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Re: [scrumdevelopment] Yahoo bans working from home. Command and control, or reasonable constraint?

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  • Silvana Wasitova
    As an ex-Yahoo, one who worked with several distributed teams there, including several work-from-home arrangements, i think Marissa is right in emphasizing the
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 27, 2013
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      As an ex-Yahoo, one who worked with several distributed teams there, including several work-from-home arrangements,
      i think Marissa is right in emphasizing the importance of collaboration.   
      While in some commentaries Marissa's edict has been skewed as "total ban on WFH", I expect that the occasional "my child is sick" situations would continue to be accommodated - Yahoo has an accommodating culture.  I won't even be surprised if the actual implementation will include variants of: "need to spend a minimum of 2 or 3 days per week at the office".

      As a Scrum Coach, I think she's right to look for ways to increase collaboration so as to build better products (and business). 
      Is a total ban needed? Or, more pragmatically, will a total ban be instituted?  We'll see, or we can speculate. :)
       
      --
      Silvana Wasitova |  wasitova@... | Lausanne, Switzerland | +41 79 558 0509
      Skype: wasitova | LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/wasitova


      From: Michael James <mj4scrum@...>
      To: "scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com" <scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 9:35 AM
      Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Yahoo bans working from home. Command and control, or reasonable constraint?

       
      A few years ago I worked with a situation that still puzzles me. A company in Manhattan asked for help doing Scrum with four or five teams. Most of my suggestions were uncontroversial, until I suggested moving people closer to their Scrum teams instead of their former departments. The coders all had desks near windows, while the testers were all clustered in the lower-status area toward the center of the building. Naively taking their claimed interest in Scrum at face value, I'd stepped on a huge landmine that pitted their pro-Scrum VP against a couple senior developers who'd been there since the company was founded. The VP quoted my own training about self organization occurring *within constraints* (timeboxing, clear Sprint goals, clear team membership, etc.), and felt that proper colocation was just one of those necessary constraints. A senior dev (with a nice window) fired back that this was command and control, not an appropriate "constraint." (I remember he used scare quotes around the word constraint.)

      And then *one of the QA people* (who would have been getting a more coveted location) sided with the senior coders in opposing the reseating!

      I don't know or recall how they worked all that out, but I did hear a year later they fired one of those founding devs because they couldn't get her to collaborate.

      Anyway, that constraint vs. command and control argument reminds me of this situation at Yahoo everyone except this list has been discussing:

      http://www.businessinsider.com/ex-yahoos-confess-marissa-mayer-is-right-to-ban-working-from-home-2013-2

      --mj
      http://ScrumTrainingSeries.com/


    • Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum Trai
      The most efficient and effective method of conveying information to and within a development team is face-to-face conversation. Agile Teams are not self
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 27, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        "The most efficient and effective method of conveying information to and within a development team is face-to-face conversation. "

        Agile Teams are not self managing, they are self organizing.  Characterizing her decision as "command and control", or that of the VP in the anecdote, is pretty ridiculous, in my view.  Making leadership decisions does not equal "command and control."  People who call that kind of decision C&C have obviously never been in a "boot camp" type of situation or experienced a true C&C leadership style. 

        Last time I checked, distributed teams are quite known for greatly under performing co-located ones.  This is a great decision -- whether it will help save Yahoo ... I dunno.

        I'm glad Marissa is "going Agile."  :-) 
         
        -------
        Charles Bradley
        Scrum Coach-in-Chief
        ScrumCrazy.com




        From: Silvana Wasitova <wasitova@...>
        To: "scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com" <scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 5:52 AM
        Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Yahoo bans working from home. Command and control, or reasonable constraint?



        As an ex-Yahoo, one who worked with several distributed teams there, including several work-from-home arrangements,
        i think Marissa is right in emphasizing the importance of collaboration.   
        While in some commentaries Marissa's edict has been skewed as "total ban on WFH", I expect that the occasional "my child is sick" situations would continue to be accommodated - Yahoo has an accommodating culture.  I won't even be surprised if the actual implementation will include variants of: "need to spend a minimum of 2 or 3 days per week at the office".

