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Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: How many sprints?

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  • Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum Trai
    Bob, ... Do you consider it waste to re-estimate a PBI when there is material new knowledge about that PBI that would materially affect the estimate for that
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 27, 2013
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      Bob,

      > Assuming these epics are estimated relative to each other, no re-estimation is needed; re-estimation is usually a form of waste.

      Do you consider it waste to re-estimate a PBI when there is material new knowledge about that PBI that would materially affect the estimate for that PBI?

       
      -------
      Charles Bradley
      Scrum Coach-in-Chief
      ScrumCrazy.com




      From: Bob <bobbatemansbay@...>
      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 2:44 AM
      Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: How many sprints?


      Hi Greg,

      I think following George's and Avi's advice is probably the best way forward for you.

      I might just offer a brief word about Release Planning between the development team and the product owner. In general, the epics in the backlog should be roughly estimated in story points, days or weeks, whichever is most appropriate, and from that rough release dates are established. This can be done before the first sprint. Assuming these epics are estimated relative to each other, no re-estimation is needed; re-estimation is usually a form of waste.

      Take a look at Mike Cohn's book, 'Agile Estimating and Planning' and Roman Pichler's book, 'Agile Product Management with Scrum' for more information on release planning.

      Good luck,

      Bob Boyd

      --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Greg Robinson  wrote:
      >
      > Hello, my Product Owner asked how many sprints will it take for the team to
      > complete several of the epics on our product backlog.  We are a brand new
      > team (only 1 sprint under our belt) and not all of the epics have been
      > decomposed into stories and estimated.  About 50% of two of our epics have
      > been decomposed into stories and three other epics havent been touched yet.
      > I understand time is fixed and scope is negotiable, but without the team
      > having determined their velocity nor finished decomposing the epics, what
      > is an appropriate response?  Any suggestions, tips, or articles are
      > welcomed.
      >
      > Thanks in advance.
      >
      > Greg
      >




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    • Bob Boyd
      Hi Charles, You are spot on-you would re-estimate if some new knowledge does come along. However, I was trying to suggest doing some release planning
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 27, 2013
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        Hi Charles,

        You are spot on-you would re-estimate if some new knowledge does come along. However, I was trying to suggest doing some release planning activities with their current set of epics and playing down the re-estimation of epics at such an early stage of the project. I also wanted to discourage re-estimating if re-estimating was simply to be more accurate, a form of waste. Generally, initial epic estimates will be very inaccurate and after only one sprint, as in Greg's case, they will not be substantially better. For Greg to be able to say something like "we can release after 10 sprints plus or minus 6" would be pretty good after only one sprint.

        In addition, if Greg now knows after the first sprint that their epic estimates are mis-estimated by some factor, (assuming the epics were estimated relative to each other), the team could quickly adjust all their epic estimates in the backlog without re-estimating. They could then do release planning to get an estimated number of sprints before release.

        Bob boyd


        --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum Trainer and Coach wrote:
        >
        > Bob,
        >
        > > Assuming these epics are estimated relative to each other, no re-estimation is needed; re-estimation is usually a form of waste.
        >
        > Do you consider it waste to re-estimate a PBI when there is material new knowledge about that PBI that would materially affect the estimate for that PBI?
        >
        >
        >  
        > -------
        > Charles Bradley
        > Scrum Coach-in-Chief
        > ScrumCrazy.com
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > >________________________________
        > > From: Bob
        > >To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
        > >Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 2:44 AM
        > >Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: How many sprints?
        > >
        > >
        > >Hi Greg,
        > >
        > >I think following George's and Avi's advice is probably the best way forward for you.
        > >
        > >I might just offer a brief word about Release Planning between the development team and the product owner. In general, the epics in the backlog should be roughly estimated in story points, days or weeks, whichever is most appropriate, and from that rough release dates are established. This can be done before the first sprint. Assuming these epics are estimated relative to each other, no re-estimation is needed; re-estimation is usually a form of waste.
        > >
        > >Take a look at Mike Cohn's book, 'Agile Estimating and Planning' and Roman Pichler's book, 'Agile Product Management with Scrum' for more information on release planning.
        > >
        > >Good luck,
        > >
        > >Bob Boyd
        > >
        > >--- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Greg Robinson  wrote:
        > >>
        > >> Hello, my Product Owner asked how many sprints will it take for the team to
        > >> complete several of the epics on our product backlog.  We are a brand new
        > >> team (only 1 sprint under our belt) and not all of the epics have been
        > >> decomposed into stories and estimated.  About 50% of two of our epics have
        > >> been decomposed into stories and three other epics havent been touched yet.
        > >> I understand time is fixed and scope is negotiable, but without the team
        > >> having determined their velocity nor finished decomposing the epics, what
        > >> is an appropriate response?  Any suggestions, tips, or articles are
        > >> welcomed.
        > >>
        > >> Thanks in advance.
        > >>
        > >> Greg
        > >>
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >------------------------------------
        > >
        > >To Post a message, send it to:  scrumdevelopment@...
        > >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
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