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Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Same person as ScrumMaster and Project Manager at the same time

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  • Morgan Ahlström
    Hi Charles, I believe there are individuals that can handle this but I wouldn t design a system that makes it hard for people to do a good job. Since the PM
    Message 1 of 57 , Apr 13, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi Charles,

      I believe there are individuals that can handle this but I wouldn't design a system that makes it hard for people to do a good job. Since the PM would have some of the PO responsibilities as well as the SM responsibilities this would be somewhat like institutionalizing having the same person as SM and PO. It could work but I wouldn't bet my money on it.

      Regarding where the whip will be aimed in the future, if there'll be a whip; I really don't know.

      BR

      Morgan


      On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 9:32 PM, Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSM PSM I <chuck-lists2@...> wrote:
       

      Morgan,

      Yes, that was the crux of the issue in my experiences...

      Can the PM let go of command and control and transform to a servant leader?  
      Can the Org let go of their view that PM's should be C&C?

      Those are the heart of whether they can adapt, and it sounds like you think they cannot, so a Dev SM might have more of a fair fight in terms of defending technically why the quality shouldn't be cut. 

      However, will the Org just re-aim their C&C whip at the SM?  If so, the problem still remains.
       
      -------
      Charles Bradley
      http://www.ScrumCrazy.com



      Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 6:17 AM

      Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Same person as ScrumMaster and Project Manager at the same time



      Hi again Charles,

      thanks for really helpful input. I recognize your experiences and going through the responsibilities looking for countermeasures to balance out harmful parts sounds like a good way to go. I do think the main problem is the PM delivery responsibility that I fear will/can crash with the SM part of protecting the team. 
      We've realized that the planned scope that the PM committed to won't fit into the release, will the PM renegotiate the scope or try pushing more work into the sprints or order overtime? The answer will of course depend on the person and the situation but I doubt that the SM part of this person will come out as a winner all the time (nor would a separate SM but at least it would be more of a fair fight).

      BR

      Morgan



      On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 5:42 PM, Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSM PSM I <chuck-lists2@...> wrote:
       
      Morgan,

      Returning back to your original query, I'm assuming you're doing a bottom up transformation where you've attracted some attention from above.  You seem to indicate that your organization has several dysfunctions that might prevent Scrum from succeeding, but that you're trying to remove those one by one, including your original question.

      I will now summarize my coaching experiences related to the original topic of PM playing both the PM role and the SM role.
      • I do not believe that the mere presence of a PM means you are not doing Scrum, so I agree with you that "There is no PM role in Scrum" advice is unhelpful.
      • I have seen very few PM's that, with extensive coaching and/or training, are able to separate the PM and SM role and execute it well, but I have seen it done.  These appeared to be the success factors based on my experiences:
        • PM was already in line with "servant leadership" in their traditional PM role, so doing SM role was a fairly natural fit (so long as they learned to separate the roles)
        • Close in coaching by a highly Scrum knowledgeable person
        • The org did not expect the PM's to be command and control leaders, but instead expected them to be servant leader PM's.  In other words, when things went awry, they didn't hold the PM responsible for fixing them -- they just held them responsible for making sure the team fixed them in some way, and held the PM responsible for communicating progress to the wider org about resolving the obstacles.
      • I have seen more situations where PM's were bad, or in some cases, horrible SM's.  These appeared to be the failure factors based on my experiences.
        • PM's were command and control, and the org expected them to be so.  Said another way, when things went wrong, the org expected the PM to ensure it gets fixed, and held the PM's feet to the fire when it didn't.
        • PM's were not adequately trained on Scrum, so they attempted Scrum using the  Methodology Facade Pattern:
          • http://kenschwaber.wordpress.com/2010/10/20/methodology-facade-pattern/
          • I actually was brought in to clean up after a disaster like this.  When I started, Scrum was a "dirty word" with the VP.  Six months later, the VP was in love with our Scrum implementation and proud to show it off to other organizations.  Please note that while I was *one* of the success factors, IMO, there were many other factors(not related to me) that played a role in this org's success of ripping victory from the jaws of defeat.  One of the solutions was to make a developer on the team the SM instead of a former PM.  It just so happened that there was a developer on the team who a) was eventually interested in being SM and b) was one of those people that other people describe as a "natural born leader."
      I haven't had a lot of good experiences to draw upon with plain 'ol developers being SM's, except the one I already mentioned.  I've seen some dev team leads attempt it, but not long enough for me to fairly judge, and from what I did see, they didn't do it well.
       
