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Re: [scrumdevelopment] CONCERN: over continuing Schisming/Fragmentation of Scrum & Agile

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  • Markus Gaertner
    Hi Ron, just to make you aware, there is actually a business platform called xing: http://www.xing.com - something like linkedin. I don t know what their
    Message 1 of 107 , Apr 10, 2013
      Hi Ron,

      just to make you aware, there is actually a business platform called xing: http://www.xing.com - something like linkedin.

      I don't know what their position in regard to Scrum is, though. :)


      On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 5:12 PM, Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@...> wrote:

      Hi Kurt,

      On Apr 10, 2013, at 5:03 AM, Kurt Häusler <kurt.haeusler@...> wrote:

      As far as Scrum goes, specifically the differences between the Scrum
      Guide and Core Scrum, well people are concerned about that. I noticed
      a few threads on Xing recently about the topic. Some people see the
      differences as being serious and important, and something in dire need
      of resolution. I and many others don't care that much. I think I
      prefer the Scrum Guide's latest description of Scrum, but really,
      whatever works best for the team is fine for me, and I find heated
      discussions on the topic a bit of a waste of effort that could be
      better invested elsewhere.

      Xing, just the place to discuss that.

      FYI, we could not, of course, plagiarize the Scrum Guide, and the Scrum Alliance wanted their own description of Scrum, for business reasons that have some validity.

      We were, however, very careful not to contradict the Guide, because we believe that Ken and Jeff, the Guide's authors, deserve respect as the creators of Scrum. In addition, we went through a long and difficult gauntlet with the Core, so that there is very little disagreement with what the Core says. Much of accomplishing this involved removing material that concerned even a few reviewers.  In the final round of reviews, we were held to a nearly impossible standard: We were asked to ensure that no Certified Scrum Trainer -- not even one -- would say that they wouldn't use the Core.

      As such, it would surprise me greatly to find any significant variance in meaning between the Guide and the Core, although there are of course many differences in the specific words and phrases used.  That doesn't mean it couldn't happen, but the current intention was that there should be no significant differences.

      I could imagine that changing. I could imagine that some center of thinking in the Scrum Alliance might shift substantially away from the thinking of Ken and Jeff. If that were to happen, the Scrum Alliance would have some thinking to do about how to position these new ideas, and I would have some thinking to do as well, because I think the creators of methods should get to say what the method is, whether they copyright, patent, or trademark the thing, or not. Even if they are wrong about what they recommend! 

      If there is something wrong in Scrum, I feel free to call it out. "The demand that the Product Owner sell her soul to Space Vampires has no place in Scrum!!" I would even feel free to define a new process where the PO sells her soul, instead, to Underground Werewolves, which is obviously better. But I would not feel free to call that new process "Scrum".

      So if people on Xing, wherever that may be, think there are any significant discrepancies between the Guide and the Core, it is news to me, in part because they have not brought their concerns to the attention of anyone who could answer their concerns or do something about it. I suspect that is because the people of Planet Xing have sold their souls to Space Vampires. Which is just wrong.
      If not now, when? -- Rabbi Hillel

      Dipl.-Inform. Markus Gärtner
      Author of ATDD by Example - A Practical Guide to Acceptance Test-Driven Development
    • A Narasimhan
      Thanks a lot, George. Rgds-AN From: George Dinwiddie Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 8:55 PM To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re:
      Message 107 of 107 , Apr 21, 2013
        Thanks a lot, George.
        Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 8:55 PM
        Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] CONCERN: over continuing Schisming/Fragmentation of Scrum & Agile


        On 4/20/13 10:16 AM, A Narasimhan wrote:
        > Hi:
        > Recently there was a mail on Agile Scaling by Ron Jeffries which went
        > something
        > like this:
        > ‘Collaboration works in a team but not so much in a building...’ etc.
        > There were several points covered in that mail on scaling. I somehow
        > deleted that mail.
        > Can someone re-send the mail please...You could also send it to my
        > personal mail
        > mailto:an.narasimhan%40yahoo.co.in <mailto:mailto:an.narasimhan%40yahoo.co.in>
        > Rgds-AN

        Every email has a trailer that includes:

        > Visit Your Group
        > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scrumdevelopment

        You can go there to search for messages.

        - George

        * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
        Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
        Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org

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