Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [scrumdevelopment] CONCERN: over continuing Schisming/Fragmentation of Scrum & Agile

Expand Messages
  • Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum Trai
    Transparency:  I m a Professional Scrum Trainer(PST) with Scrum.org Disclaimer:  I do not speak for Scrum.org nor Ken Schwaber.  I m also not trying to
    Message 1 of 107 , Apr 11 8:05 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      Transparency:  I'm a Professional Scrum Trainer(PST) with Scrum.org
      Disclaimer:  I do not speak for Scrum.org nor Ken Schwaber.  I'm also not trying to "channel" Ken Schwaber either.  The opinions are my own, based on my Scrum.org experiences as a trainer and Scrum Coach.

      > However I've friends who choose to be PST's and I don't like them any less. In fact I like one so much we collaborated on an article together.

      Mark, enjoyed collaborating on that, looking forward to having dinner again when we cross paths!  Torturing the waitstaff(humorously) at that restaurant in Boston was fun.


      > Differences:
      > Scrum.org - for profit. ScrumAlliance - not for profit (FYI - I like for profit businesses - my own company is for profit)

      Note that there is not necessarily a huge practical difference here.  In a for profit, the "extra money", generally goes to shareholders.  In a "not for profit", the "extra money" generally goes into organizational programs, or into the pockets of executives and employees of the non profit.  One key difference with the "for profit" version is that control is dictated by the shareholders and officers, while in the non profit version, control is dictated by bylaws, which usually give that power to a board of directors.  The two org types can be run very similarly, or vastly different, but I do believe that the differences are quite material and significant (just not necessarily huge, IMO).

      Also note well that a "not for profit" is not the same as a "charitable organization"(known as a 501-c-3 charity in the USA).  


      > Scrum.org - provides common training material for all trainers. Scrum Alliance provides common objectives and core ideas we must cover 
      > however each trainer creates their own material. For me this is a big difference I can't/won't facilitate someone else's material. Also the 
      > diversity of approaches is a source of innovation for all us. 

      Essentially true, with some small modifications.  Scrum.org trainers are allowed some leeway to customize material to client needs and trainer preferences.  Having said that, the leeway is not large, because we feel a certain amount of consistency is important.  We feel that it is a competitive advantage that the international organizations that get training from us will get essentially the same Scrum class, even when it is given in Denver, CO, Frankfurt, Germany, Mumbai, India, and Malaysia -- or anywhere else around the world.  They can rest assured that their people around the globe will be "speaking the same Scrum language."  

      I should also mention that the Scrum.org trainer community essentially self organizes to make changes to our courseware.  Every trainer has ability to influence and evolve our materials.  I don't want to reveal exactly how we do that... as it is another competitive advantage, IMO.

      I will mention one thing worth noting, IMO.  Scrum.org has a class called "Professional Scrum Foundations", which actually targets training for entire Scrum teams, AND supports the PSM I certification.  To my knowledge, the Scrum alliance has no equivalent, as their classes still target the individual roles:  PO's, SM's, Developers.

      We [meet] several times a year to exchange materials and ideas.

      Scrum.org trainers also do this.  It's a wonderful experience collaborating with some of the foremost experts on Scrum in the world.  I also get a chance from time to time to collaborate with some of the foremost experts on Scrum in the world from the Scrum Alliance, too.  It's awesome!

      > Scrum Alliance - really is just an alliance we don't always agree, in some cases I suspect we don't like each other.

      Same at Scrum.org, though the dislike is rare, IME.  (also, we're a younger org... so give it time!)

      > Scrum.org - had to expand faster because it started with fewer trainers. ScrumAlliance currently has ~140 trainers and that number is growing.

      Also likely true.  Scrum.org currently has around 100 trainers worldwide.

      > I know nothing of Scrum.org's trainer vetting process. I know the SA's well, we're slow to approve new trainers and often ask people to improve before approving them. 
      The Scrum.org trainer vetting process is fairly extensive, but the process itself is very open.  I think this page has been up on the site for at least a couple of years:

      ----
      > Differences aside - I value diversity, without diversity there are no new ideas. Scrum.org (and the PMI) force the ScrumAlliance to change more quickly and force us to adapt. 
      > Challenging new ideas can only be good for us - whether they be from Ken, David Anderson or anyone else.
      Agreed, agreed, and agreed!

       
      -------
      Charles Bradley
      Professional Scrum Trainer
      Scrum Coach-in-Chief
      ScrumCrazy.com




      From: Mark Levison <mark@...>
      To: Scrumdevelopment <scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 9:06 AM
      Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] CONCERN: over continuing Schisming/Fragmentation of Scrum & Agile



      Kurt - there are real differences between Scrum.org and the ScrumAlliance. How much they matter is up to the reader to decide.

      Caveat Emptor - I'm a Certified Scrum Trainer and am affiliated with the Scrum Alliance. However I've friends who choose to be PST's and I don't like them any less. In fact I like one so much we collaborated on an article together.

      Differences:
      Scrum.org - for profit. ScrumAlliance - not for profit (FYI - I like for profit businesses - my own company is for profit)
      Scrum.org - provides common training material for all trainers. Scrum Alliance provides common objectives and core ideas we must cover however each trainer creates their own material. For me this is a big difference I can't/won't facilitate someone else's material. Also the diversity of approaches is a source of innovation for all us. We several times a year to exchange materials and ideas.
      Scrum Alliance - really is just an alliance we don't always agree, in some cases I suspect we don't like each other.
      Scrum.org - had to expand faster because it started with fewer trainers. ScrumAlliance currently has ~140 trainers and that number is growing.

      I know nothing of Scrum.org's trainer vetting process. I know the SA's well, we're slow to approve new trainers and often ask people to improve before approving them. Here are the standards I test anyone asking to be CST against: http://agilepainrelief.com/notesfromatooluser/2013/02/endorsements-cst-candidates.html

      ----
      Differences aside - I value diversity, without diversity there are no new ideas. Scrum.org (and the PMI) force the ScrumAlliance to change more quickly and force us to adapt. Challenging new ideas can only be good for us - whether they be from Ken, David Anderson or anyone else.

      --
      Cheers
      Mark Levison
      Agile Pain Relief Consulting | Writing
      Proud Sponsor of Agile Tour Gatineau Ottawa Nov 28, Toronto 26 and Montreal 24




    • A Narasimhan
      Thanks a lot, George. Rgds-AN From: George Dinwiddie Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 8:55 PM To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re:
      Message 107 of 107 , Apr 21 7:50 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        Thanks a lot, George.
        Rgds-AN
         
        Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 8:55 PM
        Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] CONCERN: over continuing Schisming/Fragmentation of Scrum & Agile
         
         

        AN,

        On 4/20/13 10:16 AM, A Narasimhan wrote:
        >
        >
        > Hi:
        > Recently there was a mail on Agile Scaling by Ron Jeffries which went
        > something
        > like this:
        > ‘Collaboration works in a team but not so much in a building...’ etc.
        > There were several points covered in that mail on scaling. I somehow
        > deleted that mail.
        > Can someone re-send the mail please...You could also send it to my
        > personal mail
        > mailto:an.narasimhan%40yahoo.co.in <mailto:mailto:an.narasimhan%40yahoo.co.in>
        > Rgds-AN

        Every email has a trailer that includes:

        > Visit Your Group
        > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scrumdevelopment

        You can go there to search for messages.

        - George

        --
        ----------------------------------------------------------
        * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
        Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
        Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
        ----------------------------------------------------------

      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.