      Another way to integrate the PM is by listing out the traditional PM duties in your org such that you can then apply a mitigating practice to each of the PM responsibilities that is harmful to Scrum.  I essentially used that approach with one of the PM's that was of the servant leader type.

      I honestly believe that close-in coaching by an experienced coach is the best solution for training a good SM, but that's also a highly self serving statement.  Maybe *you* are that coach right now, and rather than documenting an approach that will surely be executed poorly by others in the org, what I'd rather see is your org free you up from all of your responsibilities and allow you to coach several teams on Scrum for a few months.  Then, maybe, would be a good time to document some of the things that seem to work well and don't work well for a wider approach to Scrum in your org.

       
      -------
      Charles Bradley
      http://www.ScrumCrazy.com



      Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 1:46 AM

      Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Same person as ScrumMaster and Project Manager at the same time



      Hi Charles,

      this is not a big bang Scrum implementation. It's a slow bottom up agile movement that is happening. Scrum is one approach among several that teams are trying to implement. Management is beginning to accept this (not embracing it) and I've been asked to come up with recommendations for how to get this to work within current structures and processes. It's not really rocket science, there are documented recommendations from other implementations on how to wed their current process framework with Scrum but it needs some site specific adjustments. There are definitely a lot of problems with management buy-in among other things and no-one would be happier than me to have more experienced people working on this but that is not about to happen right now.

      This will be a long and slow change and I will have to work with the existing system in order help the organization. Management has never asked me to implement Scrum so the assignment is obviously not to implement Scrum. But if a team choses to implement Scrum (as much as they can) and management forces them to also have a PM, I try to support the teams and find ways for this to work out as well as possible.

      My question in this thread was very specific about having one person act as both SM and PM at the same time because to my experience it is a poor combination but I'm about to be run over on this particular matter. I'm not too keen on putting my name on a document with these recommendations but at the same time, I'm not willing to jeopardize my entire job here because of one setback (there will be many of those along the way). Thus, the dogmatic answers about "Scrum has no place for PM's" really adds no value.

      I'm not in a position to give the entire context so I tried to limit the question with specific givens and lift if out of context as much as possible. I'm beginning to realize that this forum doesn't work well for questions this way without everyone making a lot of assumptions about the context and my ability draw the initial context based conclusions needed. I don't think that this forum is the proper place for me to air these questions anymore. Since it's a very active and well visited mailing list, it probably boils down to my way of expressing myself and my expectations but the combo has given me more work explaining and defending than it was worth.

      BR

      Morgan



      On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 12:08 AM, Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSM PSM I <chuck-lists2@...> wrote:
       
      > I could probably help a single team and a single SM/PM to get this to work but
      > we're talking about institutionalizing this design in an organization with 100+
      > development projects. So it's not so much about one person being able to handle
      > this as it is about designing a system where the forces work with you instead of against.
       
      Morgan,

      I was going to chime in on this thread when your question was about a single team, but as the thread has progressed, others have elicited information from you, and you have offered, too, that you're trying to design a Scrum approach to an org that has 100+ development projects in a large organization.

      Based on this thread and others you have opined in, and with all due respect, you sound like you might be taking on something that is beyond your skill set.   What you are embarking on is an Organizational Agile/Scrum transformation, and again, based on the questions you are asking, it appears to me that you are not an organizational Agile coach.  To see more on how I define "Organizational Coach," see:

      I'm sure you have the best of intentions, but if your organization is asking you to define an enterprise wide approach, I'm afraid they are placing a very tall order.  IMO, only the people that have the Scrum Alliance CSC (or equivalent experience) can really be successful at something like this.  My recommendation would be to find someone like that and get some help.  Maybe I'm wrong -- maybe you have the equivalent of the CSC, but it's not apparent from your posts so far.  No, I'm not a CSC so this message is not self serving at all.  In fact, this message is against my interests because it might make others on the list unhappy as well.

