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Re: Has anyone else seen this article slamming Agile?

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  • jessicacp23
    Charles, I am disappointed to see that you think I am a shill for this company. Your guess or analysis is wrong, not only about me but also about the report s
    Message 1 of 8 , Aug 9, 2012
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      Charles,

      I am disappointed to see that you think I am a shill for this company. Your guess or analysis is wrong, not only about me but also about the report's content, from what we can see.

      Rather than being mad at this company since you look like you disagree with their report, you seem to also find pleasure in attacking me, the messenger, who knows nothing about this company.

      Jessica

      --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSP CSM PSM I <chuck-lists2@...> wrote:
      >
      > All below is my opinion:
      >
      > It is hip to slam Agile, because Agile is now extremely popular.  I have seen this kind of "shock jock" blogging/marketing articles before with respect to Agile.  The company who wrote the original report is selling... guess what? Reports!  They have a financial incentive to cause controversy and attract the ire of the fervent Agile community!  Don't feed the trolls!
      >
      >
      > In one interesting statement from the report:
      > "The Agile movement shifts the broad, inter-departmental process of
      > software engineering to one that is focused on software development to
      > the exclusion of QA and operations"
      >
      > Anyone who knows anything about Agile knows that the above quoted sentence means the entire report has no credibility.  It's amazing sometimes how easy it is to sniff out a charlatan.
      >
      >
      > Jessicacp23,
      > By the way you posted the article here on ScrumD without any relevant comment, one might draw the conclusion that you are a shill for the original company selling the report.  I hope that is not the case. 
      >
      >
      > Below are some of the results of the survey that supposedly supports the report.  None of the survey results shocks me, but their conclusions are idiotic, IMO.
      >
      >
      > <snip>
      > The survey results include the following (verbatim from the report):
      > * Sixty-four percent (64%) of survey participants found the
      > transition to Agile confusing, hard, or slow. Twenty-eight percent
      > (28%) report success with Agile.
      > * Out of over 200 survey participants, we received only four detailed comments describing success with Agile.
      > * Overwhelmingly, 40% of participants that use Agile did not identify a benefit.
      > * The primary benefits identified were faster releases (14%) and more feedback (13%). Some participants (7%) also noted that Agile
      > developers were happy due to less future planning and less
      > documentation.
      > * Survey participants report that developers use the guise of
      > Agile to avoid planning and to avoid creating documentation required
      > for future maintenance.
      > * We received some unprecedented scathing and shocking comments
      > about the level of competence, professionalism, and attitudes of some
      > members of the Agile movement.
      > * Be aware that the Agile movement might very well just be
      > either a developer rebellion against unwanted tasks and schedules or
      > just an opportunity to sell Agile services including certification and
      > training.
      > </snip>
      >
      > -------
      > Charles Bradley
      > http://www.ScrumCrazy.com
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > >________________________________
      > > From: jessicacp23 <jessicacp23@...>
      > >To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      > >Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2012 10:42 AM
      > >Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Has anyone else seen this article slamming Agile?
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >http://adtmag.com/Articles/2012/07/13/Report-Says-Agile-a-Scam.aspx?Page=1
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >------------------------------------
      > >
      > >To Post a message, send it to:  scrumdevelopment@...
      > >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
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      >
    • Cass Dalton
      And you also have to realize that there are more organizations trying agile without really making the necessary agile changes and failing than there are
      Message 2 of 8 , Aug 9, 2012
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        And you also have to realize that there are more organizations trying agile without really making the necessary agile changes and failing than there are organizations that are really making agile changes and succeeding.  This generates an entire business around agile consulting and makes it look like agile is all a sham.  If you only paid attention to the process and mechanics and looked around the industry, you would also think that agile was a sham.  These are the same people that tried to bring "lean" production into the states and failed miserably and assume that Toyota's success was because of the difference between Japanese and American culture..

        On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 2:27 PM, Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSP CSM PSM I <chuck-lists2@...> wrote:
         

        All below is my opinion:

        It is hip to slam Agile, because Agile is now extremely popular.  I have seen this kind of "shock jock" blogging/marketing articles before with respect to Agile.  The company who wrote the original report is selling... guess what? Reports!  They have a financial incentive to cause controversy and attract the ire of the fervent Agile community!  Don't feed the trolls!

        In one interesting statement from the report:
        "The Agile movement shifts the broad, inter-departmental process of software engineering to one that is focused on software development to the exclusion of QA and operations"

        Anyone who knows anything about Agile knows that the above quoted sentence means the entire report has no credibility.  It's amazing sometimes how easy it is to sniff out a charlatan.

        Jessicacp23,
        By the way you posted the article here on ScrumD without any relevant comment, one might draw the conclusion that you are a shill for the original company selling the report.  I hope that is not the case. 

        Below are some of the results of the survey that supposedly supports the report.  None of the survey results shocks me, but their conclusions are idiotic, IMO.

