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Re: Help - looking for recent "metaphor" article

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  • woynam
    Given the recent string of hot threads, I d propose the following: Agile software development is like teen sex: - Everybody is talking about it - Most are
    Message 1 of 22 , Dec 1, 2004
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      Given the recent string of "hot" threads, I'd propose the following:

      Agile software development is like teen sex:

      - Everybody is talking about it
      - Most are not doing it
      - Those that are doing it, are doing it wrong

      ;-)

      Mark

      --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Deb" <deborah@h...> wrote:
      >
      > I recently saw a blog or article somewhere (???) recently, where
      > someone in this crowd was reflecting on suitable metaphors for what
      we
      > do. Specifically, I believe it was an alternative to the
      manufacturing
      > metaphor. Might have been following OOPSLA in Vancouver?
      >
      > Can anyone suggest what I might be looking for and where I can find
      > it? I've searched my blogs and the Agile Alliance library to no
      avail...
      >
      > I think I've reached saturation... or old timers disease is
      starting :-)
      > deb
    • Hubert Smits
      Hi Todd, While building an Internet Bank in Scotland the metaphore used by the team was that of a production line. On a production line a car (for example)
      Message 2 of 22 , Dec 1, 2004
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        Hi Todd,

        While building an Internet Bank in Scotland the metaphore used by the
        team was that of a production line. On a production line a car (for
        example) goes from station to station. Each station adds a nut or bolt
        and at the end of the line a car rolls of. The process in the bank,
        and the IT system supporting it was based on this idea: every station
        adds something to the product (a mortgage or a loan). E.g. a station
        provides information (rates, payback periods etc). Then a station
        takes details of the customer and the desired product. Next one does a
        credit check. Then paperwork is printed. Paperwork checked. Money
        released. Postings made to the GL etc. etc.

        Is that a metaphor you were looking for?

        --Hubert


        On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 22:47:34 -0800, todd <todd@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Joseph Pelrine wrote:
        >
        > > At 20:50 27.11.2004, you wrote:
        > >
        > > >I think any thing of any complexity becomes its own metaphor. Saying
        > > >software is like X doesn't add much light. It reflects more of the story
        > > >teller than the story.
        > >
        > > I beg to disagree.
        >
        > No need to beg. I don't really disagree with much of what you said, yet
        > i have not seen
        > useful broad scale software related metaphors. Perhaps you can share
        > some you like?
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
        > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Dion Stewart
        Deb, Could these be it? http://www.domaindrivendesign.org/wiki/?page=SoftwareDevelopmentIsLike http://domaindrivendesign.org/articles/blog/
        Message 3 of 22 , Dec 1, 2004
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          Deb,

          Could these be it?

          http://www.domaindrivendesign.org/wiki/?page=SoftwareDevelopmentIsLike

          http://domaindrivendesign.org/articles/blog/
          evans_eric_software_is_not_like_that.html

          Dion


          On Wednesday, December 1, 2004, at 01:20 PM, Deb wrote:

          > So, it seems the short answer is:
          > Nobody recognises the article I'm looking for, from my description.
          > Oh well. I had started reading it and somehow lost track of it.
          > Well, if anyone spots it on the web, please let me know.
          > Thanks!
          > deb
        • Mike Dwyer
          15 yards, woyman unnecessary metaphor. Penalty to be taken from the time your users ask for another insane last minute change. (^8 Michael F. Dwyer
          Message 4 of 22 , Dec 1, 2004
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            15 yards, woyman unnecessary metaphor. Penalty to be taken from the time
            your users ask for another insane last minute change.

            (^8

            Michael F. Dwyer

            Mike.Dwyer1@...



            -----Original Message-----
            From: woynam [mailto:woyna@...]
            Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 3:23 PM
            To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Help - looking for recent "metaphor" article



            Given the recent string of "hot" threads, I'd propose the following:

            Agile software development is like teen sex:

            - Everybody is talking about it
            - Most are not doing it
            - Those that are doing it, are doing it wrong

            ;-)

            Mark

            --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Deb" <deborah@h...> wrote:
            >
            > I recently saw a blog or article somewhere (???) recently, where
            > someone in this crowd was reflecting on suitable metaphors for what
            we
            > do. Specifically, I believe it was an alternative to the
            manufacturing
            > metaphor. Might have been following OOPSLA in Vancouver?
            >
            > Can anyone suggest what I might be looking for and where I can find
            > it? I've searched my blogs and the Agile Alliance library to no
            avail...
            >
            > I think I've reached saturation... or old timers disease is
            starting :-)
            > deb






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            To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
            scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
            Yahoo! Groups Links
          • Karl Scotland
            Ah. That s a shame. Mind you, it makes me wonder whether I could come up with a tv related metaphor that would really work where I am, or whether it might be
            Message 5 of 22 , Dec 2, 2004
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              Ah. That's a shame.
              Mind you, it makes me wonder whether I could come up with a tv related
              metaphor that would really work where I am, or whether it might be a bit
              contrived.

              Karl

              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Mike Cohn [mailto:mike@...]
              >
              > I checked that metaphor more and it was a bit of false match
              > on "software is like.."
              >
              > Here's a link: http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/041116/165431_1.html
              >
              > The statement it makes is that our "software is like tivo for
              > streaming media." So it's a description of their product,
              > not the software process itself.
              >
              > --Mike
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Karl Scotland [mailto:kscotland@...]
              >
              > > -----Original Message-----
              > > From: Mike Cohn [mailto:mike@...]
              > >
              > > Do a google search on "software is like" and you're sure to
              > > find that it's like just about everything, including:
              > >
              > > Like TiVo
              >
              > Now that's a particularly interesting one to me, being in the
              > digital TV domain! Do you have any more info? Links? Tried
              > google with no luck!
              >
            • Joseph Pelrine
              ... How about starting with something like writing software is like working for the BBC , and see how far that analogy gets you ;-) Cheers -- Joseph Pelrine [
              Message 6 of 22 , Dec 2, 2004
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                At 09:51 02.12.2004, you wrote:

                >Ah. That's a shame.
                >Mind you, it makes me wonder whether I could come up with a tv related
                >metaphor that would really work where I am, or whether it might be a bit
                >contrived.

