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Re: Help - looking for recent "metaphor" article

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  • Deb
    So, it seems the short answer is: Nobody recognises the article I m looking for, from my description. Oh well. I had started reading it and somehow lost track
    Message 1 of 22 , Dec 1, 2004
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      So, it seems the short answer is:
      Nobody recognises the article I'm looking for, from my description.
      Oh well. I had started reading it and somehow lost track of it.
      Well, if anyone spots it on the web, please let me know.
      Thanks!
      deb

      PS: didn't find the link I wanted, but there has been lots of
      interesting conversation on the topic - bonus! :-)

      --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Cohn" <mike@m...>
      wrote:
      > I checked that metaphor more and it was a bit of false match
      on "software is
      > like.."
      >
      > Here's a link: http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/041116/165431_1.html
      >
      > The statement it makes is that our "software is like tivo for
      streaming
      > media." So it's a description of their product, not the software
      process
      > itself.
      >
      > --Mike
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Karl Scotland [mailto:kscotland@t...]
      > Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 8:43 AM
      > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] Help - looking for
      recent "metaphor" article
      >
      >
      >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: Mike Cohn [mailto:mike@m...]
      > >
      > > Do a google search on "software is like" and you're sure to
      > > find that it's like just about everything, including:
      > >
      > > Like TiVo
      >
      > Now that's a particularly interesting one to me, being in the
      digital TV
      > domain! Do you have any more info? Links? Tried google with no
      luck!
      >
      > Karl
      >
      >
      >
      > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@e...
      > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
      > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@e...
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
    • woynam
      Given the recent string of hot threads, I d propose the following: Agile software development is like teen sex: - Everybody is talking about it - Most are
      Message 2 of 22 , Dec 1, 2004
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        Given the recent string of "hot" threads, I'd propose the following:

        Agile software development is like teen sex:

        - Everybody is talking about it
        - Most are not doing it
        - Those that are doing it, are doing it wrong

        ;-)

        Mark

        --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Deb" <deborah@h...> wrote:
        >
        > I recently saw a blog or article somewhere (???) recently, where
        > someone in this crowd was reflecting on suitable metaphors for what
        we
        > do. Specifically, I believe it was an alternative to the
        manufacturing
        > metaphor. Might have been following OOPSLA in Vancouver?
        >
        > Can anyone suggest what I might be looking for and where I can find
        > it? I've searched my blogs and the Agile Alliance library to no
        avail...
        >
        > I think I've reached saturation... or old timers disease is
        starting :-)
        > deb
      • Hubert Smits
        Hi Todd, While building an Internet Bank in Scotland the metaphore used by the team was that of a production line. On a production line a car (for example)
        Message 3 of 22 , Dec 1, 2004
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          Hi Todd,

          While building an Internet Bank in Scotland the metaphore used by the
          team was that of a production line. On a production line a car (for
          example) goes from station to station. Each station adds a nut or bolt
          and at the end of the line a car rolls of. The process in the bank,
          and the IT system supporting it was based on this idea: every station
          adds something to the product (a mortgage or a loan). E.g. a station
          provides information (rates, payback periods etc). Then a station
          takes details of the customer and the desired product. Next one does a
          credit check. Then paperwork is printed. Paperwork checked. Money
          released. Postings made to the GL etc. etc.

          Is that a metaphor you were looking for?

          --Hubert


          On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 22:47:34 -0800, todd <todd@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > Joseph Pelrine wrote:
          >
          > > At 20:50 27.11.2004, you wrote:
          > >
          > > >I think any thing of any complexity becomes its own metaphor. Saying
          > > >software is like X doesn't add much light. It reflects more of the story
          > > >teller than the story.
          > >
          > > I beg to disagree.
          >
          > No need to beg. I don't really disagree with much of what you said, yet
          > i have not seen
          > useful broad scale software related metaphors. Perhaps you can share
          > some you like?
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
          > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Dion Stewart
          Deb, Could these be it? http://www.domaindrivendesign.org/wiki/?page=SoftwareDevelopmentIsLike http://domaindrivendesign.org/articles/blog/
          Message 4 of 22 , Dec 1, 2004
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            Deb,

            Could these be it?

            http://www.domaindrivendesign.org/wiki/?page=SoftwareDevelopmentIsLike

            http://domaindrivendesign.org/articles/blog/
            evans_eric_software_is_not_like_that.html

