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Scrum in Data Warehousing?

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  • Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum Trai
    I have a client who is considering using Scrum in Data Warehousing(I won t be involved in that).  He knows how to use Google, but I was wondering if anyone
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 2 10:50 PM
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      I have a client who is considering using Scrum in Data Warehousing(I won't be involved in that).  He knows how to use Google, but I was wondering if anyone had any *highly recommended resources*  for using Scrum in DW(books, blogs, ec).  He is fully aware of the Hughes book(which got a negative review from someone I trust), and I also have some info on Scott Ambler's work in this area.

      Anything else that you would *highly recommend*?
       
      -------
      Charles Bradley
      Scrum Coach-in-Chief
      ScrumCrazy.com


    • Jesse Houwing
      Charles, Though it s not really helpful for you, I thought to share my experience in this area. A colleague is working on a sort of approach towards this. Not
      Message 2 of 16 , Mar 4 1:18 AM
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        Charles,

        Though it's not really helpful for you, I thought to share my experience in this area. A colleague is working on a sort of approach towards this. Not a book, but a collection of practices. So far I know he bumped into a lot of issues around the tooling that made it really hard to gradually grow and change the warehouse. And he bumped into a lot of issues due to the fact that the code usually *is* the database, making proper versioning and automation a real pain.

        This was especially so in older versions of the Microsoft SQL Server offerings, but Microsoft is fixing this rapidly. In SQL 2012 BI solutions, the GUID's that stitch these things together no longer change every time you hit save and SQL Server Data Tools are making it easier to sync your database to sourcecontrol and back, slowly taking the source out of the database. So far I've met a lot of resistance from the folks managing these databases, since they used to be the real owners of the source and responsible for the operations of the system. They usually look a lot deeper into what was deployed to 'their' servers, than the average operations team that receives a set of packaged binaries that make up a website.

        As a Team Foundation Server geek, I like the approach Microsoft has taken towards the creation and changes to the warehouse, they're building the warehouse from code and apply changes to the model as needed. This approach makes the database pretty flexible, but renders a lot of the standard tooling useless. And as far as I've been working in this area, most of the API's used to make this work (mostly under Microsoft.AnalysisService) are very scarcely documented. Not even GhostDoc'ed.

        When we have something to publish in this area I'll surely post a few links here. I guess that books providing a mix of a lot of traditional and not much on tooling usage will remain for some time. Around Microsoft Solutions, anything referencing older than SQL Server 2008r2 is not to be trusted. Anything related to 2012 might actually come close... :S.

        Jesse


        On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 7:50 AM, Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum Trainer and Coach <chuck-lists2@...> wrote:


        I have a client who is considering using Scrum in Data Warehousing(I won't be involved in that).  He knows how to use Google, but I was wondering if anyone had any *highly recommended resources*  for using Scrum in DW(books, blogs, ec).  He is fully aware of the Hughes book(which got a negative review from someone I trust), and I also have some info on Scott Ambler's work in this area.

        Anything else that you would *highly recommend*?
         
        -------
        Charles Bradley
        Scrum Coach-in-Chief
        ScrumCrazy.com





      • Richard Griffiths
        Oh dear Overheard this week - we d like you to put together a release plan for project x. No problem says I, going on about how we can size at the epic level,
        Message 3 of 16 , Mar 4 1:38 PM
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          Oh dear

           

          Overheard this week – we’d like you to put together a release plan for project x. No problem says I, going on about how we can size at the epic level, the cone of uncertainty, and how it will change.  I’ll get the team on it. Ah, we want you, the BA and architect to size it as it will be quicker. Blank look follows.

           

          I am still both annoyed and confused and the merlot ain’t helping.

           

          --

          Richard

           

          Speed is n0 subsitute fnor accurancy

        • George Dinwiddie
          Richard, ... In such situations, I don t know anything better to do than to fall back on traditional estimation methods: take your best guess, triple the
          Message 4 of 16 , Mar 4 2:00 PM
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            Richard,

            On 3/4/13 4:38 PM, Richard Griffiths wrote:
            >
            >
            > Oh dear
            >
            > Overheard this week – we’d like you to put together a release plan for
            > project x. No problem says I, going on about how we can size at the epic
            > level, the cone of uncertainty, and how it will change. I’ll get the
            > team on it. Ah, we want you, the BA and architect to size it as it will
            > be quicker. Blank look follows.
            >
            > I am still both annoyed and confused and the merlot ain’t helping.

            In such situations, I don't know anything better to do than to fall back
            on traditional estimation methods: take your best guess, triple the
            number, and increment the unit of measurement. E.g., if it looks like 6
            weeks work at first glance, tell them 18 months. It's surprising how
            accurate that is. :-)

            - George

            --
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------
            * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
            Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
            Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------
          • Mark Levison
            Ken Collier who I know through Cutter has done some work with clients on this. At one stage he threatened to write a book on it. Cheers Mark ... -- Cheers Mark
            Message 5 of 16 , Mar 4 2:06 PM
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              Ken Collier who I know through Cutter has done some work with clients on this. At one stage he threatened to write a book on it.