                How about starting with something like "writing software is like working
                for the BBC", and see how far that analogy gets you ;-)

                Cheers

                --
                Joseph Pelrine [ | ]
                MetaProg GmbH
                Email: jpelrine@...
                Web: http://www.metaprog.com

                You don't become enormously successful without encountering some really
                interesting problems.
                - Mark Victor Hansen
              • Karl Scotland
                ... That could get me into a whole lot of trouble as I m now working for a competitor (in so far as the BBC has competitors :) Karl
                Message 7 of 22 , Dec 2, 2004
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                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Joseph Pelrine [mailto:jpelrine@...]
                  >
                  > How about starting with something like "writing software is
                  > like working
                  > for the BBC", and see how far that analogy gets you ;-)

                  That could get me into a whole lot of trouble as I'm now working for a
                  competitor (in so far as the BBC has competitors :)

                  Karl
                • todd
                  Hubert, i think there are a lot of tactical metaphors like you describe. They help us bootstrap from one domain to another. But what about your software do i
                  Message 8 of 22 , Dec 2, 2004
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                    Hubert, i think there are a lot of tactical metaphors like you describe.
                    They
                    help us bootstrap from one domain to another. But what about your software
                    do i really know now?

                    If you are describing the system to a muggle then you have given them a
                    hand up
                    in understanding.

                    As a software developer i see a universe of choices, decisions, options,
                    and implementations
                    that could lead to an infinite set of concrete systems. When i dig into
                    the real system it
                    forms its own domain. In time you will be using your system as the
                    source domain for other metaphoric
                    mappings. It's a cyclic folding and unfolding and of mappings. Pick a
                    different
                    point in the cycle and you will see and understand something differently.

                    Where is the true metaphor? That's like looking at a hologram and saying
                    where is
                    the true image. It is implicate in all parts of the system.

                    Hubert Smits wrote:

                    > Hi Todd,
                    >
                    > While building an Internet Bank in Scotland the metaphore used by the
                    > team was that of a production line. On a production line a car (for
                    > example) goes from station to station. Each station adds a nut or bolt
                    > and at the end of the line a car rolls of. The process in the bank,
                    > and the IT system supporting it was based on this idea: every station
                    > adds something to the product (a mortgage or a loan). E.g. a station
                    > provides information (rates, payback periods etc). Then a station
                    > takes details of the customer and the desired product. Next one does a
                    > credit check. Then paperwork is printed. Paperwork checked. Money
                    > released. Postings made to the GL etc. etc.
                    >
                    > Is that a metaphor you were looking for?
                    >
                    > --Hubert
                    >
                    >
                    > On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 22:47:34 -0800, todd <todd@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Joseph Pelrine wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > At 20:50 27.11.2004, you wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > >I think any thing of any complexity becomes its own metaphor. Saying
                    > > > >software is like X doesn't add much light. It reflects more of
                    > the story
                    > > > >teller than the story.
                    > > >
                    > > > I beg to disagree.
                    > >
                    > > No need to beg. I don't really disagree with much of what you said, yet
                    > > i have not seen
                    > > useful broad scale software related metaphors. Perhaps you can share
                    > > some you like?
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
                    > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                    > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
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                    > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
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                  • mike.dwyer1@comcast.net
                    The Stone s you can t always get what you want is what I keep on hearing when business people ask for somethings. John Sebastian s Did you ever have to make
                    Message 9 of 22 , Dec 2, 2004
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                      The Stone's "you can't always get what you want" is what I keep on hearing when business people ask for somethings.
                       
                      John Sebastian's "Did you ever have to make up your mind." are the words I sing to folks who want to collapse a 9 month project into 1 month.
                       
                      But the question is are these metaphors or just something simile-r to them.
                       
                      --
                      Mike Dwyer

                      "I Keep six faithful serving-men
                      Who serve me well and true:
                      Their names are What and Where and When
                      And How and Why and Who." - Kipling
                       
                      -------------- Original message --------------

                      >
                      > Ah. That's a shame.
                      > Mind you, it makes me wonder whether I could come up with a tv related
                      > metaphor that would really work where I am, or whether it might be a bit
                      > contrived.
                      >
                      > Karl
                      >
                      > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > From: Mike Cohn [mailto:mike@...]
                      > >
                      > > I checked that metaphor more and it was a bit of false match
                      > > on "software is like.."
                      > >
                      > > Here's a link: http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/041116/165431_1.html
                      > >
                      > > The statement it makes is that our "software is like tivo for
                      > > streaming media." So it's a description of their product,
                      > > not the software process itself.
                      > >
                      > > --Mike
                      > >
                      > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > From: Karl Scotland [mailto:kscotland@...]
                      > >
                      > > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > > From: Mike Cohn [mailto:mike@...]
                      > > >
                      > > > Do a google search on "software is like" and you're sure to
                      > > > find that it's like just about everything, including:
                      > > >
                      > > > Like TiVo
                      > >
                      > > Now that's a particularly interesting one to me, being in the
                      > > digital TV domain! Do you have any more info? Links? Tried
                      > > google with no luck!
                      > >
                      >
                      >
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