      If getting a CSC equivalent to help you is not an option, you might want to encourage the org to start much smaller, say with just a few teams.  This kind of "create a solution for the entire company" kind of thing is pretty fraught with danger.  It reminds me very much of "Big Bang" software releases, and those are 'so 1993'(American slang for 'old school approach' that has been replaced with better approaches since then). 

      -------
      Charles Bradley
      http://www.ScrumCrazy.com



      Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 2:47 AM
      Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Same person as ScrumMaster and Project Manager at the same time



      Hi Yves,

      I'm currently in a similar situation. However, I showed the PM that he can get any progress information by looking at the Product and Sprint backlogs as well as at the story points estimation and team velocity. He can also assist (silently) to the daily if he wants too but never did.

      He also works closely with the PO and influences him with the priorities.

      So far, it has worked OK since the PM is so busy with other projects that the team can manage the development all by itself. Maybe the trick would be to have a PM that is so busy that he will not interfere with the team if the team delivers what they commit to :-)

      At the end, if the PM is not a control freak, it should work out. Unfortunately, in some companies, SCRUM is desired but they have a very hard time letting go the old ways.

      I could probably help a single team and a single SM/PM to get this to work but we're talking about institutionalizing this design in an organization with 100+ development projects. So it's not so much about one person being able to handle this as it is about designing a system where the forces work with you instead of against.

      BR

      Morgan

       

      --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Paul Hudson <phudson@...> wrote:
      >
      > Just go with it.
      >
      > The project manager role can be project manager of the project, handling,
      > for example, the (commercial part of the) relationship with customer.
      > Maybe there are status reports to organise, training to schedule etc -
      > stuff outside the software development.
      >
      > He/she delegates to the Scrum team (as a whole) for the software, though.
      > That person can then be the SM for that (if they're very careful about
      > what hat they're wearing, they must avoid trying to project manage the
      > Scrum team).
      >
      > It may be there's nothing significant to do outside the software
      > development. Still doesn't prevent you declaring that person as the PM for
      > that part.
      >
      > Now, if they're saying the Scrum team must have a project manager to direct
      > their activities, you do have a problem, but it's not clear from what you
      > say that that is the case...
      >
      > Paul
      >
      > On 22 March 2012 10:36, Morgan Ahlström <morgan.ahlstrom@...> wrote:
      >
      > > **

      > >
      > >
      > > Hi everyone,
      > >
      > > just wanted to hear some views and arguments (for and against) in the
      > > following scenario:
      > >
      > > - A client demands that every project has a project manager. This is not
      > > negotiable at this time.
      > >
      > > - For smaller projects they want to use the project manager as ScrumMaster
      > > as well. They do not want to have two full time persons for these roles.
      > > I'm trying to negotiating this but not really succeeding.
      > >
      > > - The PO cannot be project manager. The POs come from the business side
      > > and have no experience from leading IT-projects and they are also
      > > overworked as it is. This is not negotiable at this time.
      > >
      > > I have my own ideas about combining PM and SM roles but I would very much
      > > like to hear from the community, especially from those of you with real
      > > experiences from this combo. What would be your arguments for or against
      > > doing this? Please give me arguments to use against it, or, convince me
      > > that this is a good idea.
      > >
      > > My suggestion has been to use a team member as SM and let the PM be a
      > > separate person but I've not been able to sell this idea so far.
      > >
      > > BR
      > >
      > > Morgan
      > > --
      > > __________________________________
      > > Phone: +46 (0)72 726 33 03
      > > Twitter: @Morgsterious
      > > Blog: http://morgsterious.wordpress.com
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >




      --
      __________________________________
      Phone: +46 (0)72 726 33 03
      Twitter: @Morgsterious
      Blog: http://morgsterious.wordpress.com







      --
      __________________________________
      Phone: +46 (0)72 726 33 03
      Twitter: @Morgsterious
      Blog: http://morgsterious.wordpress.com







      --
      __________________________________
      Phone: +46 (0)72 726 33 03
      Twitter: @Morgsterious
      Blog: http://morgsterious.wordpress.com







      --
      __________________________________
      Phone: +46 (0)72 726 33 03
      Twitter: @Morgsterious
      Blog: http://morgsterious.wordpress.com
    • Morgan Ahlström
      Hi Charles, I believe there are individuals that can handle this but I wouldn t design a system that makes it hard for people to do a good job. Since the PM
      Message 57 of 57 , Apr 13, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Charles,

        I believe there are individuals that can handle this but I wouldn't design a system that makes it hard for people to do a good job. Since the PM would have some of the PO responsibilities as well as the SM responsibilities this would be somewhat like institutionalizing having the same person as SM and PO. It could work but I wouldn't bet my money on it.

