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Re: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum in Data Warehousing?

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  • Jesse Houwing
    Charles, Though it s not really helpful for you, I thought to share my experience in this area. A colleague is working on a sort of approach towards this. Not
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 4, 2013
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      Charles,

      Though it's not really helpful for you, I thought to share my experience in this area. A colleague is working on a sort of approach towards this. Not a book, but a collection of practices. So far I know he bumped into a lot of issues around the tooling that made it really hard to gradually grow and change the warehouse. And he bumped into a lot of issues due to the fact that the code usually *is* the database, making proper versioning and automation a real pain.

      This was especially so in older versions of the Microsoft SQL Server offerings, but Microsoft is fixing this rapidly. In SQL 2012 BI solutions, the GUID's that stitch these things together no longer change every time you hit save and SQL Server Data Tools are making it easier to sync your database to sourcecontrol and back, slowly taking the source out of the database. So far I've met a lot of resistance from the folks managing these databases, since they used to be the real owners of the source and responsible for the operations of the system. They usually look a lot deeper into what was deployed to 'their' servers, than the average operations team that receives a set of packaged binaries that make up a website.

      As a Team Foundation Server geek, I like the approach Microsoft has taken towards the creation and changes to the warehouse, they're building the warehouse from code and apply changes to the model as needed. This approach makes the database pretty flexible, but renders a lot of the standard tooling useless. And as far as I've been working in this area, most of the API's used to make this work (mostly under Microsoft.AnalysisService) are very scarcely documented. Not even GhostDoc'ed.

      When we have something to publish in this area I'll surely post a few links here. I guess that books providing a mix of a lot of traditional and not much on tooling usage will remain for some time. Around Microsoft Solutions, anything referencing older than SQL Server 2008r2 is not to be trusted. Anything related to 2012 might actually come close... :S.

      Jesse


      On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 7:50 AM, Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum Trainer and Coach <chuck-lists2@...> wrote:


      I have a client who is considering using Scrum in Data Warehousing(I won't be involved in that).  He knows how to use Google, but I was wondering if anyone had any *highly recommended resources*  for using Scrum in DW(books, blogs, ec).  He is fully aware of the Hughes book(which got a negative review from someone I trust), and I also have some info on Scott Ambler's work in this area.

      Anything else that you would *highly recommend*?
       
      -------
      Charles Bradley
      Scrum Coach-in-Chief
      ScrumCrazy.com





    • Richard Griffiths
      Oh dear Overheard this week - we d like you to put together a release plan for project x. No problem says I, going on about how we can size at the epic level,
      Message 2 of 16 , Mar 4, 2013
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        Oh dear

         

        Overheard this week – we’d like you to put together a release plan for project x. No problem says I, going on about how we can size at the epic level, the cone of uncertainty, and how it will change.  I’ll get the team on it. Ah, we want you, the BA and architect to size it as it will be quicker. Blank look follows.

         

        I am still both annoyed and confused and the merlot ain’t helping.

         

        --

        Richard

         

        Speed is n0 subsitute fnor accurancy

      • George Dinwiddie
        Richard, ... In such situations, I don t know anything better to do than to fall back on traditional estimation methods: take your best guess, triple the
        Message 3 of 16 , Mar 4, 2013
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          Richard,

          On 3/4/13 4:38 PM, Richard Griffiths wrote:
          >
          >
          > Oh dear
          >
          > Overheard this week – we’d like you to put together a release plan for
          > project x. No problem says I, going on about how we can size at the epic
          > level, the cone of uncertainty, and how it will change. I’ll get the
          > team on it. Ah, we want you, the BA and architect to size it as it will
          > be quicker. Blank look follows.
          >
          > I am still both annoyed and confused and the merlot ain’t helping.

          In such situations, I don't know anything better to do than to fall back
          on traditional estimation methods: take your best guess, triple the
          number, and increment the unit of measurement. E.g., if it looks like 6
          weeks work at first glance, tell them 18 months. It's surprising how
          accurate that is. :-)

          - George

          --
          ----------------------------------------------------------------------
          * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
          Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
          Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
          ----------------------------------------------------------------------
        • Mark Levison
          Ken Collier who I know through Cutter has done some work with clients on this. At one stage he threatened to write a book on it. Cheers Mark ... -- Cheers Mark
          Message 4 of 16 , Mar 4, 2013
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            Ken Collier who I know through Cutter has done some work with clients on this. At one stage he threatened to write a book on it.

