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Re: "metaphor" article

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  • aacockburn
    ... I am on record as defending the idea of software development as a (finite, resource-limited) cooperative game (of invention and communication) . IMHO it
    Message 1 of 22 , Dec 1, 2004
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      --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, todd <todd@p...> wrote:
      > Joseph Pelrine wrote:
      > > >I think any thing of any complexity becomes its own metaphor.
      >
      > useful broad scale software related metaphors? Perhaps you can
      > share some you like?

      I am on record as defending the idea of "software development as a
      (finite, resource-limited) cooperative game (of invention and
      communication)". IMHO it scales very nicely and covers everything but
      the individual craft aspect, which is neatly hit by
      Naur's "programming as theory building."

      Both are written up in detail in the Agile Software Development book,
      and also online at
      http://alistair.cockburn.us/crystal/articles/cgm/cooperativegamemanife
      sto.html
      http://alistair.cockburn.us/crystal/articles/sdacg/softwaredevelopment
      asacooperativegame.html
      http://alistair.cockburn.us/crystal/articles/crystal/books/asd/extract
      s/asdapp2/asdapp2naurehnmusashi.htm
      and
      http://alistair.cockburn.us/crystal/articles/teoseatsoecg/theendofsoft
      wareengineering.htm

      I've also written about software development as community poetry
      writing
      (http://alistair.cockburn.us/crystal/articles/sdacpw/softwaredevelopme
      ntascommunitypoetrywriting.html), but that was strictly to highlight
      certain aspects of software developmet that don't get enough
      attention, not as an explanatory model.

      Alistair
    • Clarke Ching
      Hi everyone, I missed the start of this thread so odds are I m completely off target here. I recently discovered an analogoy or metaphor (what s the
      Message 2 of 22 , Dec 1, 2004
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        Hi everyone,
         
        I missed the start of this thread so odds are I'm completely off target here.
         
        I recently discovered an analogoy or metaphor (what's the difference?) for the waterfall way of doing things. 
         
        I'm sure there are many things wrong with it and I may be accussed of sharing too much informaiton ... but ... take a look.
         
        Warning: it involves dried apricots, the band Simple Minds and rather hurried taxi trip:
         
         
        Clarke
      • Karl Scotland
        ... Now that s a particularly interesting one to me, being in the digital TV domain! Do you have any more info? Links? Tried google with no luck! Karl
        Message 3 of 22 , Dec 1, 2004
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          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Mike Cohn [mailto:mike@...]
          >
          > Do a google search on "software is like" and you're sure to
          > find that it's like just about everything, including:
          >
          > Like TiVo

          Now that's a particularly interesting one to me, being in the digital TV
          domain! Do you have any more info? Links? Tried google with no luck!

          Karl
        • Mike Cohn
          I checked that metaphor more and it was a bit of false match on software is like.. Here s a link: http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/041116/165431_1.html The statement
          Message 4 of 22 , Dec 1, 2004
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            I checked that metaphor more and it was a bit of false match on "software is
            like.."

            Here's a link: http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/041116/165431_1.html

            The statement it makes is that our "software is like tivo for streaming
            media." So it's a description of their product, not the software process
            itself.

            --Mike

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Karl Scotland [mailto:kscotland@...]
            Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 8:43 AM
            To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] Help - looking for recent "metaphor" article



            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Mike Cohn [mailto:mike@...]
            >
            > Do a google search on "software is like" and you're sure to
            > find that it's like just about everything, including:
            >
            > Like TiVo

            Now that's a particularly interesting one to me, being in the digital TV
            domain! Do you have any more info? Links? Tried google with no luck!

            Karl



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          • aacockburn
            ... target ... difference?) for ... of ... rather ... Fascinating analogy! However, for the analogy to be meaningful, you would want the reader to infer that
            Message 5 of 22 , Dec 1, 2004
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              --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Clarke Ching" <lists@c...>
              wrote:
              > Hi everyone,
              >
              > I missed the start of this thread so odds are I'm completely off
              target
              > here.
              >
              > I recently discovered an analogoy or metaphor (what's the
              difference?) for
              > the waterfall way of doing things.
              >
              > I'm sure there are many things wrong with it and I may be accussed
              of
              > sharing too much informaiton ... but ... take a look.
              >
              > Warning: it involves dried apricots, the band Simple Minds and
              rather
              > hurried taxi trip:
              >
              > http://www.clarkeching.com/2004/11/simple_minds_dr.html
              >
              > Clarke


              Fascinating analogy! However, for the analogy to be meaningful, you
              would want the reader to infer that if you eat 5 dried apricots you
              go to the bathroom for a 3 minute visit, and if you eat 10 dried
              apricots you go to the bathroom for a 8 minute visit, and if you eat
              20 dried apricots you run to the bathroom and stay in there for half
              an hour.