        As a Scrum Coach, I think she's right to look for ways to increase collaboration so as to build better products (and business). 
        Is a total ban needed? Or, more pragmatically, will a total ban be instituted?  We'll see, or we can speculate. :)
         
        --
        Silvana Wasitova |  wasitova@... | Lausanne, Switzerland | +41 79 558 0509
        Skype: wasitova | LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/wasitova


        From: Michael James <mj4scrum@...>
        To: "scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com" <scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 9:35 AM
        Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Yahoo bans working from home. Command and control, or reasonable constraint?

         
        A few years ago I worked with a situation that still puzzles me. A company in Manhattan asked for help doing Scrum with four or five teams. Most of my suggestions were uncontroversial, until I suggested moving people closer to their Scrum teams instead of their former departments. The coders all had desks near windows, while the testers were all clustered in the lower-status area toward the center of the building. Naively taking their claimed interest in Scrum at face value, I'd stepped on a huge landmine that pitted their pro-Scrum VP against a couple senior developers who'd been there since the company was founded. The VP quoted my own training about self organization occurring *within constraints* (timeboxing, clear Sprint goals, clear team membership, etc.), and felt that proper colocation was just one of those necessary constraints. A senior dev (with a nice window) fired back that this was command and control, not an appropriate "constraint." (I remember he used scare quotes around the word constraint.)

        And then *one of the QA people* (who would have been getting a more coveted location) sided with the senior coders in opposing the reseating!

        I don't know or recall how they worked all that out, but I did hear a year later they fired one of those founding devs because they couldn't get her to collaborate.

        Anyway, that constraint vs. command and control argument reminds me of this situation at Yahoo everyone except this list has been discussing:

        http://www.businessinsider.com/ex-yahoos-confess-marissa-mayer-is-right-to-ban-working-from-home-2013-2

        --mj
        http://ScrumTrainingSeries.com/






      • Alex Chastinet
        I think she is not going Agile with this kind of behavior:
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 27, 2013
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          2013/2/27 Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum Trainer and Coach <chuck-lists2@...>
           

          "The most efficient and effective method of conveying information to and within a development team is face-to-face conversation. "

          Agile Teams are not self managing, they are self organizing.  Characterizing her decision as "command and control", or that of the VP in the anecdote, is pretty ridiculous, in my view.  Making leadership decisions does not equal "command and control."  People who call that kind of decision C&C have obviously never been in a "boot camp" type of situation or experienced a true C&C leadership style. 

          Last time I checked, distributed teams are quite known for greatly under performing co-located ones.  This is a great decision -- whether it will help save Yahoo ... I dunno.

          I'm glad Marissa is "going Agile."  :-) 
           
          -------
          Charles Bradley
          Scrum Coach-in-Chief
          ScrumCrazy.com




          From: Silvana Wasitova <wasitova@...>
          To: "scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com" <scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 5:52 AM
          Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Yahoo bans working from home. Command and control, or reasonable constraint?



          As an ex-Yahoo, one who worked with several distributed teams there, including several work-from-home arrangements,
          i think Marissa is right in emphasizing the importance of collaboration.   
          While in some commentaries Marissa's edict has been skewed as "total ban on WFH", I expect that the occasional "my child is sick" situations would continue to be accommodated - Yahoo has an accommodating culture.  I won't even be surprised if the actual implementation will include variants of: "need to spend a minimum of 2 or 3 days per week at the office".

          As a Scrum Coach, I think she's right to look for ways to increase collaboration so as to build better products (and business). 
          Is a total ban needed? Or, more pragmatically, will a total ban be instituted?  We'll see, or we can speculate. :)
           
          --
          Silvana Wasitova |  wasitova@... | Lausanne, Switzerland | +41 79 558 0509
          Skype: wasitova | LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/wasitova


          From: Michael James <mj4scrum@...>
          To: "scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com" <scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 9:35 AM
          Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Yahoo bans working from home. Command and control, or reasonable constraint?

           
          A few years ago I worked with a situation that still puzzles me. A company in Manhattan asked for help doing Scrum with four or five teams. Most of my suggestions were uncontroversial, until I suggested moving people closer to their Scrum teams instead of their former departments. The coders all had desks near windows, while the testers were all clustered in the lower-status area toward the center of the building. Naively taking their claimed interest in Scrum at face value, I'd stepped on a huge landmine that pitted their pro-Scrum VP against a couple senior developers who'd been there since the company was founded. The VP quoted my own training about self organization occurring *within constraints* (timeboxing, clear Sprint goals, clear team membership, etc.), and felt that proper colocation was just one of those necessary constraints. A senior dev (with a nice window) fired back that this was command and control, not an appropriate "constraint." (I remember he used scare quotes around the word constraint.)