            Cheers
            Mark

            Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum Trainer and Coach wrote:
             
            I have a client who is considering using Scrum in Data Warehousing(I won't be involved in that).  He knows how to use Google, but I was wondering if anyone had any *highly recommended resources*  for using Scrum in DW(books, blogs, ec).  He is fully aware of the Hughes book(which got a negative review from someone I trust), and I also have some info on Scott Ambler's work in this area.

            Anything else that you would *highly recommend*?
             
            -------
            Charles Bradley
            Scrum Coach-in-Chief
            ScrumCrazy.com



            --
            Cheers
            Mark Levison
            Agile Pain Relief Consulting | Writing
            Proud Sponsor of Agile Tour Gatineau Ottawa Nov 28, Toronto 26 and Montreal
            24
          • theropas@q.com
            It might also help to switch from Merlot to old granddad Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID ... It might also help to switch from Merlot to old
            Message 5 of 16 , Mar 4, 2013
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              It might also help to switch from Merlot to old granddad

              Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID


              George Dinwiddie <lists@...> wrote:

              Richard,

              On 3/4/13 4:38 PM, Richard Griffiths wrote:
              >
              >
              > Oh dear
              >
              > Overheard this week – we’d like you to put together a release plan for
              > project x. No problem says I, going on about how we can size at the epic
              > level, the cone of uncertainty, and how it will change.  I’ll get the
              > team on it. Ah, we want you, the BA and architect to size it as it will
              > be quicker. Blank look follows.
              >
              > I am still both annoyed and confused and the merlot ain’t helping.

              In such situations, I don't know anything better to do than to fall back
              on traditional estimation methods: take your best guess, triple the
              number, and increment the unit of measurement. E.g., if it looks like 6
              weeks work at first glance, tell them 18 months. It's surprising how
              accurate that is. :-)

                - George

              --
                ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                 * George Dinwiddie *                      http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
                 Software Development                    http://www.idiacomputing.com
                 Consultant and Coach                    http://www.agilemaryland.org
                ----------------------------------------------------------------------



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            • Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum Trai
              Or try Lee Henson s Rapid Release planning: http://www.agiledad.com/AgileMentor/RapidReleasePlanning.pdf You mostly just need slides 38-41.  Of course, this
              Message 6 of 16 , Mar 4, 2013
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                Or try Lee Henson's Rapid Release planning:
                http://www.agiledad.com/AgileMentor/RapidReleasePlanning.pdf

                You mostly just need slides 38-41. 

                Of course, this doesn't solve the root problem.  The merlot might.  :-)

                Just thought it might help to "sell" getting the whole team in a room to do it in an hour or two.
                 
                -------
                Charles Bradley
                Scrum Coach-in-Chief
                ScrumCrazy.com




                From: George Dinwiddie <lists@...>
                To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 3:00 PM
                Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] release planning

                Richard,

                On 3/4/13 4:38 PM, Richard Griffiths wrote:
                >
                >
                > Oh dear
                >
                > Overheard this week – we’d like you to put together a release plan for
                > project x. No problem says I, going on about how we can size at the epic
                > level, the cone of uncertainty, and how it will change.  I’ll get the
                > team on it. Ah, we want you, the BA and architect to size it as it will
                > be quicker. Blank look follows.
                >
                > I am still both annoyed and confused and the merlot ain’t helping.

                In such situations, I don't know anything better to do than to fall back
                on traditional estimation methods: take your best guess, triple the
                number, and increment the unit of measurement. E.g., if it looks like 6
                weeks work at first glance, tell them 18 months. It's surprising how
                accurate that is. :-)

                  - George

                --
                  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                  * George Dinwiddie *                      http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
                  Software Development                    http://www.idiacomputing.com
                  Consultant and Coach                    http://www.agilemaryland.org
                  ----------------------------------------------------------------------



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              • Richard Griffiths
                ... That was the originally suggested approach and will be done anyway, no matter what. I can’t get a sub-team to commit on behalf of the whole team.
                Message 7 of 16 , Mar 4, 2013
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                  >Just thought it might help to "sell" getting the whole team in a room to do it in an hour or two.

                   

                  That was the originally suggested approach and will be done anyway, no matter what. I can’t get a sub-team to commit on behalf of the whole team. That’s a pile of *spherical objects*

                   

                  Excellent slides!

                   

                  --

                  Richard

                   

                  Speed is n0 subsitute fnor accurancy

                • Michael Vizdos
                  ... never does. But as long as it is a good Merlot -- enjoy! Here is a cartoon that may make you smile (at least for now):
                  Message 8 of 16 , Mar 4, 2013
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                    ... never does.  But as long as it is a good Merlot -- enjoy!