              Cheers
              Mark

              Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum Trainer and Coach wrote:
               
              I have a client who is considering using Scrum in Data Warehousing(I won't be involved in that).  He knows how to use Google, but I was wondering if anyone had any *highly recommended resources*  for using Scrum in DW(books, blogs, ec).  He is fully aware of the Hughes book(which got a negative review from someone I trust), and I also have some info on Scott Ambler's work in this area.

              Anything else that you would *highly recommend*?
               
              -------
              Charles Bradley
              Scrum Coach-in-Chief
              ScrumCrazy.com



              --
              Cheers
              Mark Levison
              Agile Pain Relief Consulting | Writing
              Proud Sponsor of Agile Tour Gatineau Ottawa Nov 28, Toronto 26 and Montreal
              24
            • theropas@q.com
              It might also help to switch from Merlot to old granddad Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID ... It might also help to switch from Merlot to old
              Message 6 of 16 , Mar 4 2:10 PM
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                It might also help to switch from Merlot to old granddad

                Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID


                George Dinwiddie <lists@...> wrote:

                Richard,

                On 3/4/13 4:38 PM, Richard Griffiths wrote:
                >
                >
                > Oh dear
                >
                > Overheard this week – we’d like you to put together a release plan for
                > project x. No problem says I, going on about how we can size at the epic
                > level, the cone of uncertainty, and how it will change.  I’ll get the
                > team on it. Ah, we want you, the BA and architect to size it as it will
                > be quicker. Blank look follows.
                >
                > I am still both annoyed and confused and the merlot ain’t helping.

                In such situations, I don't know anything better to do than to fall back
                on traditional estimation methods: take your best guess, triple the
                number, and increment the unit of measurement. E.g., if it looks like 6
                weeks work at first glance, tell them 18 months. It's surprising how
                accurate that is. :-)

                  - George

                --
                  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                   * George Dinwiddie *                      http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
                   Software Development                    http://www.idiacomputing.com
                   Consultant and Coach                    http://www.agilemaryland.org
                  ----------------------------------------------------------------------



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              • Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum Trai
                Or try Lee Henson s Rapid Release planning: http://www.agiledad.com/AgileMentor/RapidReleasePlanning.pdf You mostly just need slides 38-41.  Of course, this
                Message 7 of 16 , Mar 4 2:11 PM
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                  Or try Lee Henson's Rapid Release planning:
                  http://www.agiledad.com/AgileMentor/RapidReleasePlanning.pdf

                  You mostly just need slides 38-41. 

                  Of course, this doesn't solve the root problem.  The merlot might.  :-)

                  Just thought it might help to "sell" getting the whole team in a room to do it in an hour or two.
                   
                  -------
                  Charles Bradley
                  Scrum Coach-in-Chief
                  ScrumCrazy.com




                  From: George Dinwiddie <lists@...>
                  To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 3:00 PM
                  Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] release planning

                  Richard,

                  On 3/4/13 4:38 PM, Richard Griffiths wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Oh dear
                  >
                  > Overheard this week – we’d like you to put together a release plan for
                  > project x. No problem says I, going on about how we can size at the epic
                  > level, the cone of uncertainty, and how it will change.  I’ll get the
                  > team on it. Ah, we want you, the BA and architect to size it as it will
                  > be quicker. Blank look follows.
                  >
                  > I am still both annoyed and confused and the merlot ain’t helping.

                  In such situations, I don't know anything better to do than to fall back
                  on traditional estimation methods: take your best guess, triple the
                  number, and increment the unit of measurement. E.g., if it looks like 6
                  weeks work at first glance, tell them 18 months. It's surprising how
                  accurate that is. :-)

                    - George

                  --
                    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    * George Dinwiddie *                      http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
                    Software Development                    http://www.idiacomputing.com
                    Consultant and Coach                    http://www.agilemaryland.org
                    ----------------------------------------------------------------------



                  ------------------------------------

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                • Richard Griffiths
                  ... That was the originally suggested approach and will be done anyway, no matter what. I can’t get a sub-team to commit on behalf of the whole team.
                  Message 8 of 16 , Mar 4 2:29 PM
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                    >Just thought it might help to "sell" getting the whole team in a room to do it in an hour or two.

                     

                    That was the originally suggested approach and will be done anyway, no matter what. I can’t get a sub-team to commit on behalf of the whole team. That’s a pile of *spherical objects*

                     

                    Excellent slides!

