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RE: [scrumdevelopment] release planning

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  • Richard Griffiths
    J -- Richard Speed is n0 subsitute fnor accurancy From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Vizdos
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 4, 2013
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      J

       

      --

      Richard

       

      Speed is n0 subsitute fnor accurancy

       

      From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Vizdos
      Sent: 04 March 2013 10:31
      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] release planning

       

       

      ... never does.  But as long as it is a good Merlot -- enjoy!

       

      Here is a cartoon that may make you smile (at least for now):

       

      http://www.implementingscrum.com/2010/10/11/scrum-story-points-and-the-answers-to-the-universe/

       

      - mike vizdos



      On Monday, March 4, 2013, Richard Griffiths wrote:

       

      Oh dear

       

      Overheard this week – we’d like you to put together a release plan for project x. No problem says I, going on about how we can size at the epic level, the cone of uncertainty, and how it will change.  I’ll get the team on it. Ah, we want you, the BA and architect to size it as it will be quicker. Blank look follows.

       

      I am still both annoyed and confused and the merlot ain’t helping.

       

      --

      Richard

       

      Speed is n0 subsitute fnor accurancy



      --

      Thank you.

      - mike vizdos
         www.michaelvizdos.com/contact

       

    • Ryan Cromwell
      And since now they know about the cone of uncertainty they won t have any misguided understandings about it s accuracy. Given a large enough estimate, your
      Message 2 of 16 , Mar 4, 2013
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        And since now they know about the cone of uncertainty they won't have any misguided understandings about it's accuracy.  Given a large enough estimate, your bound to be within the margin of error.  

        If they still feel the return will be worth it... now the team get's it's short at continually providing updated estimate ranges based on rubber & road.
      • Nirmala Jegadheesan
        I agree, the most uncertain, seemingly infinite task is Relase planning but keep in mind you need not COMPLETE it in first sitting. Make large stories, do
        Message 3 of 16 , Mar 4, 2013
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          I agree, the most uncertain, seemingly infinite task is "Relase planning" but keep in mind you need not "COMPLETE" it in first sitting. Make large stories, do 3 times the estimate and finish it soon. When working on sprint planning you can me more elaborate and accurate.
          All the best!
          Regards,
          Nirmala

          From: Richard Griffiths <richard@...>
          To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 3:08 AM
          Subject: [scrumdevelopment] release planning
           
          Oh dear
           
          Overheard this week – we’d like you to put together a release plan for project x. No problem says I, going on about how we can size at the epic level, the cone of uncertainty, and how it will change.  I’ll get the team on it. Ah, we want you, the BA and architect to size it as it will be quicker. Blank look follows.
           
          I am still both annoyed and confused and the merlot ain’t helping.
           
          --
          Richard
           
          Speed is n0 subsitute fnor accurancy
        • Cheng, Richard
          I have heard good things about the Ken Collier book,
          Message 4 of 16 , Mar 6, 2013
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            I also have some colleagues who are giving an Agile BI class in early April in the Washington, DC area.  If you are interested, take a look at http://agile-bi-dc.eventbrite.com/

            Good luck,
            ------------------------------
            Richard K Cheng, CST, PMP, PMI-ACP
            Principal & Agile Center of Excellence, Lead
            Excella Consulting
            richard.cheng@... 
            703-967-8620
            twitter: @RichardKCheng


            From: Mark Levison <mark@...>
            Reply-To: "scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com" <scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com>
            Date: Monday, March 4, 2013 5:06 PM
            To: "scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com" <scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum in Data Warehousing?

             

            Ken Collier who I know through Cutter has done some work with clients on this. At one stage he threatened to write a book on it.

            Cheers
            Mark

            Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum Trainer and Coach wrote:

             
            I have a client who is considering using Scrum in Data Warehousing(I won't be involved in that).  He knows how to use Google, but I was wondering if anyone had any *highly recommended resources*  for using Scrum in DW(books, blogs, ec).  He is fully aware of the Hughes book(which got a negative review from someone I trust), and I also have some info on Scott Ambler's work in this area.