                    Here is a cartoon that may make you smile (at least for now):

                    http://www.implementingscrum.com/2010/10/11/scrum-story-points-and-the-answers-to-the-universe/

                    - mike vizdos


                    On Monday, March 4, 2013, Richard Griffiths wrote:
                     

                    Oh dear

                     

                    Overheard this week – we’d like you to put together a release plan for project x. No problem says I, going on about how we can size at the epic level, the cone of uncertainty, and how it will change.  I’ll get the team on it. Ah, we want you, the BA and architect to size it as it will be quicker. Blank look follows.

                     

                    I am still both annoyed and confused and the merlot ain’t helping.

                     

                    --

                    Richard

                     

                    Speed is n0 subsitute fnor accurancy



                    --
                    Thank you.

                    - mike vizdos
                       www.michaelvizdos.com/contact

                  • Richard Griffiths
                    J -- Richard Speed is n0 subsitute fnor accurancy From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Vizdos
                    Message 9 of 16 , Mar 4, 2013
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                      J

                       

                      --

                      Richard

                       

                      Speed is n0 subsitute fnor accurancy

                       

                      From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Vizdos
                      Sent: 04 March 2013 10:31
                      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] release planning

                       

                       

                      ... never does.  But as long as it is a good Merlot -- enjoy!

                       

                      Here is a cartoon that may make you smile (at least for now):

                       

                      http://www.implementingscrum.com/2010/10/11/scrum-story-points-and-the-answers-to-the-universe/

                       

                      - mike vizdos



                      On Monday, March 4, 2013, Richard Griffiths wrote:

                       

                      Oh dear

                       

                      Overheard this week – we’d like you to put together a release plan for project x. No problem says I, going on about how we can size at the epic level, the cone of uncertainty, and how it will change.  I’ll get the team on it. Ah, we want you, the BA and architect to size it as it will be quicker. Blank look follows.

                       

                      I am still both annoyed and confused and the merlot ain’t helping.

                       

                      --

                      Richard

                       

                      Speed is n0 subsitute fnor accurancy



                      --

                      Thank you.

                      - mike vizdos
                         www.michaelvizdos.com/contact

                       

                    • Ryan Cromwell
                      And since now they know about the cone of uncertainty they won t have any misguided understandings about it s accuracy. Given a large enough estimate, your
                      Message 10 of 16 , Mar 4, 2013
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                        And since now they know about the cone of uncertainty they won't have any misguided understandings about it's accuracy.  Given a large enough estimate, your bound to be within the margin of error.  

                        If they still feel the return will be worth it... now the team get's it's short at continually providing updated estimate ranges based on rubber & road.
                      • Nirmala Jegadheesan
                        I agree, the most uncertain, seemingly infinite task is Relase planning but keep in mind you need not COMPLETE it in first sitting. Make large stories, do
                        Message 11 of 16 , Mar 4, 2013
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                          I agree, the most uncertain, seemingly infinite task is "Relase planning" but keep in mind you need not "COMPLETE" it in first sitting. Make large stories, do 3 times the estimate and finish it soon. When working on sprint planning you can me more elaborate and accurate.
                          All the best!
                          Regards,
                          Nirmala

                          From: Richard Griffiths <richard@...>
                          To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 3:08 AM
                          Subject: [scrumdevelopment] release planning
                           
                          Oh dear
                           
                          Overheard this week – we’d like you to put together a release plan for project x. No problem says I, going on about how we can size at the epic level, the cone of uncertainty, and how it will change.  I’ll get the team on it. Ah, we want you, the BA and architect to size it as it will be quicker. Blank look follows.
                           
                          I am still both annoyed and confused and the merlot ain’t helping.
                           
                          --
                          Richard
                           
                          Speed is n0 subsitute fnor accurancy
                        • Cheng, Richard
                          I have heard good things about the Ken Collier book,
                          Message 12 of 16 , Mar 6, 2013
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                            I also have some colleagues who are giving an Agile BI class in early April in the Washington, DC area.  If you are interested, take a look at http://agile-bi-dc.eventbrite.com/

                            Good luck,
                            ------------------------------
                            Richard K Cheng, CST, PMP, PMI-ACP
                            Principal & Agile Center of Excellence, Lead
                            Excella Consulting
                            richard.cheng@... 
                            703-967-8620
                            twitter: @RichardKCheng


                            From: Mark Levison <mark@...>
                            Reply-To: "scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com" <scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com>
                            Date: Monday, March 4, 2013 5:06 PM
                            To: "scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com" <scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com>
                            Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum in Data Warehousing?

                             

                            Ken Collier who I know through Cutter has done some work with clients on this. At one stage he threatened to write a book on it.