        Regarding where the whip will be aimed in the future, if there'll be a whip; I really don't know.

        BR

        Morgan


        On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 9:32 PM, Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSM PSM I <chuck-lists2@...> wrote:
         

        Morgan,

        Yes, that was the crux of the issue in my experiences...

        Can the PM let go of command and control and transform to a servant leader?  
        Can the Org let go of their view that PM's should be C&C?

        Those are the heart of whether they can adapt, and it sounds like you think they cannot, so a Dev SM might have more of a fair fight in terms of defending technically why the quality shouldn't be cut. 

        However, will the Org just re-aim their C&C whip at the SM?  If so, the problem still remains.
         
        -------
        Charles Bradley
        http://www.ScrumCrazy.com



        Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 6:17 AM

        Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Same person as ScrumMaster and Project Manager at the same time



        Hi again Charles,

        thanks for really helpful input. I recognize your experiences and going through the responsibilities looking for countermeasures to balance out harmful parts sounds like a good way to go. I do think the main problem is the PM delivery responsibility that I fear will/can crash with the SM part of protecting the team. 
        We've realized that the planned scope that the PM committed to won't fit into the release, will the PM renegotiate the scope or try pushing more work into the sprints or order overtime? The answer will of course depend on the person and the situation but I doubt that the SM part of this person will come out as a winner all the time (nor would a separate SM but at least it would be more of a fair fight).

        BR

        Morgan



        On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 5:42 PM, Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSM PSM I <chuck-lists2@...> wrote:
         
        Morgan,

        Returning back to your original query, I'm assuming you're doing a bottom up transformation where you've attracted some attention from above.  You seem to indicate that your organization has several dysfunctions that might prevent Scrum from succeeding, but that you're trying to remove those one by one, including your original question.

        I will now summarize my coaching experiences related to the original topic of PM playing both the PM role and the SM role.
        • I do not believe that the mere presence of a PM means you are not doing Scrum, so I agree with you that "There is no PM role in Scrum" advice is unhelpful.
        • I have seen very few PM's that, with extensive coaching and/or training, are able to separate the PM and SM role and execute it well, but I have seen it done.  These appeared to be the success factors based on my experiences:
          • PM was already in line with "servant leadership" in their traditional PM role, so doing SM role was a fairly natural fit (so long as they learned to separate the roles)
          • Close in coaching by a highly Scrum knowledgeable person
          • The org did not expect the PM's to be command and control leaders, but instead expected them to be servant leader PM's.  In other words, when things went awry, they didn't hold the PM responsible for fixing them -- they just held them responsible for making sure the team fixed them in some way, and held the PM responsible for communicating progress to the wider org about resolving the obstacles.
        • I have seen more situations where PM's were bad, or in some cases, horrible SM's.  These appeared to be the failure factors based on my experiences.
          • PM's were command and control, and the org expected them to be so.  Said another way, when things went wrong, the org expected the PM to ensure it gets fixed, and held the PM's feet to the fire when it didn't.
          • PM's were not adequately trained on Scrum, so they attempted Scrum using the  Methodology Facade Pattern:
            • http://kenschwaber.wordpress.com/2010/10/20/methodology-facade-pattern/
            • I actually was brought in to clean up after a disaster like this.  When I started, Scrum was a "dirty word" with the VP.  Six months later, the VP was in love with our Scrum implementation and proud to show it off to other organizations.  Please note that while I was *one* of the success factors, IMO, there were many other factors(not related to me) that played a role in this org's success of ripping victory from the jaws of defeat.  One of the solutions was to make a developer on the team the SM instead of a former PM.  It just so happened that there was a developer on the team who a) was eventually interested in being SM and b) was one of those people that other people describe as a "natural born leader."
        I haven't had a lot of good experiences to draw upon with plain 'ol developers being SM's, except the one I already mentioned.  I've seen some dev team leads attempt it, but not long enough for me to fairly judge, and from what I did see, they didn't do it well.
         