            Anything else that you would *highly recommend*?
             
            -------
            Charles Bradley
            Scrum Coach-in-Chief
            ScrumCrazy.com



            --
            Cheers
            Mark Levison
            Agile Pain Relief Consulting | Writing
            Proud Sponsor of Agile Tour Gatineau Ottawa Nov 28, Toronto 26 and Montreal
            24

          • Richard Griffiths
            All Interesting epic sizing meeting with the team today. We did relative sizing and then assigned them t-shirt values. Then we assigned them points based on
            Message 5 of 16 , Mar 6, 2013
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              All

               

              Interesting epic sizing meeting with the team today. We did relative sizing and then assigned them t-shirt values. Then we assigned them points based on planning poker multiplied by 10. Now I know there’s a chance of gaming the values, but some of the epics point sizes matched quite well with previous equivalent epics. The problem arose with larger epic sizes, which was unsurprising due to complexity and some of them being mixed buckets of work. A good first pass, giving us plenty of time to review the epics, split and start grooming the stories. The fact that stakeholders will probably have a heart attack is another matter.

               

              I’d be interested to see if people think it is worth sizing epics at the t-shirt level and then trying to map story points to them? I’ll be doing the same tomorrow with a more established team so will be interested to see the difference.

               

              --

              Richard

               

              Speed is n0 subsitute fnor accurancy

            • Gary Brown
              ... From a much different context: Fast is fine, accuracy is final. - Wyatt Earp 8^) GB. ... This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
              Message 6 of 16 , Mar 6, 2013
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                Quoting Richard Griffiths <richard@...>:

                >
                > Speed is n0 subsitute fnor accurancy
                >
                >

                From a much different context:

                Fast is fine, accuracy is final.
                - Wyatt Earp

                8^)

                GB.




                ----------------------------------------------------------------
                This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
              • Kevin Callahan
                I guess it depends what you re hoping to gain by spending time sizing epics? I ll also say that release planning has been one of the most difficult
                Message 7 of 16 , Mar 6, 2013
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                  I guess it depends what you're hoping to gain by spending time sizing epics? I'll also say that release planning has been one of the most difficult organizational problems to solve. One option, and this is at risk of hijacking the thread, is to ask a different question: what is the minimum we can do right now to push value out the door?

                  The teams I work with have seen a lot of value in just-in-time estimation; as long as the next sprint's work is prioritized, groomed, and estimated, there's not a tremendous amount of effort put into additional stories. Lean has deeply influenced my thinking on this, particularly the emphasis on eliminating time delays between story state changes; I realize this is not universal, and varies greatly depending where an app is in its lifecycle, among a whole slew of other important variables.

                  In short, from your message it *seems* like maybe there's a bit too much planning, and perhaps not enough stakeholder involvement, to be able to clearly prioritize exactly what is next, and then break only that part down. Stakeholders *should* be excited and eager that their needs are being met, though if there's not alignment at the stakeholder level, well, that's another issue ;)

                  Hope that helps…

                  -k


                  On Mar 6, 2013, at 2:26 PM, Richard Griffiths wrote:

                   

                  All

                   

                  Interesting epic sizing meeting with the team today. We did relative sizing and then assigned them t-shirt values. Then we assigned them points based on planning poker multiplied by 10. Now I know there’s a chance of gaming the values, but some of the epics point sizes matched quite well with previous equivalent epics. The problem arose with larger epic sizes, which was unsurprising due to complexity and some of them being mixed buckets of work. A good first pass, giving us plenty of time to review the epics, split and start grooming the stories. The fact that stakeholders will probably have a heart attack is another matter.

                   

                  I’d be interested to see if people think it is worth sizing epics at the t-shirt level and then trying to map story points to them? I’ll be doing the same tomorrow with a more established team so will be interested to see the difference.

                   

                  --

                  Richard

                   

                  Speed is n0 subsitute fnor accurancy



                  Kevin Callahan
                  Scrum Master & Agile Coach
                  LiveWorld Inc.

                  Mobile+1 (207) 691-2997
                  Emailkcallahan@...
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                  Webwww.liveworld.com

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