                     

                    --

                    Richard

                     

                    Speed is n0 subsitute fnor accurancy

                  • Michael Vizdos
                    ... never does. But as long as it is a good Merlot -- enjoy! Here is a cartoon that may make you smile (at least for now):
                    Message 9 of 16 , Mar 4 2:30 PM
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                      ... never does.  But as long as it is a good Merlot -- enjoy!

                      Here is a cartoon that may make you smile (at least for now):

                      http://www.implementingscrum.com/2010/10/11/scrum-story-points-and-the-answers-to-the-universe/

                      - mike vizdos


                      On Monday, March 4, 2013, Richard Griffiths wrote:
                       

                      Oh dear

                       

                      Overheard this week – we’d like you to put together a release plan for project x. No problem says I, going on about how we can size at the epic level, the cone of uncertainty, and how it will change.  I’ll get the team on it. Ah, we want you, the BA and architect to size it as it will be quicker. Blank look follows.

                       

                      I am still both annoyed and confused and the merlot ain’t helping.

                       

                      --

                      Richard

                       

                      Speed is n0 subsitute fnor accurancy



                      --
                      Thank you.

                      - mike vizdos
                         www.michaelvizdos.com/contact

                    • Richard Griffiths
                      J -- Richard Speed is n0 subsitute fnor accurancy From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Vizdos
                      Message 10 of 16 , Mar 4 2:36 PM
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                        J

                         

                        --

                        Richard

                         

                        Speed is n0 subsitute fnor accurancy

                         

                        From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Vizdos
                        Sent: 04 March 2013 10:31
                        To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] release planning

                         

                         

                        ... never does.  But as long as it is a good Merlot -- enjoy!

                         

                        Here is a cartoon that may make you smile (at least for now):

                         

                        http://www.implementingscrum.com/2010/10/11/scrum-story-points-and-the-answers-to-the-universe/

                         

                        - mike vizdos



                        On Monday, March 4, 2013, Richard Griffiths wrote:

                         

                        Oh dear

                         

                        Overheard this week – we’d like you to put together a release plan for project x. No problem says I, going on about how we can size at the epic level, the cone of uncertainty, and how it will change.  I’ll get the team on it. Ah, we want you, the BA and architect to size it as it will be quicker. Blank look follows.

                         

                        I am still both annoyed and confused and the merlot ain’t helping.

                         

                        --

                        Richard

                         

                        Speed is n0 subsitute fnor accurancy



                        --

                        Thank you.

                        - mike vizdos
                           www.michaelvizdos.com/contact

                         

                      • Ryan Cromwell
                        And since now they know about the cone of uncertainty they won t have any misguided understandings about it s accuracy. Given a large enough estimate, your
                        Message 11 of 16 , Mar 4 6:31 PM
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                          And since now they know about the cone of uncertainty they won't have any misguided understandings about it's accuracy.  Given a large enough estimate, your bound to be within the margin of error.  

                          If they still feel the return will be worth it... now the team get's it's short at continually providing updated estimate ranges based on rubber & road.
                        • Nirmala Jegadheesan
                          I agree, the most uncertain, seemingly infinite task is Relase planning but keep in mind you need not COMPLETE it in first sitting. Make large stories, do
                          Message 12 of 16 , Mar 4 9:45 PM
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                            I agree, the most uncertain, seemingly infinite task is "Relase planning" but keep in mind you need not "COMPLETE" it in first sitting. Make large stories, do 3 times the estimate and finish it soon. When working on sprint planning you can me more elaborate and accurate.
                            All the best!
                            Regards,
                            Nirmala

                            From: Richard Griffiths <richard@...>
                            To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 3:08 AM
                            Subject: [scrumdevelopment] release planning
                             
                            Oh dear
                             
                            Overheard this week – we’d like you to put together a release plan for project x. No problem says I, going on about how we can size at the epic level, the cone of uncertainty, and how it will change.  I’ll get the team on it. Ah, we want you, the BA and architect to size it as it will be quicker. Blank look follows.
                             
                            I am still both annoyed and confused and the merlot ain’t helping.
                             
                            --
                            Richard
                             
                            Speed is n0 subsitute fnor accurancy
                          • Cheng, Richard
                            I have heard good things about the Ken Collier book,
                            Message 13 of 16 , Mar 6 11:42 AM
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                              I also have some colleagues who are giving an Agile BI class in early April in the Washington, DC area.  If you are interested, take a look at http://agile-bi-dc.eventbrite.com/

                              Good luck,
                              ------------------------------
                              Richard K Cheng, CST, PMP, PMI-ACP
                              Principal & Agile Center of Excellence, Lead
                              Excella Consulting
                              richard.cheng@... 
                              703-967-8620
                              twitter: @RichardKCheng


                              From: Mark Levison <mark@...>
                              Reply-To: "scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com" <scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com>
                              Date: Monday, March 4, 2013 5:06 PM
                              To: "scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com" <scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com>
                              Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum in Data Warehousing?