            Dion


            On Wednesday, December 1, 2004, at 01:20 PM, Deb wrote:

            > So, it seems the short answer is:
            > Nobody recognises the article I'm looking for, from my description.
            > Oh well. I had started reading it and somehow lost track of it.
            > Well, if anyone spots it on the web, please let me know.
            > Thanks!
            > deb
          • Mike Dwyer
            15 yards, woyman unnecessary metaphor. Penalty to be taken from the time your users ask for another insane last minute change. (^8 Michael F. Dwyer
            Message 5 of 22 , Dec 1, 2004
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              15 yards, woyman unnecessary metaphor. Penalty to be taken from the time
              your users ask for another insane last minute change.

              (^8

              Michael F. Dwyer

              Mike.Dwyer1@...



              -----Original Message-----
              From: woynam [mailto:woyna@...]
              Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 3:23 PM
              To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Help - looking for recent "metaphor" article



              Given the recent string of "hot" threads, I'd propose the following:

              Agile software development is like teen sex:

              - Everybody is talking about it
              - Most are not doing it
              - Those that are doing it, are doing it wrong

              ;-)

              Mark

              --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Deb" <deborah@h...> wrote:
              >
              > I recently saw a blog or article somewhere (???) recently, where
              > someone in this crowd was reflecting on suitable metaphors for what
              we
              > do. Specifically, I believe it was an alternative to the
              manufacturing
              > metaphor. Might have been following OOPSLA in Vancouver?
              >
              > Can anyone suggest what I might be looking for and where I can find
              > it? I've searched my blogs and the Agile Alliance library to no
              avail...
              >
              > I think I've reached saturation... or old timers disease is
              starting :-)
              > deb






              To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
              To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
              scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
              Yahoo! Groups Links
            • Karl Scotland
              Ah. That s a shame. Mind you, it makes me wonder whether I could come up with a tv related metaphor that would really work where I am, or whether it might be
              Message 6 of 22 , Dec 2, 2004
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                Ah. That's a shame.
                Mind you, it makes me wonder whether I could come up with a tv related
                metaphor that would really work where I am, or whether it might be a bit
                contrived.

                Karl

                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Mike Cohn [mailto:mike@...]
                >
                > I checked that metaphor more and it was a bit of false match
                > on "software is like.."
                >
                > Here's a link: http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/041116/165431_1.html
                >
                > The statement it makes is that our "software is like tivo for
                > streaming media." So it's a description of their product,
                > not the software process itself.
                >
                > --Mike
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Karl Scotland [mailto:kscotland@...]
                >
                > > -----Original Message-----
                > > From: Mike Cohn [mailto:mike@...]
                > >
                > > Do a google search on "software is like" and you're sure to
                > > find that it's like just about everything, including:
                > >
                > > Like TiVo
                >
                > Now that's a particularly interesting one to me, being in the
                > digital TV domain! Do you have any more info? Links? Tried
                > google with no luck!
                >
              • Joseph Pelrine
                ... How about starting with something like writing software is like working for the BBC , and see how far that analogy gets you ;-) Cheers -- Joseph Pelrine [
                Message 7 of 22 , Dec 2, 2004
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                  At 09:51 02.12.2004, you wrote:

                  >Ah. That's a shame.
                  >Mind you, it makes me wonder whether I could come up with a tv related
                  >metaphor that would really work where I am, or whether it might be a bit
                  >contrived.

                  How about starting with something like "writing software is like working
                  for the BBC", and see how far that analogy gets you ;-)

                  Cheers

                  --
                  Joseph Pelrine [ | ]
                  MetaProg GmbH
                  Email: jpelrine@...
                  Web: http://www.metaprog.com

                  You don't become enormously successful without encountering some really
                  interesting problems.
                  - Mark Victor Hansen
                • Karl Scotland
                  ... That could get me into a whole lot of trouble as I m now working for a competitor (in so far as the BBC has competitors :) Karl
                  Message 8 of 22 , Dec 2, 2004
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                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Joseph Pelrine [mailto:jpelrine@...]
                    >
                    > How about starting with something like "writing software is
                    > like working
                    > for the BBC", and see how far that analogy gets you ;-)

                    That could get me into a whole lot of trouble as I'm now working for a
                    competitor (in so far as the BBC has competitors :)

                    Karl
                  • todd
                    Hubert, i think there are a lot of tactical metaphors like you describe. They help us bootstrap from one domain to another. But what about your software do i
                    Message 9 of 22 , Dec 2, 2004
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                      Hubert, i think there are a lot of tactical metaphors like you describe.
                      They
                      help us bootstrap from one domain to another. But what about your software
                      do i really know now?