          And then *one of the QA people* (who would have been getting a more coveted location) sided with the senior coders in opposing the reseating!

          I don't know or recall how they worked all that out, but I did hear a year later they fired one of those founding devs because they couldn't get her to collaborate.

          Anyway, that constraint vs. command and control argument reminds me of this situation at Yahoo everyone except this list has been discussing:

          http://www.businessinsider.com/ex-yahoos-confess-marissa-mayer-is-right-to-ban-working-from-home-2013-2

          --mj
          http://ScrumTrainingSeries.com/







        • Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum Trai
          Alex, Could you explain more about what you mean by this? ... I do not in any way understand what you are saying.   ... Charles Bradley Scrum Coach-in-Chief
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 27, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Alex,

            Could you explain more about what you mean by this?

            > I think she is not "going Agile" with this kind of behavior:

            I do not in any way understand what you are saying.
             
            -------
            Charles Bradley
            Scrum Coach-in-Chief
            ScrumCrazy.com




            From: Alex Chastinet <alexchastinet@...>
            To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 8:15 AM
            Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Yahoo bans working from home. Command and control, or reasonable constraint?





            2013/2/27 Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum Trainer and Coach <chuck-lists2@...>
             
            "The most efficient and effective method of conveying information to and within a development team is face-to-face conversation. "

            Agile Teams are not self managing, they are self organizing.  Characterizing her decision as "command and control", or that of the VP in the anecdote, is pretty ridiculous, in my view.  Making leadership decisions does not equal "command and control."  People who call that kind of decision C&C have obviously never been in a "boot camp" type of situation or experienced a true C&C leadership style. 

            Last time I checked, distributed teams are quite known for greatly under performing co-located ones.  This is a great decision -- whether it will help save Yahoo ... I dunno.

            I'm glad Marissa is "going Agile."  :-) 
             
            -------
            Charles Bradley
            Scrum Coach-in-Chief
            ScrumCrazy.com




            From: Silvana Wasitova <wasitova@...>
            To: "scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com" <scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 5:52 AM
            Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Yahoo bans working from home. Command and control, or reasonable constraint?



            As an ex-Yahoo, one who worked with several distributed teams there, including several work-from-home arrangements,
            i think Marissa is right in emphasizing the importance of collaboration.   
            While in some commentaries Marissa's edict has been skewed as "total ban on WFH", I expect that the occasional "my child is sick" situations would continue to be accommodated - Yahoo has an accommodating culture.  I won't even be surprised if the actual implementation will include variants of: "need to spend a minimum of 2 or 3 days per week at the office".

            As a Scrum Coach, I think she's right to look for ways to increase collaboration so as to build better products (and business). 
            Is a total ban needed? Or, more pragmatically, will a total ban be instituted?  We'll see, or we can speculate. :)
             
            --
            Silvana Wasitova |  wasitova@... | Lausanne, Switzerland | +41 79 558 0509
            Skype: wasitova | LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/wasitova


            From: Michael James <mj4scrum@...>
            To: "scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com" <scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 9:35 AM
            Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Yahoo bans working from home. Command and control, or reasonable constraint?

             
            A few years ago I worked with a situation that still puzzles me. A company in Manhattan asked for help doing Scrum with four or five teams. Most of my suggestions were uncontroversial, until I suggested moving people closer to their Scrum teams instead of their former departments. The coders all had desks near windows, while the testers were all clustered in the lower-status area toward the center of the building. Naively taking their claimed interest in Scrum at face value, I'd stepped on a huge landmine that pitted their pro-Scrum VP against a couple senior developers who'd been there since the company was founded. The VP quoted my own training about self organization occurring *within constraints* (timeboxing, clear Sprint goals, clear team membership, etc.), and felt that proper colocation was just one of those necessary constraints. A senior dev (with a nice window) fired back that this was command and control, not an appropriate "constraint." (I remember he used scare quotes around the word constraint.)

            And then *one of the QA people* (who would have been getting a more coveted location) sided with the senior coders in opposing the reseating!