                               

                              Ken Collier who I know through Cutter has done some work with clients on this. At one stage he threatened to write a book on it.

                              Cheers
                              Mark

                              Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum Trainer and Coach wrote:

                               
                              I have a client who is considering using Scrum in Data Warehousing(I won't be involved in that).  He knows how to use Google, but I was wondering if anyone had any *highly recommended resources*  for using Scrum in DW(books, blogs, ec).  He is fully aware of the Hughes book(which got a negative review from someone I trust), and I also have some info on Scott Ambler's work in this area.

                              Anything else that you would *highly recommend*?
                               
                              -------
                              Charles Bradley
                              Scrum Coach-in-Chief
                              ScrumCrazy.com



                              --
                              Cheers
                              Mark Levison
                              Agile Pain Relief Consulting | Writing
                              Proud Sponsor of Agile Tour Gatineau Ottawa Nov 28, Toronto 26 and Montreal
                              24

                            • Richard Griffiths
                              All Interesting epic sizing meeting with the team today. We did relative sizing and then assigned them t-shirt values. Then we assigned them points based on
                              Message 14 of 16 , Mar 6 2:26 PM
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                                All

                                 

                                Interesting epic sizing meeting with the team today. We did relative sizing and then assigned them t-shirt values. Then we assigned them points based on planning poker multiplied by 10. Now I know there’s a chance of gaming the values, but some of the epics point sizes matched quite well with previous equivalent epics. The problem arose with larger epic sizes, which was unsurprising due to complexity and some of them being mixed buckets of work. A good first pass, giving us plenty of time to review the epics, split and start grooming the stories. The fact that stakeholders will probably have a heart attack is another matter.

                                 

                                I’d be interested to see if people think it is worth sizing epics at the t-shirt level and then trying to map story points to them? I’ll be doing the same tomorrow with a more established team so will be interested to see the difference.

                                 

                                --

                                Richard

                                 

                                Speed is n0 subsitute fnor accurancy

                              • Gary Brown
                                ... From a much different context: Fast is fine, accuracy is final. - Wyatt Earp 8^) GB. ... This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
                                Message 15 of 16 , Mar 6 3:09 PM
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                                  Quoting Richard Griffiths <richard@...>:

                                  >
                                  > Speed is n0 subsitute fnor accurancy
                                  >
                                  >

                                  From a much different context:

                                  Fast is fine, accuracy is final.
                                  - Wyatt Earp

                                  8^)

                                  GB.




                                  ----------------------------------------------------------------
                                  This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
                                • Kevin Callahan
                                  I guess it depends what you re hoping to gain by spending time sizing epics? I ll also say that release planning has been one of the most difficult
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Mar 6 3:09 PM
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                                    I guess it depends what you're hoping to gain by spending time sizing epics? I'll also say that release planning has been one of the most difficult organizational problems to solve. One option, and this is at risk of hijacking the thread, is to ask a different question: what is the minimum we can do right now to push value out the door?

                                    The teams I work with have seen a lot of value in just-in-time estimation; as long as the next sprint's work is prioritized, groomed, and estimated, there's not a tremendous amount of effort put into additional stories. Lean has deeply influenced my thinking on this, particularly the emphasis on eliminating time delays between story state changes; I realize this is not universal, and varies greatly depending where an app is in its lifecycle, among a whole slew of other important variables.

                                    In short, from your message it *seems* like maybe there's a bit too much planning, and perhaps not enough stakeholder involvement, to be able to clearly prioritize exactly what is next, and then break only that part down. Stakeholders *should* be excited and eager that their needs are being met, though if there's not alignment at the stakeholder level, well, that's another issue ;)

                                    Hope that helps…

                                    -k


                                    On Mar 6, 2013, at 2:26 PM, Richard Griffiths wrote:

                                     

                                    All

                                     

                                    Interesting epic sizing meeting with the team today. We did relative sizing and then assigned them t-shirt values. Then we assigned them points based on planning poker multiplied by 10. Now I know there’s a chance of gaming the values, but some of the epics point sizes matched quite well with previous equivalent epics. The problem arose with larger epic sizes, which was unsurprising due to complexity and some of them being mixed buckets of work. A good first pass, giving us plenty of time to review the epics, split and start grooming the stories. The fact that stakeholders will probably have a heart attack is another matter.

                                     

                                    I’d be interested to see if people think it is worth sizing epics at the t-shirt level and then trying to map story points to them? I’ll be doing the same tomorrow with a more established team so will be interested to see the difference.

                                     

                                    --

                                    Richard

                                     

                                    Speed is n0 subsitute fnor accurancy



                                    Kevin Callahan
                                    Scrum Master & Agile Coach
                                    LiveWorld Inc.

                                    Mobile+1 (207) 691-2997
                                    Emailkcallahan@...
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                                    Webwww.liveworld.com

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