        Another way to integrate the PM is by listing out the traditional PM duties in your org such that you can then apply a mitigating practice to each of the PM responsibilities that is harmful to Scrum.  I essentially used that approach with one of the PM's that was of the servant leader type.

        I honestly believe that close-in coaching by an experienced coach is the best solution for training a good SM, but that's also a highly self serving statement.  Maybe *you* are that coach right now, and rather than documenting an approach that will surely be executed poorly by others in the org, what I'd rather see is your org free you up from all of your responsibilities and allow you to coach several teams on Scrum for a few months.  Then, maybe, would be a good time to document some of the things that seem to work well and don't work well for a wider approach to Scrum in your org.

         
        -------
        Charles Bradley
        http://www.ScrumCrazy.com



        Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 1:46 AM

        Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Same person as ScrumMaster and Project Manager at the same time



        Hi Charles,

        this is not a big bang Scrum implementation. It's a slow bottom up agile movement that is happening. Scrum is one approach among several that teams are trying to implement. Management is beginning to accept this (not embracing it) and I've been asked to come up with recommendations for how to get this to work within current structures and processes. It's not really rocket science, there are documented recommendations from other implementations on how to wed their current process framework with Scrum but it needs some site specific adjustments. There are definitely a lot of problems with management buy-in among other things and no-one would be happier than me to have more experienced people working on this but that is not about to happen right now.

        This will be a long and slow change and I will have to work with the existing system in order help the organization. Management has never asked me to implement Scrum so the assignment is obviously not to implement Scrum. But if a team choses to implement Scrum (as much as they can) and management forces them to also have a PM, I try to support the teams and find ways for this to work out as well as possible.

        My question in this thread was very specific about having one person act as both SM and PM at the same time because to my experience it is a poor combination but I'm about to be run over on this particular matter. I'm not too keen on putting my name on a document with these recommendations but at the same time, I'm not willing to jeopardize my entire job here because of one setback (there will be many of those along the way). Thus, the dogmatic answers about "Scrum has no place for PM's" really adds no value.

        I'm not in a position to give the entire context so I tried to limit the question with specific givens and lift if out of context as much as possible. I'm beginning to realize that this forum doesn't work well for questions this way without everyone making a lot of assumptions about the context and my ability draw the initial context based conclusions needed. I don't think that this forum is the proper place for me to air these questions anymore. Since it's a very active and well visited mailing list, it probably boils down to my way of expressing myself and my expectations but the combo has given me more work explaining and defending than it was worth.

        BR

        Morgan



        On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 12:08 AM, Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSM PSM I <chuck-lists2@...> wrote:
         
        > I could probably help a single team and a single SM/PM to get this to work but
        > we're talking about institutionalizing this design in an organization with 100+
        > development projects. So it's not so much about one person being able to handle
        > this as it is about designing a system where the forces work with you instead of against.
         
        Morgan,

        I was going to chime in on this thread when your question was about a single team, but as the thread has progressed, others have elicited information from you, and you have offered, too, that you're trying to design a Scrum approach to an org that has 100+ development projects in a large organization.

        Based on this thread and others you have opined in, and with all due respect, you sound like you might be taking on something that is beyond your skill set.   What you are embarking on is an Organizational Agile/Scrum transformation, and again, based on the questions you are asking, it appears to me that you are not an organizational Agile coach.  To see more on how I define "Organizational Coach," see:

        I'm sure you have the best of intentions, but if your organization is asking you to define an enterprise wide approach, I'm afraid they are placing a very tall order.  IMO, only the people that have the Scrum Alliance CSC (or equivalent experience) can really be successful at something like this.  My recommendation would be to find someone like that and get some help.  Maybe I'm wrong -- maybe you have the equivalent of the CSC, but it's not apparent from your posts so far.  No, I'm not a CSC so this message is not self serving at all.  In fact, this message is against my interests because it might make others on the list unhappy as well.