                      If you are describing the system to a muggle then you have given them a
                      hand up
                      in understanding.

                      As a software developer i see a universe of choices, decisions, options,
                      and implementations
                      that could lead to an infinite set of concrete systems. When i dig into
                      the real system it
                      forms its own domain. In time you will be using your system as the
                      source domain for other metaphoric
                      mappings. It's a cyclic folding and unfolding and of mappings. Pick a
                      different
                      point in the cycle and you will see and understand something differently.

                      Where is the true metaphor? That's like looking at a hologram and saying
                      where is
                      the true image. It is implicate in all parts of the system.

                      Hubert Smits wrote:

                      > Hi Todd,
                      >
                      > While building an Internet Bank in Scotland the metaphore used by the
                      > team was that of a production line. On a production line a car (for
                      > example) goes from station to station. Each station adds a nut or bolt
                      > and at the end of the line a car rolls of. The process in the bank,
                      > and the IT system supporting it was based on this idea: every station
                      > adds something to the product (a mortgage or a loan). E.g. a station
                      > provides information (rates, payback periods etc). Then a station
                      > takes details of the customer and the desired product. Next one does a
                      > credit check. Then paperwork is printed. Paperwork checked. Money
                      > released. Postings made to the GL etc. etc.
                      >
                      > Is that a metaphor you were looking for?
                      >
                      > --Hubert
                      >
                      >
                      > On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 22:47:34 -0800, todd <todd@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Joseph Pelrine wrote:
                      > >
                      > > > At 20:50 27.11.2004, you wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > >I think any thing of any complexity becomes its own metaphor. Saying
                      > > > >software is like X doesn't add much light. It reflects more of
                      > the story
                      > > > >teller than the story.
                      > > >
                      > > > I beg to disagree.
                      > >
                      > > No need to beg. I don't really disagree with much of what you said, yet
                      > > i have not seen
                      > > useful broad scale software related metaphors. Perhaps you can share
                      > > some you like?
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
                      > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                      > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
                      > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                      > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
                      >
                      >
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                    • mike.dwyer1@comcast.net
                      The Stone s you can t always get what you want is what I keep on hearing when business people ask for somethings. John Sebastian s Did you ever have to make
                      Message 10 of 22 , Dec 2, 2004
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                        The Stone's "you can't always get what you want" is what I keep on hearing when business people ask for somethings.
                         
                        John Sebastian's "Did you ever have to make up your mind." are the words I sing to folks who want to collapse a 9 month project into 1 month.
                         
                        But the question is are these metaphors or just something simile-r to them.
                         
                        --
                        Mike Dwyer

                        "I Keep six faithful serving-men
                        Who serve me well and true:
                        Their names are What and Where and When
                        And How and Why and Who." - Kipling
                         
                        -------------- Original message --------------

                        >
                        > Ah. That's a shame.
                        > Mind you, it makes me wonder whether I could come up with a tv related
                        > metaphor that would really work where I am, or whether it might be a bit
                        > contrived.
                        >
                        > Karl
                        >
                        > > -----Original Message-----
                        > > From: Mike Cohn [mailto:mike@...]
                        > >
                        > > I checked that metaphor more and it was a bit of false match
                        > > on "software is like.."
                        > >
                        > > Here's a link: http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/041116/165431_1.html
                        > >
                        > > The statement it makes is that our "software is like tivo for
                        > > streaming media." So it's a description of their product,
                        > > not the software process itself.
                        > >
                        > > --Mike
                        > >
                        > > -----Original Message-----
                        > > From: Karl Scotland [mailto:kscotland@...]
                        > >
                        > > > -----Original Message-----
                        > > > From: Mike Cohn [mailto:mike@...]
                        > > >
                        > > > Do a google search on "software is like" and you're sure to
                        > > > find that it's like just about everything, including:
                        > > >
                        > > > Like TiVo
                        > >
                        > > Now that's a particularly interesting one to me, being in the
                        > > digital TV domain! Do you have any more info? Links? Tried
                        > > google with no luck!
                        > >
                        >
                        >
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