            I don't know or recall how they worked all that out, but I did hear a year later they fired one of those founding devs because they couldn't get her to collaborate.

            Anyway, that constraint vs. command and control argument reminds me of this situation at Yahoo everyone except this list has been discussing:

            http://www.businessinsider.com/ex-yahoos-confess-marissa-mayer-is-right-to-ban-working-from-home-2013-2

            --mj
            http://ScrumTrainingSeries.com/











          • Paul Hudson
            You are assuming that going to the office means the people will be co-located. In my company, if I started going to the office, I d still be the only person in
            Message 5 of 13 , Feb 27, 2013
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              You are assuming that going to the office means the people will be co-located.

              In my company, if I started going to the office, I'd still be the only person in my team there.

              So I hope the mandate is a bit more nuanced than the headline and it's about encouraging or requiring co-located teams. If it really is just "you must be in a a Yahoo office regardless", no so good.


              On 27 February 2013 14:59, Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum Trainer and Coach <chuck-lists2@...> wrote:
               

              "The most efficient and effective method of conveying information to and within a development team is face-to-face conversation. "

              Agile Teams are not self managing, they are self organizing.  Characterizing her decision as "command and control", or that of the VP in the anecdote, is pretty ridiculous, in my view.  Making leadership decisions does not equal "command and control."  People who call that kind of decision C&C have obviously never been in a "boot camp" type of situation or experienced a true C&C leadership style. 

              Last time I checked, distributed teams are quite known for greatly under performing co-located ones.  This is a great decision -- whether it will help save Yahoo ... I dunno.

              I'm glad Marissa is "going Agile."  :-) 
               
              -------
              Charles Bradley
              Scrum Coach-in-Chief
              ScrumCrazy.com




              From: Silvana Wasitova <wasitova@...>
              To: "scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com" <scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 5:52 AM
              Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Yahoo bans working from home. Command and control, or reasonable constraint?



              As an ex-Yahoo, one who worked with several distributed teams there, including several work-from-home arrangements,
              i think Marissa is right in emphasizing the importance of collaboration.   
              While in some commentaries Marissa's edict has been skewed as "total ban on WFH", I expect that the occasional "my child is sick" situations would continue to be accommodated - Yahoo has an accommodating culture.  I won't even be surprised if the actual implementation will include variants of: "need to spend a minimum of 2 or 3 days per week at the office".

              As a Scrum Coach, I think she's right to look for ways to increase collaboration so as to build better products (and business). 
              Is a total ban needed? Or, more pragmatically, will a total ban be instituted?  We'll see, or we can speculate. :)
               
              --
              Silvana Wasitova |  wasitova@... | Lausanne, Switzerland | +41 79 558 0509
              Skype: wasitova | LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/wasitova


              From: Michael James <mj4scrum@...>
              To: "scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com" <scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 9:35 AM
              Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Yahoo bans working from home. Command and control, or reasonable constraint?

               
              A few years ago I worked with a situation that still puzzles me. A company in Manhattan asked for help doing Scrum with four or five teams. Most of my suggestions were uncontroversial, until I suggested moving people closer to their Scrum teams instead of their former departments. The coders all had desks near windows, while the testers were all clustered in the lower-status area toward the center of the building. Naively taking their claimed interest in Scrum at face value, I'd stepped on a huge landmine that pitted their pro-Scrum VP against a couple senior developers who'd been there since the company was founded. The VP quoted my own training about self organization occurring *within constraints* (timeboxing, clear Sprint goals, clear team membership, etc.), and felt that proper colocation was just one of those necessary constraints. A senior dev (with a nice window) fired back that this was command and control, not an appropriate "constraint." (I remember he used scare quotes around the word constraint.)

              And then *one of the QA people* (who would have been getting a more coveted location) sided with the senior coders in opposing the reseating!

              I don't know or recall how they worked all that out, but I did hear a year later they fired one of those founding devs because they couldn't get her to collaborate.

              Anyway, that constraint vs. command and control argument reminds me of this situation at Yahoo everyone except this list has been discussing:

              http://www.businessinsider.com/ex-yahoos-confess-marissa-mayer-is-right-to-ban-working-from-home-2013-2

              --mj
              http://ScrumTrainingSeries.com/







            • Alex Chastinet
              Charles, Marisa has broken at least one principle of Agile Manifesto: * Build projects around motivated individuals. Give them the environment and support they
              Message 6 of 13 , Feb 27, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                Charles,

                Marisa has broken at least one principle of Agile Manifesto:

                "Build projects around motivated individuals. 
                Give them the environment and support they need, 
                and trust them to get the job done."