        If getting a CSC equivalent to help you is not an option, you might want to encourage the org to start much smaller, say with just a few teams.  This kind of "create a solution for the entire company" kind of thing is pretty fraught with danger.  It reminds me very much of "Big Bang" software releases, and those are 'so 1993'(American slang for 'old school approach' that has been replaced with better approaches since then). 

        -------
        Charles Bradley
        http://www.ScrumCrazy.com



        Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 2:47 AM
        Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Same person as ScrumMaster and Project Manager at the same time



        Hi Yves,

        I'm currently in a similar situation. However, I showed the PM that he can get any progress information by looking at the Product and Sprint backlogs as well as at the story points estimation and team velocity. He can also assist (silently) to the daily if he wants too but never did.

        He also works closely with the PO and influences him with the priorities.

        So far, it has worked OK since the PM is so busy with other projects that the team can manage the development all by itself. Maybe the trick would be to have a PM that is so busy that he will not interfere with the team if the team delivers what they commit to :-)

        At the end, if the PM is not a control freak, it should work out. Unfortunately, in some companies, SCRUM is desired but they have a very hard time letting go the old ways.

        I could probably help a single team and a single SM/PM to get this to work but we're talking about institutionalizing this design in an organization with 100+ development projects. So it's not so much about one person being able to handle this as it is about designing a system where the forces work with you instead of against.

        BR

        Morgan

         

        --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Paul Hudson <phudson@...> wrote:
        >
        > Just go with it.
        >
        > The project manager role can be project manager of the project, handling,
        > for example, the (commercial part of the) relationship with customer.
        > Maybe there are status reports to organise, training to schedule etc -
        > stuff outside the software development.
        >
        > He/she delegates to the Scrum team (as a whole) for the software, though.
        > That person can then be the SM for that (if they're very careful about
        > what hat they're wearing, they must avoid trying to project manage the
        > Scrum team).
        >
        > It may be there's nothing significant to do outside the software
        > development. Still doesn't prevent you declaring that person as the PM for
        > that part.
        >
        > Now, if they're saying the Scrum team must have a project manager to direct
        > their activities, you do have a problem, but it's not clear from what you
        > say that that is the case...
        >
        > Paul
        >
        > On 22 March 2012 10:36, Morgan Ahlström <morgan.ahlstrom@...> wrote:
        >
        > > **

        > >
        > >
        > > Hi everyone,
        > >
        > > just wanted to hear some views and arguments (for and against) in the
        > > following scenario:
        > >
        > > - A client demands that every project has a project manager. This is not
        > > negotiable at this time.
        > >
        > > - For smaller projects they want to use the project manager as ScrumMaster
        > > as well. They do not want to have two full time persons for these roles.
        > > I'm trying to negotiating this but not really succeeding.
        > >
        > > - The PO cannot be project manager. The POs come from the business side
        > > and have no experience from leading IT-projects and they are also
        > > overworked as it is. This is not negotiable at this time.
        > >
        > > I have my own ideas about combining PM and SM roles but I would very much
        > > like to hear from the community, especially from those of you with real
        > > experiences from this combo. What would be your arguments for or against
        > > doing this? Please give me arguments to use against it, or, convince me
        > > that this is a good idea.
        > >
        > > My suggestion has been to use a team member as SM and let the PM be a
        > > separate person but I've not been able to sell this idea so far.
        > >
        > > BR
        > >
        > > Morgan
        > > --
        > > __________________________________
        > > Phone: +46 (0)72 726 33 03
        > > Twitter: @Morgsterious
        > > Blog: http://morgsterious.wordpress.com
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >




        --
        __________________________________
        Phone: +46 (0)72 726 33 03
        Twitter: @Morgsterious
        Blog: http://morgsterious.wordpress.com







        --
        __________________________________
        Phone: +46 (0)72 726 33 03
        Twitter: @Morgsterious
        Blog: http://morgsterious.wordpress.com







        --
        __________________________________
        Phone: +46 (0)72 726 33 03
        Twitter: @Morgsterious
        Blog: http://morgsterious.wordpress.com







        --
        __________________________________
        Phone: +46 (0)72 726 33 03
        Twitter: @Morgsterious
        Blog: http://morgsterious.wordpress.com
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