              I'm not sure dried apricots have that effect. That is the effect of
              doing / not doing incremental integration and testing though, which
              is what you're working to communicate.

              And I am stumped over one thing --- don't they have bathrooms at
              Simple Minds concerts? ;-)
            • Deb
              So, it seems the short answer is: Nobody recognises the article I m looking for, from my description. Oh well. I had started reading it and somehow lost track
              Message 6 of 22 , Dec 1, 2004
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                So, it seems the short answer is:
                Nobody recognises the article I'm looking for, from my description.
                Oh well. I had started reading it and somehow lost track of it.
                Well, if anyone spots it on the web, please let me know.
                Thanks!
                deb

                PS: didn't find the link I wanted, but there has been lots of
                interesting conversation on the topic - bonus! :-)

                --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Cohn" <mike@m...>
                wrote:
                > I checked that metaphor more and it was a bit of false match
                on "software is
                > like.."
                >
                > Here's a link: http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/041116/165431_1.html
                >
                > The statement it makes is that our "software is like tivo for
                streaming
                > media." So it's a description of their product, not the software
                process
                > itself.
                >
                > --Mike
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Karl Scotland [mailto:kscotland@t...]
                > Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 8:43 AM
                > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] Help - looking for
                recent "metaphor" article
                >
                >
                >
                > > -----Original Message-----
                > > From: Mike Cohn [mailto:mike@m...]
                > >
                > > Do a google search on "software is like" and you're sure to
                > > find that it's like just about everything, including:
                > >
                > > Like TiVo
                >
                > Now that's a particularly interesting one to me, being in the
                digital TV
                > domain! Do you have any more info? Links? Tried google with no
                luck!
                >
                > Karl
                >
                >
                >
                > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@e...
                > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@e...
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
              • woynam
                Given the recent string of hot threads, I d propose the following: Agile software development is like teen sex: - Everybody is talking about it - Most are
                Message 7 of 22 , Dec 1, 2004
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                  Given the recent string of "hot" threads, I'd propose the following:

                  Agile software development is like teen sex:

                  - Everybody is talking about it
                  - Most are not doing it
                  - Those that are doing it, are doing it wrong

                  ;-)

                  Mark

                  --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Deb" <deborah@h...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I recently saw a blog or article somewhere (???) recently, where
                  > someone in this crowd was reflecting on suitable metaphors for what
                  we
                  > do. Specifically, I believe it was an alternative to the
                  manufacturing
                  > metaphor. Might have been following OOPSLA in Vancouver?
                  >
                  > Can anyone suggest what I might be looking for and where I can find
                  > it? I've searched my blogs and the Agile Alliance library to no
                  avail...
                  >
                  > I think I've reached saturation... or old timers disease is
                  starting :-)
                  > deb
                • Hubert Smits
                  Hi Todd, While building an Internet Bank in Scotland the metaphore used by the team was that of a production line. On a production line a car (for example)
                  Message 8 of 22 , Dec 1, 2004
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                    Hi Todd,

                    While building an Internet Bank in Scotland the metaphore used by the
                    team was that of a production line. On a production line a car (for
                    example) goes from station to station. Each station adds a nut or bolt
                    and at the end of the line a car rolls of. The process in the bank,
                    and the IT system supporting it was based on this idea: every station
                    adds something to the product (a mortgage or a loan). E.g. a station
                    provides information (rates, payback periods etc). Then a station
                    takes details of the customer and the desired product. Next one does a
                    credit check. Then paperwork is printed. Paperwork checked. Money
                    released. Postings made to the GL etc. etc.

                    Is that a metaphor you were looking for?

                    --Hubert


                    On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 22:47:34 -0800, todd <todd@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Joseph Pelrine wrote:
                    >
                    > > At 20:50 27.11.2004, you wrote:
                    > >
                    > > >I think any thing of any complexity becomes its own metaphor. Saying
                    > > >software is like X doesn't add much light. It reflects more of the story
                    > > >teller than the story.
                    > >
                    > > I beg to disagree.
                    >
                    > No need to beg. I don't really disagree with much of what you said, yet
                    > i have not seen
                    > useful broad scale software related metaphors. Perhaps you can share
                    > some you like?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
                    > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Dion Stewart
                    Deb, Could these be it? http://www.domaindrivendesign.org/wiki/?page=SoftwareDevelopmentIsLike http://domaindrivendesign.org/articles/blog/
                    Message 9 of 22 , Dec 1, 2004
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                      Deb,

