to my
        > personal mail
        > mailto:an.narasimhan%40yahoo.co.in <mailto:mailto:an.narasimhan%40yahoo.co.in>
        > Rgds-AN

        Every email has a trailer that includes:

        > Visit Your Group
        > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scrumdevelopment

        You can go there to search for messages.

        - George

        --
        ----------------------------------------------------------
        * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
        Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
        Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
        ----------------------------------------------------------

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