Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [scrumdevelopment] Question

Expand Messages
  • Christian Edward Gruber
    Greetings all, I ve been hanging around the OpenBSD mailing lists for years, and this sort of issues is a massively recurring one there. And the answer that
    Message 1 of 40 , Dec 1, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      Greetings all,

      I've been hanging around the OpenBSD mailing lists for years, and
      this sort of issues is a massively recurring one there. And the answer
      that group had was, "read the %&#*@$ FAQs and manual pages before
      posting and then we won't abuse you for asking dumb questions" (and I'm
      not exaggerating here). Three things have happened as a result.

      1. With the exception of tangents on legal issues of software
      development, the quality of the discussion is very very high, as far as
      technical and design content, which, for most lists, is the point.

      2. A culture of excellence has emerged, but with a large group of
      intimidated people.

      3. New users are initimidated, and tend to not post unless they're
      brave, foolish, or have exhausted all documentation in their search for
      an answer.

      This approach has worked for that group, especially since there are
      alot of chickens among the intimidated folk, and I think that fact
      sparked the whole snarky arrogance thing. Chickens in this case are
      users who are not involved with adding features, but who request lots of
      them. When you get chickens in with the pigs, the pigs get really
      really irate. It shows up more in that forum, because the chickens
      don't have the kind of power in an open-source project that they do when
      they control budgets, so the pigs feel free to heap slop on the
      chickens. What I would hate is for pigs to get intimidated in THIS
      forum. On one hand, the intensity of the discussions, even about
      nit-pickety details, can often lead to new plateaus of function and
      awareness. "From the clash of differing opinions, the spark of truth
      can shine". But this is also about empowerment, so we can't leave
      people in the dust.

      So how do we deal with it? Well, I do think that a regularly
      circulated FAQ would be valuable. I aknowledge the previous post that
      mentioned the non-answerability of many frequently asked questions.
      However, one can answer unanswerable questions with a context, rather
      than a fact. Ken does this in class. I heard more "it depends" answers
      to questions in the CSM training than in any other class I've been in.
      I started thinking it was aversion therapy, but in truth, I think I get
      it. We're controlling complex processes, and there are no single right
      answers. However, in a FAQ, we can (since this whole web-thingy is so
      linkable) put references to anecdotes that are instructive, or examples
      of people solving that problem, and keep re-iterating the mantra: "Your
      context may vary - use your intuition, your awareness of your
      circumstance, and learn."

      As for nit-pickety detailed tangents, I agree, these can probably
      be curtailed after a certain depth. If some less shy person can pipe up
      when it gets rediculous and say "take it offline, bubs" then we can keep
      the list leaner.
      Calling "SCRUM" could also work.

      Lastly, for those who are shy or retiring on lists like this, or
      intimidated... we're all human. There are no "sages" here. Having
      spent time with expert technical lists, or with other high-falutin'
      academic mailing lists with triple-Ph.D.s on it, I can assure you that
      we/they all make stupid mistakes, we/they all have prejudices. Even
      experts are limited by their experiences unless their minds are open. A
      new practitioner might have fresh insights that their newness and
      openness will give them. So to the shy ones, please say something. If
      you have a view, please don't feel like you can't share it. Sometimes
      it will be brililant beyond the boundaries of those with more
      experience. Sometimes it'll be embarassingly obvious. Sometimes,
      others will learn something. A moderator would be useful here in cases
      where people are shamed for offering an innocent observation or asking a
      naive question.

      regards,
      Christian.

      Dawn wrote:

      >Okay.
      >
      >My name is Dawn Bauleke, and I'm a lurker. (Hi, Dawn!)
      >
      >I attended the San Jose class and heck YES I'm intimidated by the list - mainly because so many are the contributors I have read, perused the sites of, marveled at the knowledge of, but have not (yet) MET. But you just called me on it, so here I am, answering.
      >
      >[snip]
      >
      >Having said that, now I'm going to retreat into the lurker's alley for awhile more...
      >
      >~dawn~
      >
      >

      --
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Christian E. Gruber President, Israfil Consulting Services Corp.
      (905) 640-1119 (office) cgruber@...
      (416) 930-6023 (cell) http://www.israfil.net
    • Gary F
      ... A number of people have mentioned the confusion and balkanization that would result from multiple forums. I disagree. Confusion as to the appropriate
      Message 40 of 40 , Dec 7, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        --- Dawn <dawn@...> wrote:

        >
        > Dividing into multiple forums as was suggested does feel unnatural
        > and, as
        > somebody pointed out, would result in confusion as to what list would
        > give
        > the best experience. AND would result in a lot of good information

        A number of people have mentioned the confusion and balkanization that
        would result from multiple forums. I disagree.

        Confusion as to the appropriate forum is essentially the same problem
        as with confusion as to what keyword to put into the subject. People
        who are using the keywords as filters are in the same situation as
        people who only subscribe to a subset of the lists/forums.

        The (bad) balkanization problem is a result of both divisions that
        aren't well defined and the technology. Mailing lists and news groups
        are particularly prone to this problem, but other online forums can
        reduce or even eliminate the problem. Many bboards allow discussions
        to be moved from one forum (really a subforum) to another.

        Personally, my favorite is the Propsero technology, use by many
        services and available at DelphiForums for individuals and groups.
        See, for example, Inifinite Loops (general programming discussion) at
        http://forums.delphiforums.com/infinite_loops/messages or the About
        Linux forum at http://forums.about.com/ab-linux/messages .

        My point is that these are all problems that can be solved. To borrow
        from Ken Schwaber's first exercise at the Scrum class, we should be
        looking at this issue from the "yes, and..." perspective, not the "yes,
        but ..." perspective.

        Gary





        __________________________________
        Do you Yahoo!?
        The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do?
        http://my.yahoo.com
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.