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RE: [scrumdevelopment] Questions about shifting from traditional project management to SCRUM

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  • Jean Richardson
    We wade here into the challenge of people in PMO’s being enculturated to work one way and agile struggling to enculturate people to work another. Training
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 28, 2013
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      We wade here into the challenge of people in PMO’s being enculturated to work one way and agile struggling to enculturate people to work another.  Training can help, but rarely does it actually change culture, especially overnight.  The project controlling piece that Ron was concerned about below is an example of this culture shift.  The Scrum Master is a process facilitator, not a team or project controller.  Mahmood pointed to some good references to help with cultural change.  Sahota’s book points specifically to the challenges of introducing agile from a cultural perspective.

       

      It’s important to be aware of it when we are simply frosting old behaviors and attitudes with new terms and role names.  It’s also very difficult. 

       

      There is such a thing as an agile PMO.  I finally went and dug up one of Cohn’s very good articles on this topic as this thread has continued:  http://www.mountaingoatsoftware.com/articles/the-roles-of-the-project-management-office-in-scrum

       

      ---- Jean

       

      From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nirmala Jegadheesan
      Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 11:57 PM
      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Questions about shifting from traditional project management to SCRUM

       

       

      Ron,

        In practical situations, the Scrum Master cannot stop from just advising the team. When the team is new and immature regarding the agile processes the Scrm master should do some hand holding until the team sets itself on the roll. Usually the Scrum Master organizes the retrospective meetings and track the decsions if implemented properly within the team. When there is a new process coming up, the PMO team should take up these roles inorder to mingle with the team and the process.

      Regards,

      Nirmala

       

      From: Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@...>
      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 1:52 AM
      Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Questions about shifting from traditional project management to SCRUM

       

      Nirmala,

      On Feb 24, 2013, at 8:03 AM, Nirmala Jegadheesan <jnirmala@...> wrote:

      Either a project or a product the team would require a SCRUM master who actually does the "Project Controlling " part. Hence based on the project style the PMO members can get distributed among the SCRUM teams and take up roles like SCRUM MASter, Product owner or Retrospective Handler. But in all the cases, the involvment given by the PMO team in SCRUM methods would be more deeper and clearer than when you have performed in tradional methods. Can explain in detail if you have more questions.

       

      I don't understand. The ScrumMaster is not supposed to do any "controlling" as far as I know. And I'm not aware of the role "Retrospective Handler" at all.


      Ron Jeffries

      I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way.  -- Jessica Rabbit

    • Ali H. Moghadam
      Nirmala, I think the old style PMOs are not good candidates for ScramMaster role, as the SM should have a good understanding of servant leadership and scrum
      Message 2 of 13 , Mar 1, 2013
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        Nirmala,

        I think the old style PMOs are not good candidates for ScramMaster role, as the SM should have a good understanding of servant leadership and scrum rules. The nearest role to a Project Manager in scrum is Product Owner, who is responsible for the product, the priorities, and the plan. The only difference is he has not any authority over the team, but the product backlog.

        If the team is not mature, maybe they should not start doing any project at all! In this situation, I recommend to hire a Scrum Coach, instead of forcing the scram master to do Command-and-control and take the responsibility of the team.

        -Ali


        On Feb 28, 2013, at 11:27 AM, Nirmala Jegadheesan <jnirmala@...> wrote:

         

        Ron,
          In practical situations, the Scrum Master cannot stop from just advising the team. When the team is new and immature regarding the agile processes the Scrm master should do some hand holding until the team sets itself on the roll. Usually the Scrum Master organizes the retrospective meetings and track the decsions if implemented properly within the team. When there is a new process coming up, the PMO team should take up these roles inorder to mingle with the team and the process.
        Regards,
        Nirmala

        From: Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@...>
        To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 1:52 AM
        Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Questions about shifting from traditional project management to SCRUM
         
        Nirmala,
        On Feb 24, 2013, at 8:03 AM, Nirmala Jegadheesan <jnirmala@...> wrote:
        Either a project or a product the team would require a SCRUM master who actually does the "Project Controlling " part. Hence based on the project style the PMO members can get distributed among the SCRUM teams and take up roles like SCRUM MASter, Product owner or Retrospective Handler. But in all the cases, the involvment given by the PMO team in SCRUM methods would be more deeper and clearer than when you have performed in tradional methods. Can explain in detail if you have more questions.

