FW: [scrumdevelopment] Question
MessageDittos to what Michael said below.My experience with lists and boards comes primarily from fitness sites.There is only one site in my experience that is GREAT. Great in that it supports hard core fitness nuts, total newbies and everything in between. It provides a forum for serious, detailed discussions of exercise physiology, mechanics and nutrition, and not-so-detailed or sophisticated questions like 'what's a deadlift' or my favorite question from today 'can you rip your arms clean out of your body by doing deadlifts'.The forum format is more conductive, again my personal experience, to these diverse thought streams than is an email list. What also differentiate the board I'm referring to from all others is a very strong global moderator who gently nudges people in the right direction when their posts get off (forum) topic or off 'attitude', and doesn't tolerate any seriously unproductive posts (e.g., personal attacks). With between 1 and 2 million hits a day, it's fair to say the site is doing some things good enough to consider emulating.One way to escape debate on this would be to just set it up and see if it worked. How about a 30 day sprint to do just that?- Michael Bannen-------Original Message-----Greetings all:
From: Michael Spayd [mailto:michael.spayd@...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 11:00 PM
Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Question
I decided to chime in here since, for me, the posts thus far do not
adequately acknowledge what Ken was saying. His words were that
newcomers experience this list as a *somewhat hostile environment for
learning* and *confrontational* to the point of scaring them off.
I have been involved fairly intensively with all manner of agile
methodologies for five years. I have taught agile to hundreds of
people, I have coached quite a few teams, yada, yada, yada. My point
is that even as an oldcomer (??) I can feel intimidated by the TONE of
It is not the answers themselves, or the different and potentially
contradictory responses I would get, or displays of brilliance, or
anything else to do with being a newbie. I think it is something else.
I know that it is very easy to get into being slightly smug and having
a mildly arrogant tone when we are debating nits and being precise and
displaying our wisdom. I know that I do it. It takes quite a bit of
self-discipline for me not to do this (I edited this post like crazy,
for instance :-)). The bottom line is that when I come off this way it
can put others off. Some don't think anything of it, but others do.
The net result is that I myself would not particularly want to ask a
*real* question of this list. I wouldn't feel particularly safe doing
that. It is much safer to give answers and opinions. At least it is
for me. And that is not an environment where it is easy to collaborate
or to learn.
I don't particularly have an answer for Ken's issue . I just wanted to
acknowledge what is true for me. I don't think the issue is just for
newbies. Maybe we should ask the hundreds of lurkers what they
Michael K. Spayd
"Business Mind, Social Heart"
> From: Ken Schwaber[mailto:ken.schwaber@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 7:37PM
> To: email@example.com[scrumdevelopment] Question
>newsters to ScrumDevelopment egroup to get
> I often refer Scrum
> answers to "has anybody elserun into this?" and "how do I do this?"
> I've been getting feedback thatthey are intimidated from posting
> and participating since they feelthat ScrumDevelopment is a
> somewhat hostile environment for learning.Some of the conversations
> and threads are pretty confrontational aswell as picking of
> methodological nits, and this has scared and turnedthem off.
>purposes that I
> I watched the XP yahoo group become unusable to the
> describe above, and I'd sure like to avoid thathappening to our
> egroup. Any suggestions?Ken
To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
MessagePilot: As a pilot, over the next 10 days I'm setting up ScrumForums.com as a scrum bulletin board.Competition: the site is not intended to be competition w/this list, but rather an exploration of more effective means of supporting greater and more diverse interest in SCRUM. If this functionality is eventually added to the scrum alliance site, then we can shut this site down, or....whatever.Moderators: I'm hopeful that some of the very senior Scrum folks on here will agree to moderate.Forums: If you have ideas on the initial forums that should be created, please email me.Reviewers: If you don't have ideas on topics but are willing to 'vote' on them, please send me your email address and I will contact you off line.Push back: please push back if you think this is not a worthwhile exercise. I'll do it anyway, but all feedback is useful.- Michael
- Kudos for initiative, Micheal.
Wow. Lots to think about. Most of which I'll post in a different
message, since it's about the overall topic. I will just suggest that a
good moderator is not necessarily an experienced Scrum practitioner,
though B might often imply A. Good moderators are people who can, in
the words of an old friend "encourage the meek and quell the
loquacious". Such a person may but might not be a Scrum old-timer.
Just keep it all in mind.
For forum site such as this, I'd recommend a newbie "getting started'
forum with a "sticky" FAQ, and a regular committment of its moderator to
comb the thread and pull out FAQ material.
The only push-back I'd have is that I think having a list in which
all... er... Scrumbags?... can participate is entirely worthwhile. The
intimidation factor needs to be addressed, and tangents need to be
handled, but overall the community building of this sort of forum cannot
be overestimated. As long as this effect can be replicated in the fora,
then it's not really push-back, as much as a requirement for the backlog.
Michael Bannen wrote:
> *_Pilot_*: As a pilot, over the next 10 days I'm setting up
> ScrumForums.com as a scrum bulletin board.
> *_Competition_*: the site is _not_ intended to be competition w/this
> list, but rather an exploration of more effective means of supporting
> greater and more diverse interest in SCRUM. If this functionality is
> eventually added to the scrum alliance site, then we can shut this
> site down, or....whatever.
> *_Moderators_*: I'm hopeful that some of the very senior Scrum folks
> on here will agree to moderate.
> *_Forums_*: If you have ideas on the initial forums that should be
> created, please email me.
> *_Reviewers_*: If you don't have ideas on topics but are willing to
> 'vote' on them, please send me your email address and I will contact
> you off line.
> *_Push back_*: please push back if you think this is not a worthwhile
> exercise. I'll do it anyway, but all feedback is useful.
> - Michael
- --- Michael Bannen <mbannen@...> wrote:
> Pilot: As a pilot, over the next 10 days I'm setting up"scrumforums.com could not be found." The ten days aren't up. My
guess is that the DNS entries haven't been made or distributed yet, but
it might be some other configuration problem. The WhoIS at Network
Solutions does know about it, so it's not a spelling error.
Is this just recent, did I miss a note pointing this out, or does the
lack of any comment on the unavailability of the web site indicate that
everyone thinks it's a great idea, but no one is actually going to
check it out?
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
- DNS entries haven't populated yet...I don't know what the deal is. I've
been doing development on another server anyhow.
Friday you can either go to ScrumForums.com or forums.scrumforums.com.
> --- Michael Bannen wrote:
> > Pilot: As a pilot, over the next 10 days I'm setting up
> > ScrumForums.com
> "scrumforums.com could not be found." The ten days aren't up.
> guess is that the DNS entries haven't been made or distributed yet, but
> it might be some other configuration problem. The WhoIS at Network
> Solutions does know about it, so it's not a spelling error.
> Is this just recent, did I miss a note pointing this out, or does the
> lack of any comment on the unavailability of the web site indicate that
> everyone thinks it's a great idea, but no one is actually going to
> check it out?
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.