                      Could these be it?

                      http://www.domaindrivendesign.org/wiki/?page=SoftwareDevelopmentIsLike

                      http://domaindrivendesign.org/articles/blog/
                      evans_eric_software_is_not_like_that.html

                      Dion


                      On Wednesday, December 1, 2004, at 01:20 PM, Deb wrote:

                      > So, it seems the short answer is:
                      > Nobody recognises the article I'm looking for, from my description.
                      > Oh well. I had started reading it and somehow lost track of it.
                      > Well, if anyone spots it on the web, please let me know.
                      > Thanks!
                      > deb
                    • Mike Dwyer
                      15 yards, woyman unnecessary metaphor. Penalty to be taken from the time your users ask for another insane last minute change. (^8 Michael F. Dwyer
                      Message 10 of 22 , Dec 1, 2004
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                        15 yards, woyman unnecessary metaphor. Penalty to be taken from the time
                        your users ask for another insane last minute change.

                        (^8

                        Michael F. Dwyer

                        Mike.Dwyer1@...



                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: woynam [mailto:woyna@...]
                        Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 3:23 PM
                        To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Help - looking for recent "metaphor" article



                        Given the recent string of "hot" threads, I'd propose the following:

                        Agile software development is like teen sex:

                        - Everybody is talking about it
                        - Most are not doing it
                        - Those that are doing it, are doing it wrong

                        ;-)

                        Mark

                        --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Deb" <deborah@h...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I recently saw a blog or article somewhere (???) recently, where
                        > someone in this crowd was reflecting on suitable metaphors for what
                        we
                        > do. Specifically, I believe it was an alternative to the
                        manufacturing
                        > metaphor. Might have been following OOPSLA in Vancouver?
                        >
                        > Can anyone suggest what I might be looking for and where I can find
                        > it? I've searched my blogs and the Agile Alliance library to no
                        avail...
                        >
                        > I think I've reached saturation... or old timers disease is
                        starting :-)
                        > deb






                        To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
                        To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                        scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
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                      • Karl Scotland
                        Ah. That s a shame. Mind you, it makes me wonder whether I could come up with a tv related metaphor that would really work where I am, or whether it might be
                        Message 11 of 22 , Dec 2, 2004
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                          Ah. That's a shame.
                          Mind you, it makes me wonder whether I could come up with a tv related
                          metaphor that would really work where I am, or whether it might be a bit
                          contrived.

                          Karl

                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: Mike Cohn [mailto:mike@...]
                          >
                          > I checked that metaphor more and it was a bit of false match
                          > on "software is like.."
                          >
                          > Here's a link: http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/041116/165431_1.html
                          >
                          > The statement it makes is that our "software is like tivo for
                          > streaming media." So it's a description of their product,
                          > not the software process itself.
                          >
                          > --Mike
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: Karl Scotland [mailto:kscotland@...]
                          >
                          > > -----Original Message-----
                          > > From: Mike Cohn [mailto:mike@...]
                          > >
                          > > Do a google search on "software is like" and you're sure to
                          > > find that it's like just about everything, including:
                          > >
                          > > Like TiVo
                          >
                          > Now that's a particularly interesting one to me, being in the
                          > digital TV domain! Do you have any more info? Links? Tried
                          > google with no luck!
                          >
                        • Joseph Pelrine
                          ... How about starting with something like writing software is like working for the BBC , and see how far that analogy gets you ;-) Cheers -- Joseph Pelrine [
                          Message 12 of 22 , Dec 2, 2004
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                            At 09:51 02.12.2004, you wrote:

                            >Ah. That's a shame.
                            >Mind you, it makes me wonder whether I could come up with a tv related
                            >metaphor that would really work where I am, or whether it might be a bit
                            >contrived.

                            How about starting with something like "writing software is like working
                            for the BBC", and see how far that analogy gets you ;-)

                            Cheers

                            --
                            Joseph Pelrine [ | ]
                            MetaProg GmbH
                            Email: jpelrine@...
                            Web: http://www.metaprog.com

                            You don't become enormously successful without encountering some really
                            interesting problems.
                            - Mark Victor Hansen
                          • Karl Scotland
                            ... That could get me into a whole lot of trouble as I m now working for a competitor (in so far as the BBC has competitors :) Karl
                            Message 13 of 22 , Dec 2, 2004
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                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: Joseph Pelrine [mailto:jpelrine@...]
                              >
                              > How about starting with something like "writing software is
                              > like working
                              > for the BBC", and see how far that analogy gets you ;-)

                              That could get me into a whole lot of trouble as I'm now working for a
                              competitor (in so far as the BBC has competitors :)

                              Karl
                            • todd
                              Hubert, i think there are a lot of tactical metaphors like you describe. They help us bootstrap from one domain to another. But what about your software do i
                              Message 14 of 22 , Dec 2, 2004
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                                Hubert, i think there are a lot of tactical metaphors like you describe.
                                They
                                help us bootstrap from one domain to another. But what about your software
                                do i really know now?