                She is not supporting the need of employees that gave birth, only hers.




              • Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum Trai
                Really, Agile is about supporting employees with nurseries and other child care benefits? I m sorry, but that s a very far stretch IMO.  I don t think that is
                Message 7 of 13 , Feb 27, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  Really, Agile is about supporting employees with nurseries and other child care benefits?

                  I'm sorry, but that's a very far stretch IMO.  I don't think that is what the AM authors had in mind.  Is Agile a "nanny state" organization all of the sudden?
                   
                  -------
                  Charles Bradley
                  Scrum Coach-in-Chief
                  ScrumCrazy.com




                  From: Alex Chastinet <alexchastinet@...>
                  To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 9:00 AM
                  Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Yahoo bans working from home. Command and control, or reasonable constraint?



                  Charles,

                  Marisa has broken at least one principle of Agile Manifesto:

                  "Build projects around motivated individuals. 
                  Give them the environment and support they need, 
                  and trust them to get the job done."

                  She is not supporting the need of employees that gave birth, only hers.








                • Bret Wortman
                  I think that s a bit of a stretch, though I might agree that this move, given her own resources and modifications, might be politically difficult. There are
                  Message 8 of 13 , Feb 27, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I think that's a bit of a stretch, though I might agree that this move, given her own resources and modifications, might be politically difficult. There are perqs to being higher on the corporate food chain and we all know that.



                    On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 11:15 AM, Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum Trainer and Coach <chuck-lists2@...> wrote:
                     

                    Really, Agile is about supporting employees with nurseries and other child care benefits?

                    I'm sorry, but that's a very far stretch IMO.  I don't think that is what the AM authors had in mind.  Is Agile a "nanny state" organization all of the sudden?
                     
                    -------
                    Charles Bradley
                    Scrum Coach-in-Chief
                    ScrumCrazy.com




                    From: Alex Chastinet <alexchastinet@...>
                    To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 9:00 AM

                    Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Yahoo bans working from home. Command and control, or reasonable constraint?



                    Charles,

                    Marisa has broken at least one principle of Agile Manifesto:

                    "Build projects around motivated individuals. 
                    Give them the environment and support they need, 
                    and trust them to get the job done."

                    She is not supporting the need of employees that gave birth, only hers.









                  • Jean Richardson
                    Michael, you re a braver man than I am-plopping that link into this group. I saw the story last weekend and thought about posting it but decided that life is
                    Message 9 of 13 , Feb 27, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment

                      Michael, you’re a braver man than I am—plopping that link into this group.  I saw the story last weekend and thought about posting it but decided that life is too short as it is.

                       

                      The whole telecommuting issue has been a hot one since well before agile teams became as prevalent as they are today.  Leading a distributed team takes different skills than leading a co-located team.  And, certainly, face-to-face is better than email—which begs the question of why this mailing list is not a Google Hangout, for instance.

                       

                      I’ve coached co-located and highly distributed teams.  They can be more or less effective depending on the team, their skills and discipline, and the technical infrastructure that supports them. 

                       

                      One client I spent all last summer with working with four virtual teams had such a shaky infrastructure that conference calls *routinely* went down every day.  Video calls were not even an option.  Sometimes whole sections of the network went down and whole teams would blacked out.  You can bet that caused a plethora of problems—especially on Planning Day.  The same set of four teams needed to come together to do a reset at the beginning of the engagement in order to build trust; many of them had never met each other.  People need to be able to see each other at least once to do some smelling and touching and relationship building.  (Okay, I’m being metaphorical about the smelling and touching part.)

                       

                      When things aren’t going well, we particularly need to see each other’s faces—at least in a video call.  But if we have already built a relationship that can stand the storms that occur during a sprint, then face-to-face is maybe not so important as long as we also have good virtual teaming skills.

                       

                      Remember that Benjamin Franklin was pretty darn effective in support of the revolution through letter writing, and Madison and Jefferson did pretty well in building the foundation we now elaborate on, as well.  Important work can be done when we are not face-to-face, but it does take other skills than we employ when we are face-to-face, and we do have to have a reliable infrastructure to support the process.