        <snip>
        The survey results include the following (verbatim from the report):
        • Sixty-four percent (64%) of survey participants found the transition to Agile confusing, hard, or slow. Twenty-eight percent (28%) report success with Agile.
        • Out of over 200 survey participants, we received only four detailed comments describing success with Agile.
        • Overwhelmingly, 40% of participants that use Agile did not identify a benefit.
        • The primary benefits identified were faster releases (14%) and more feedback (13%). Some participants (7%) also noted that Agile developers were happy due to less future planning and less documentation.
        • Survey participants report that developers use the guise of Agile to avoid planning and to avoid creating documentation required for future maintenance.
        • We received some unprecedented scathing and shocking comments about the level of competence, professionalism, and attitudes of some members of the Agile movement.
        • Be aware that the Agile movement might very well just be either a developer rebellion against unwanted tasks and schedules or just an opportunity to sell Agile services including certification and training.
        </snip>
        -------
        Charles Bradley
        http://www.ScrumCrazy.com




        From: jessicacp23 <jessicacp23@...>
        To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2012 10:42 AM
        Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Has anyone else seen this article slamming Agile?



        http://adtmag.com/Articles/2012/07/13/Report-Says-Agile-a-Scam.aspx?Page=1







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      • lmwright
        I agree, that sentence alone immediately confirmed to me that they have no credible knowledge of Agile. In all of my experience with Agile/SCRUM (and 30 years
        Message 3 of 8 , Aug 10, 2012
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          I agree, that sentence alone immediately confirmed to me that they have no credible knowledge of Agile.

          In all of my experience with Agile/SCRUM (and 30 years of QA under my belt) it is, in fact, the exact opposite of that statement.

          At that point, I knew I was wasting my time reading the rest of the article...except for a few good laughs.


          --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSP CSM PSM I <chuck-lists2@...> wrote:
          >
          > All below is my opinion:
          >
          > It is hip to slam Agile, because Agile is now extremely popular.  I have seen this kind of "shock jock" blogging/marketing articles before with respect to Agile.  The company who wrote the original report is selling... guess what? Reports!  They have a financial incentive to cause controversy and attract the ire of the fervent Agile community!  Don't feed the trolls!
          >
          >
          > In one interesting statement from the report:
          > "The Agile movement shifts the broad, inter-departmental process of
          > software engineering to one that is focused on software development to
          > the exclusion of QA and operations"
          >
          > Anyone who knows anything about Agile knows that the above quoted sentence means the entire report has no credibility.  It's amazing sometimes how easy it is to sniff out a charlatan.
          >
        • kschwaber
          I never said that Scrum, and the path to agility would be easy. However, the latest Standish Group report shows that Agile is 3X more effective in delivering
          Message 4 of 8 , Aug 16, 2012
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            I never said that Scrum, and the path to agility would be easy. However, the latest Standish Group report shows that Agile is 3X more effective in delivering successful projects, the GAO now highly recommends agility be a mandate on all new initiatives, and - if organizations don't like agile processes - they can certainly go back to waterfall.

            I found the article to be extremely ill-informed.

            Best,
            Ken

            --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "jessicacp23" <jessicacp23@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > http://adtmag.com/Articles/2012/07/13/Report-Says-Agile-a-Scam.aspx?Page=1
            >
          • woynam
            Here s an article/report title that you ll never see: Report Finds Firms Doing Agile Correctly Find No Benefits Mark
            Message 5 of 8 , Aug 16, 2012
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              Here's an article/report title that you'll never see:

              "Report Finds Firms Doing Agile Correctly Find No Benefits"

              Mark

              --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "kschwaber" <ken.schwaber@...> wrote:
              >
              > I never said that Scrum, and the path to agility would be easy. However, the latest Standish Group report shows that Agile is 3X more effective in delivering successful projects, the GAO now highly recommends agility be a mandate on all new initiatives, and - if organizations don't like agile processes - they can certainly go back to waterfall.
              >
              > I found the article to be extremely ill-informed.
              >
              > Best,
              > Ken
              >
              > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "jessicacp23" <jessicacp23@> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > http://adtmag.com/Articles/2012/07/13/Report-Says-Agile-a-Scam.aspx?Page=1
              > >
              >
            • Michael Wollin
              How can I access this Standish Group report? Can you post it here or does on have to buy it? Was the GAO recommendation what Jeff Sutherland posted about Agile
              Message 6 of 8 , Aug 23, 2012
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                Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Has anyone else seen this article slamming Agile? How can I access this Standish Group report? Can you post it here or does on have to buy it?

                Was the GAO recommendation what Jeff Sutherland posted about Agile DOD or something else?


                On 8/16/12 4:33 PM, "Ken Schwaber" <ken.schwaber@...> wrote:

                I never said that Scrum, and the path to agility would be easy. However, the latest Standish Group report shows that Agile is 3X more effective in delivering successful projects, the GAO now highly recommends agility be a mandate on all new initiatives, and - if organizations don't like agile processes - they can certainly go back to waterfall.

                I found the article to be extremely ill-informed.

                Best,
                Ken

                --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scrumdevelopment%40yahoogroups.com> , "jessicacp23" <jessicacp23@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > http://adtmag.com/Articles/2012/07/13/Report-Says-Agile-a-Scam.aspx?Page=1
                >

                 
                   


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