                                If you are describing the system to a muggle then you have given them a
                                hand up
                                in understanding.

                                As a software developer i see a universe of choices, decisions, options,
                                and implementations
                                that could lead to an infinite set of concrete systems. When i dig into
                                the real system it
                                forms its own domain. In time you will be using your system as the
                                source domain for other metaphoric
                                mappings. It's a cyclic folding and unfolding and of mappings. Pick a
                                different
                                point in the cycle and you will see and understand something differently.

                                Where is the true metaphor? That's like looking at a hologram and saying
                                where is
                                the true image. It is implicate in all parts of the system.

                                Hubert Smits wrote:

                                > Hi Todd,
                                >
                                > While building an Internet Bank in Scotland the metaphore used by the
                                > team was that of a production line. On a production line a car (for
                                > example) goes from station to station. Each station adds a nut or bolt
                                > and at the end of the line a car rolls of. The process in the bank,
                                > and the IT system supporting it was based on this idea: every station
                                > adds something to the product (a mortgage or a loan). E.g. a station
                                > provides information (rates, payback periods etc). Then a station
                                > takes details of the customer and the desired product. Next one does a
                                > credit check. Then paperwork is printed. Paperwork checked. Money
                                > released. Postings made to the GL etc. etc.
                                >
                                > Is that a metaphor you were looking for?
                                >
                                > --Hubert
                                >
                                >
                                > On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 22:47:34 -0800, todd <todd@...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Joseph Pelrine wrote:
                                > >
                                > > > At 20:50 27.11.2004, you wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > >I think any thing of any complexity becomes its own metaphor. Saying
                                > > > >software is like X doesn't add much light. It reflects more of
                                > the story
                                > > > >teller than the story.
                                > > >
                                > > > I beg to disagree.
                                > >
                                > > No need to beg. I don't really disagree with much of what you said, yet
                                > > i have not seen
                                > > useful broad scale software related metaphors. Perhaps you can share
                                > > some you like?
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
                                > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                                > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
                                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
                                > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
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                              • mike.dwyer1@comcast.net
                                The Stone s you can t always get what you want is what I keep on hearing when business people ask for somethings. John Sebastian s Did you ever have to make
                                Message 15 of 22 , Dec 2, 2004
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                                  The Stone's "you can't always get what you want" is what I keep on hearing when business people ask for somethings.
                                   
                                  John Sebastian's "Did you ever have to make up your mind." are the words I sing to folks who want to collapse a 9 month project into 1 month.
                                   
                                  But the question is are these metaphors or just something simile-r to them.
                                   
                                  --
                                  Mike Dwyer

                                  "I Keep six faithful serving-men
                                  Who serve me well and true:
                                  Their names are What and Where and When
                                  And How and Why and Who." - Kipling
                                   
                                  -------------- Original message --------------

                                  >
                                  > Ah. That's a shame.
                                  > Mind you, it makes me wonder whether I could come up with a tv related
                                  > metaphor that would really work where I am, or whether it might be a bit
                                  > contrived.
                                  >
                                  > Karl
                                  >
                                  > > -----Original Message-----
                                  > > From: Mike Cohn [mailto:mike@...]
                                  > >
                                  > > I checked that metaphor more and it was a bit of false match
                                  > > on "software is like.."
                                  > >
                                  > > Here's a link: http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/041116/165431_1.html
                                  > >
                                  > > The statement it makes is that our "software is like tivo for
                                  > > streaming media." So it's a description of their product,
                                  > > not the software process itself.
                                  > >
                                  > > --Mike
                                  > >
                                  > > -----Original Message-----
                                  > > From: Karl Scotland [mailto:kscotland@...]
                                  > >
                                  > > > -----Original Message-----
                                  > > > From: Mike Cohn [mailto:mike@...]
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Do a google search on "software is like" and you're sure to
                                  > > > find that it's like just about everything, including:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Like TiVo
                                  > >
                                  > > Now that's a particularly interesting one to me, being in the
                                  > > digital TV domain! Do you have any more info? Links? Tried
                                  > > google with no luck!
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
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