        I don't understand. The ScrumMaster is not supposed to do any "controlling" as far as I know. And I'm not aware of the role "Retrospective Handler" at all.

        Ron Jeffries
        I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way.  -- Jessica Rabbit

      • Nirmala Jegadheesan
        Ali,    Coaching the team for Acrum practices is essential and inevitable for anybody before jumping into it. If my answer sounded for skipping it I am
        Message 3 of 13 , Mar 2, 2013
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          Ali,
             Coaching the team for Acrum practices is essential and inevitable for anybody before jumping into it. If my answer sounded for skipping it I am sorry. Any level or size of company do the scrum coaching before they take it up. But handling immature teams is almost happens everywhere. With some good handholding, training and expert process tailoring within 5-6 sprints the team can come to a speed. I have worked with teams where a properly trained scrum master himself training the teams and do the handholding. Hope this helps.
          Regards,
          Nirmala

          From: Ali H. Moghadam <ali.moghadam@...>
          To: "scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com" <scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com>
          Cc: "scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com" <scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 2:17 PM
          Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Questions about shifting from traditional project management to SCRUM
           

          Nirmala,

          I think the old style PMOs are not good candidates for ScramMaster role, as the SM should have a good understanding of servant leadership and scrum rules. The nearest role to a Project Manager in scrum is Product Owner, who is responsible for the product, the priorities, and the plan. The only difference is he has not any authority over the team, but the product backlog.

          If the team is not mature, maybe they should not start doing any project at all! In this situation, I recommend to hire a Scrum Coach, instead of forcing the scram master to do Command-and-control and take the responsibility of the team.

          -Ali
          On Feb 28, 2013, at 11:27 AM, Nirmala Jegadheesan <jnirmala@...> wrote:
           
          Ron,
            In practical situations, the Scrum Master cannot stop from just advising the team. When the team is new and immature regarding the agile processes the Scrm master should do some hand holding until the team sets itself on the roll. Usually the Scrum Master organizes the retrospective meetings and track the decsions if implemented properly within the team. When there is a new process coming up, the PMO team should take up these roles inorder to mingle with the team and the process.
          Regards,
          Nirmala

          From: Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@...>
          To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 1:52 AM
          Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Questions about shifting from traditional project management to SCRUM
           
          Nirmala,
          On Feb 24, 2013, at 8:03 AM, Nirmala Jegadheesan <jnirmala@...> wrote:
          Either a project or a product the team would require a SCRUM master who actually does the "Project Controlling " part. Hence based on the project style the PMO members can get distributed among the SCRUM teams and take up roles like SCRUM MASter, Product owner or Retrospective Handler. But in all the cases, the involvment given by the PMO team in SCRUM methods would be more deeper and clearer than when you have performed in tradional methods. Can explain in detail if you have more questions.

          I don't understand. The ScrumMaster is not supposed to do any "controlling" as far as I know. And I'm not aware of the role "Retrospective Handler" at all.

          Ron Jeffries
          I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way.  -- Jessica Rabbit
        • M.Jalilnejad
          ​Sorry for late response Jean, ... As I said before I see each process just a tool in our toolbox, they are powerful tools to speed up our work, but we must
          Message 4 of 13 , Mar 4, 2013
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            ​Sorry for late response Jean,​
            On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 5:05 PM, Jean Richardson <jean@...> wrote:
            “Use your power tools properly” puts me in mind of
            ​​
            chainsaws and
            ​​
            Shop Smiths.  Could you enlighten me about these “power tools,” Mahmood?

            As I said before I see each process just a tool in our toolbox, they are powerful tools to speed up our work, but we must know when and how to use them. if they used in an appropriate way they will do a magic, if not they will be a threat as Kevin Callahan said:​
            ​Seriously though, I take "power tools" to equate to "tools and processes". Power tools are great, when they're appropriate and in the hands of competent operators​. They quickly become incredibly dangerous and a threat to work well-done lacking this expertise

            ​Regards
            Mahmood Jalilnejad,
            An Agile friend
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