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Re: [scrumdevelopment] Help - looking for recent "metaphor" article

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  • Hubert Smits
    Hi Todd, While building an Internet Bank in Scotland the metaphore used by the team was that of a production line. On a production line a car (for example)
    Message 1 of 22 , Dec 1, 2004
      Hi Todd,

      While building an Internet Bank in Scotland the metaphore used by the
      team was that of a production line. On a production line a car (for
      example) goes from station to station. Each station adds a nut or bolt
      and at the end of the line a car rolls of. The process in the bank,
      and the IT system supporting it was based on this idea: every station
      adds something to the product (a mortgage or a loan). E.g. a station
      provides information (rates, payback periods etc). Then a station
      takes details of the customer and the desired product. Next one does a
      credit check. Then paperwork is printed. Paperwork checked. Money
      released. Postings made to the GL etc. etc.

      Is that a metaphor you were looking for?

      --Hubert


      On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 22:47:34 -0800, todd <todd@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Joseph Pelrine wrote:
      >
      > > At 20:50 27.11.2004, you wrote:
      > >
      > > >I think any thing of any complexity becomes its own metaphor. Saying
      > > >software is like X doesn't add much light. It reflects more of the story
      > > >teller than the story.
      > >
      > > I beg to disagree.
      >
      > No need to beg. I don't really disagree with much of what you said, yet
      > i have not seen
      > useful broad scale software related metaphors. Perhaps you can share
      > some you like?
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
      > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
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      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Dion Stewart
      Deb, Could these be it? http://www.domaindrivendesign.org/wiki/?page=SoftwareDevelopmentIsLike http://domaindrivendesign.org/articles/blog/
      Message 2 of 22 , Dec 1, 2004
        Deb,

        Could these be it?

        http://www.domaindrivendesign.org/wiki/?page=SoftwareDevelopmentIsLike

        http://domaindrivendesign.org/articles/blog/
        evans_eric_software_is_not_like_that.html

        Dion


        On Wednesday, December 1, 2004, at 01:20 PM, Deb wrote:

        > So, it seems the short answer is:
        > Nobody recognises the article I'm looking for, from my description.
        > Oh well. I had started reading it and somehow lost track of it.
        > Well, if anyone spots it on the web, please let me know.
        > Thanks!
        > deb
      • Mike Dwyer
        15 yards, woyman unnecessary metaphor. Penalty to be taken from the time your users ask for another insane last minute change. (^8 Michael F. Dwyer
        Message 3 of 22 , Dec 1, 2004
          15 yards, woyman unnecessary metaphor. Penalty to be taken from the time
          your users ask for another insane last minute change.

          (^8

          Michael F. Dwyer

          Mike.Dwyer1@...



          -----Original Message-----
          From: woynam [mailto:woyna@...]
          Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 3:23 PM
          To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Help - looking for recent "metaphor" article



          Given the recent string of "hot" threads, I'd propose the following:

          Agile software development is like teen sex:

          - Everybody is talking about it
          - Most are not doing it
          - Those that are doing it, are doing it wrong

          ;-)

          Mark

          --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Deb" <deborah@h...> wrote:
          >
          > I recently saw a blog or article somewhere (???) recently, where
          > someone in this crowd was reflecting on suitable metaphors for what
          we
          > do. Specifically, I believe it was an alternative to the
          manufacturing
          > metaphor. Might have been following OOPSLA in Vancouver?
          >
          > Can anyone suggest what I might be looking for and where I can find
          > it? I've searched my blogs and the Agile Alliance library to no
          avail...
          >
          > I think I've reached saturation... or old timers disease is
          starting :-)
          > deb






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        • Karl Scotland
          Ah. That s a shame. Mind you, it makes me wonder whether I could come up with a tv related metaphor that would really work where I am, or whether it might be
          Message 4 of 22 , Dec 2, 2004
            Ah. That's a shame.
            Mind you, it makes me wonder whether I could come up with a tv related
            metaphor that would really work where I am, or whether it might be a bit
            contrived.

            Karl

            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Mike Cohn [mailto:mike@...]
            >
            > I checked that metaphor more and it was a bit of false match
            > on "software is like.."
            >
            > Here's a link: http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/041116/165431_1.html
            >
            > The statement it makes is that our "software is like tivo for
            > streaming media." So it's a description of their product,
            > not the software process itself.
            >
            > --Mike
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Karl Scotland [mailto:kscotland@...]
            >
            > > -----Original Message-----
            > > From: Mike Cohn [mailto:mike@...]
            > >
            > > Do a google search on "software is like" and you're sure to
            > > find that it's like just about everything, including:
            > >
            > > Like TiVo
            >
            > Now that's a particularly interesting one to me, being in the
            > digital TV domain! Do you have any more info? Links? Tried
            > google with no luck!
            >
          • Joseph Pelrine
            ... How about starting with something like writing software is like working for the BBC , and see how far that analogy gets you ;-) Cheers -- Joseph Pelrine [
            Message 5 of 22 , Dec 2, 2004
              At 09:51 02.12.2004, you wrote:

              >Ah. That's a shame.
              >Mind you, it makes me wonder whether I could come up with a tv related
              >metaphor that would really work where I am, or whether it might be a bit
              >contrived.