                       

                      Whether Yahoo’s VP of HR is making a command and control move, well, it DOES sound like a reasonable constraint to me in a struggling organization as long as it is appropriately nuanced.  I was amused to read in one article that there are some Yahooligans, or whatever they call themselves, working at home and getting paid that no one knows about.   Sounds to me like they have other problems at least as big as lack of face-to-face communication on teams.

                       

                      --- Jean

                       

                      From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum Trainer and Coach
                      Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 8:15 AM
                      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Yahoo bans working from home. Command and control, or reasonable constraint?

                       

                       

                      Really, Agile is about supporting employees with nurseries and other child care benefits?

                       

                      I'm sorry, but that's a very far stretch IMO.  I don't think that is what the AM authors had in mind.  Is Agile a "nanny state" organization all of the sudden?

                       

                      -------
                      Charles Bradley
                      Scrum Coach-in-Chief
                      ScrumCrazy.com

                       

                       


                      From: Alex Chastinet <alexchastinet@...>
                      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 9:00 AM
                      Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Yahoo bans working from home. Command and control, or reasonable constraint?

                       

                       

                      Charles,

                       

                      Marisa has broken at least one principle of Agile Manifesto:

                       

                      "Build projects around motivated individuals. 
                      Give them the environment and support they need, 
                      and trust them to get the job done."

                       

                      She is not supporting the need of employees that gave birth, only hers.

                       

                       

                       

                       

                       

                       

                    • Michael James
                      ... Was Ken mistaken when he wrote The team is utterly self managing? My experience on a small self managing (and collocated) team is that there is no place
                      Message 10 of 13 , Feb 27, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Charles, you may be right about Marissa Mayer's decision at Yahoo, but I'm not following this:

                        > Agile Teams are not self managing, they are self organizing.

                        Was Ken mistaken when he wrote "The team is utterly self managing?"

                        My experience on a small self managing (and collocated) team is that there is no place to hide out. If effective team self management were occurring at Yahoo, the (alleged) abuses would be pretty obvious to others on the teams.

                        --mj
                        (Michael)
                      • Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum Trai
                        MJ, I know you re not asking me to speak for Ken Schwaber or to try to explain why he said some random quote.  ;-)   I was speaking of Agile, not necessarily
                        Message 11 of 13 , Feb 27, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          MJ,

                          I know you're not asking me to speak for Ken Schwaber or to try to explain why he said some random quote.  ;-)
                           
                          I was speaking of Agile, not necessarily Scrum, but while we're on that topic...

                          Ken is heavily involved in our Scrum.org courses(that I teach, as a PST), and in one of our courses we make the point (paraphrasing) that Scrum teams are always self organizing and rarely self managing.  (I'm not speaking for Ken or Scrum.org, obviously -- just myself)

                          -------
                          Charles Bradley
                          Scrum Coach-in-Chief
                          ScrumCrazy.com




                          From: Michael James <mj4scrum@...>
                          To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 1:28 PM
                          Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Yahoo bans working from home. Command and control, or reasonable constraint?

                          Charles, you may be right about Marissa Mayer's decision at Yahoo, but I'm not following this:

                          > Agile Teams are not self managing, they are self organizing. 

                          Was Ken mistaken when he wrote "The team is utterly self managing?"

                          My experience on a small self managing (and collocated) team is that there is no place to hide out.  If effective team self management were occurring at Yahoo, the (alleged) abuses would be pretty obvious to others on the teams.

                          --mj
                          (Michael)

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                        • banshee858
                          ... I d be careful going in this direction. IMO, it comes off as sexist, but that is me. Also, we do not know, but perhaps one of the commitments she has
                          Message 12 of 13 , Feb 28, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            >
                            > Marisa has broken at least one principle of Agile Manifesto:
                            >
                            > *"Build projects around motivated individuals.
                            > Give them the environment and support they need,
                            > and trust them to get the job done."*
                            >
                            > She is not supporting the need of employees that gave birth, only hers.
                            >
                            I'd be careful going in this direction. IMO, it comes off as sexist, but that is me. Also, we do not know, but perhaps one of the commitments she has made is to provide world-class daycare and nursery facilities at Yahoo? If she did that, that would show she was serious about making the Yahoo! the best place to work at.

                            Carlton
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