                            Cheers
                            Mark

                            Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum Trainer and Coach wrote:

                             
                            I have a client who is considering using Scrum in Data Warehousing(I won't be involved in that).  He knows how to use Google, but I was wondering if anyone had any *highly recommended resources*  for using Scrum in DW(books, blogs, ec).  He is fully aware of the Hughes book(which got a negative review from someone I trust), and I also have some info on Scott Ambler's work in this area.

                            Anything else that you would *highly recommend*?
                             
                            -------
                            Charles Bradley
                            Scrum Coach-in-Chief
                            ScrumCrazy.com



                            --
                            Cheers
                            Mark Levison
                            Agile Pain Relief Consulting | Writing
                            Proud Sponsor of Agile Tour Gatineau Ottawa Nov 28, Toronto 26 and Montreal
                            24

                          • Richard Griffiths
                            All Interesting epic sizing meeting with the team today. We did relative sizing and then assigned them t-shirt values. Then we assigned them points based on
                            Message 13 of 16 , Mar 6, 2013
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                              All

                               

                              Interesting epic sizing meeting with the team today. We did relative sizing and then assigned them t-shirt values. Then we assigned them points based on planning poker multiplied by 10. Now I know there’s a chance of gaming the values, but some of the epics point sizes matched quite well with previous equivalent epics. The problem arose with larger epic sizes, which was unsurprising due to complexity and some of them being mixed buckets of work. A good first pass, giving us plenty of time to review the epics, split and start grooming the stories. The fact that stakeholders will probably have a heart attack is another matter.

                               

                              I’d be interested to see if people think it is worth sizing epics at the t-shirt level and then trying to map story points to them? I’ll be doing the same tomorrow with a more established team so will be interested to see the difference.

                               

                              --

                              Richard

                               

                              Speed is n0 subsitute fnor accurancy

                            • Gary Brown
                              ... From a much different context: Fast is fine, accuracy is final. - Wyatt Earp 8^) GB. ... This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
                              Message 14 of 16 , Mar 6, 2013
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                                Quoting Richard Griffiths <richard@...>:

                                >
                                > Speed is n0 subsitute fnor accurancy
                                >
                                >

                                From a much different context:

                                Fast is fine, accuracy is final.
                                - Wyatt Earp

                                8^)

                                GB.




                                ----------------------------------------------------------------
                                This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
                              • Kevin Callahan
                                I guess it depends what you re hoping to gain by spending time sizing epics? I ll also say that release planning has been one of the most difficult
                                Message 15 of 16 , Mar 6, 2013
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                                  I guess it depends what you're hoping to gain by spending time sizing epics? I'll also say that release planning has been one of the most difficult organizational problems to solve. One option, and this is at risk of hijacking the thread, is to ask a different question: what is the minimum we can do right now to push value out the door?

                                  The teams I work with have seen a lot of value in just-in-time estimation; as long as the next sprint's work is prioritized, groomed, and estimated, there's not a tremendous amount of effort put into additional stories. Lean has deeply influenced my thinking on this, particularly the emphasis on eliminating time delays between story state changes; I realize this is not universal, and varies greatly depending where an app is in its lifecycle, among a whole slew of other important variables.

                                  In short, from your message it *seems* like maybe there's a bit too much planning, and perhaps not enough stakeholder involvement, to be able to clearly prioritize exactly what is next, and then break only that part down. Stakeholders *should* be excited and eager that their needs are being met, though if there's not alignment at the stakeholder level, well, that's another issue ;)

                                  Hope that helps…

                                  -k


                                  On Mar 6, 2013, at 2:26 PM, Richard Griffiths wrote:

                                   

                                  All

                                   

                                  Interesting epic sizing meeting with the team today. We did relative sizing and then assigned them t-shirt values. Then we assigned them points based on planning poker multiplied by 10. Now I know there’s a chance of gaming the values, but some of the epics point sizes matched quite well with previous equivalent epics. The problem arose with larger epic sizes, which was unsurprising due to complexity and some of them being mixed buckets of work. A good first pass, giving us plenty of time to review the epics, split and start grooming the stories. The fact that stakeholders will probably have a heart attack is another matter.

                                   

                                  I’d be interested to see if people think it is worth sizing epics at the t-shirt level and then trying to map story points to them? I’ll be doing the same tomorrow with a more established team so will be interested to see the difference.

                                   

                                  --

                                  Richard

                                   

                                  Speed is n0 subsitute fnor accurancy



                                  Kevin Callahan
                                  Scrum Master & Agile Coach
                                  LiveWorld Inc.

                                  Mobile+1 (207) 691-2997
                                  Emailkcallahan@...
                                  Skypekevmocal
                                  Webwww.liveworld.com

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