              How about starting with something like "writing software is like working
              for the BBC", and see how far that analogy gets you ;-)

              Cheers

              --
              Joseph Pelrine [ | ]
              MetaProg GmbH
              Email: jpelrine@...
              Web: http://www.metaprog.com

              You don't become enormously successful without encountering some really
              interesting problems.
              - Mark Victor Hansen
            • Karl Scotland
              ... That could get me into a whole lot of trouble as I m now working for a competitor (in so far as the BBC has competitors :) Karl
              Message 6 of 22 , Dec 2, 2004
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Joseph Pelrine [mailto:jpelrine@...]
                >
                > How about starting with something like "writing software is
                > like working
                > for the BBC", and see how far that analogy gets you ;-)

                That could get me into a whole lot of trouble as I'm now working for a
                competitor (in so far as the BBC has competitors :)

                Karl
              • todd
                Hubert, i think there are a lot of tactical metaphors like you describe. They help us bootstrap from one domain to another. But what about your software do i
                Message 7 of 22 , Dec 2, 2004
                  Hubert, i think there are a lot of tactical metaphors like you describe.
                  They
                  help us bootstrap from one domain to another. But what about your software
                  do i really know now?

                  If you are describing the system to a muggle then you have given them a
                  hand up
                  in understanding.

                  As a software developer i see a universe of choices, decisions, options,
                  and implementations
                  that could lead to an infinite set of concrete systems. When i dig into
                  the real system it
                  forms its own domain. In time you will be using your system as the
                  source domain for other metaphoric
                  mappings. It's a cyclic folding and unfolding and of mappings. Pick a
                  different
                  point in the cycle and you will see and understand something differently.

                  Where is the true metaphor? That's like looking at a hologram and saying
                  where is
                  the true image. It is implicate in all parts of the system.

                  Hubert Smits wrote:

                  > Hi Todd,
                  >
                  > While building an Internet Bank in Scotland the metaphore used by the
                  > team was that of a production line. On a production line a car (for
                  > example) goes from station to station. Each station adds a nut or bolt
                  > and at the end of the line a car rolls of. The process in the bank,
                  > and the IT system supporting it was based on this idea: every station
                  > adds something to the product (a mortgage or a loan). E.g. a station
                  > provides information (rates, payback periods etc). Then a station
                  > takes details of the customer and the desired product. Next one does a
                  > credit check. Then paperwork is printed. Paperwork checked. Money
                  > released. Postings made to the GL etc. etc.
                  >
                  > Is that a metaphor you were looking for?
                  >
                  > --Hubert
                  >
                  >
                  > On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 22:47:34 -0800, todd <todd@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Joseph Pelrine wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > At 20:50 27.11.2004, you wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > >I think any thing of any complexity becomes its own metaphor. Saying
                  > > > >software is like X doesn't add much light. It reflects more of
                  > the story
                  > > > >teller than the story.
                  > > >
                  > > > I beg to disagree.
                  > >
                  > > No need to beg. I don't really disagree with much of what you said, yet
                  > > i have not seen
                  > > useful broad scale software related metaphors. Perhaps you can share
                  > > some you like?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
                  > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                  > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
                  > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                  > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
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                • mike.dwyer1@comcast.net
                  The Stone s you can t always get what you want is what I keep on hearing when business people ask for somethings. John Sebastian s Did you ever have to make
                  Message 8 of 22 , Dec 2, 2004
                    The Stone's "you can't always get what you want" is what I keep on hearing when business people ask for somethings.
                     
                    John Sebastian's "Did you ever have to make up your mind." are the words I sing to folks who want to collapse a 9 month project into 1 month.
                     
                    But the question is are these metaphors or just something simile-r to them.
                     
                    --
                    Mike Dwyer

                    "I Keep six faithful serving-men
                    Who serve me well and true:
                    Their names are What and Where and When
                    And How and Why and Who." - Kipling
                     
                    -------------- Original message --------------

                    >
                    > Ah. That's a shame.
                    > Mind you, it makes me wonder whether I could come up with a tv related
                    > metaphor that would really work where I am, or whether it might be a bit
                    > contrived.
                    >
                    > Karl
                    >
                    > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > From: Mike Cohn [mailto:mike@...]
                    > >
                    > > I checked that metaphor more and it was a bit of false match
                    > > on "software is like.."
                    > >
                    > > Here's a link: http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/041116/165431_1.html
                    > >
                    > > The statement it makes is that our "software is like tivo for
                    > > streaming media." So it's a description of their product,
                    > > not the software process itself.
                    > >
                    > > --Mike
                    > >
                    > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > From: Karl Scotland [mailto:kscotland@...]
                    > >
                    > > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > > From: Mike Cohn [mailto:mike@...]
                    > > >
                    > > > Do a google search on "software is like" and you're sure to
                    > > > find that it's like just about everything, including:
                    > > >
                    > > > Like TiVo
                    > >
                    > > Now that's a particularly interesting one to me, being in the
                    > > digital TV domain! Do you have any more info? Links? Tried
                    > > google with no luck!
                    > >
                    >
                    >
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