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Feature-Focused Daily Scrum - New Scrum Extension Proposed

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  • David Starr
    This thread is the community conversation thread for a proposal to extend Scrum, the Feature-Focused Daily Scrum. Read the proposed extension
    Message 1 of 19 , Mar 14 2:35 PM
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      This thread is the community conversation thread for a proposal to extend Scrum, the Feature-Focused Daily Scrum.


      Read the proposed extension here.


      As you may know, Scrum.org hosts the Scrum Guide, which defines the Scrum framework. Scrum Extensions are prescriptive guidance that goes beyond the Scrum framework to offer suggestions for how Scrum Teams can improve their practice within specific contexts.


      Scrum Extensions are authored and submitted by Scrum practitioners and published for consideration by the Scrum community in an open forum. Anyone may propose an extension.

      Please provide the extension author with feedback via this thread, or directly via email. All conversation is encouraged to occur in public and in the open.  We all want the vetting process for Scrum Extensions to be transparent.


      Read the Scrum Guide | Read about Scrum Extensions


      David Starr
      Scrum.org, Chief Craftsman - Improving the Profession of Software Development
      elegantcode.com | @elegantcoder  | scrum.org | @scrumdotorg


    • RonJeffries
      Hi David, ... This is a good idea, much like some teams already do. In my opinion, it is worthy of about two paragraphs, not multiple pages. The length and
      Message 2 of 19 , Mar 14 2:57 PM
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi David,

        On Mar 14, 2012, at 5:35 PM, David Starr wrote:

        lease provide the extension author with feedback via this thread, or directly via email. All conversation is encouraged to occur in public and in the open.  We all want the vetting process for Scrum Extensions to be transparent.

        This is a good idea, much like some teams already do. In my opinion, it is worthy of about two paragraphs, not multiple pages. The length and formality, to me, makes it both hard to understand and to seem like a bigger deal than it is.

        I really don't see why it needs to be a "Scrum Extension". It seems more to me like "Oh, by the way, here's one way people do this ..."

        I could, of course, be entirely wrong.

        Regards,

        Ron Jeffries
        www.XProgramming.com
        Impossible is not a fact. It is an opinion.  -- Muhammad Ali



      • David Starr
        Extensions are so much more than one person or even one company proclaiming a correct way to do something. Extensions distill the wisdom of the crowd. Other
        Message 3 of 19 , Mar 14 3:33 PM
        • 0 Attachment
          Extensions are so much more than one person or even one company proclaiming a correct way to do something. Extensions distill the wisdom of the crowd. Other differences include that they are free, positioned correctly, and accurate. They also come “packaged” with Scrum, rather than asking a user to track them down on their own. 

          Publishing a consistent and considered Body of Knowledge is critical to the next level of Scrum progression as we are far past early adopters. The Scrum Guide plus contextually appropriate extensions can work together to create a playbook for agile adoption in particular contexts. That's the end game vision, anyway. 

          People using Scrum need authoritative guidance that has been vetted as accurate and useful. This is it.

          David Starr
          Scrum.org, Chief Craftsman - Improving the Profession of Software Development
          elegantcode.com | @elegantcoder  | scrum.org | @scrumdotorg




          On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 3:57 PM, RonJeffries <ronjeffries@...> wrote:
           

          Hi David,


          On Mar 14, 2012, at 5:35 PM, David Starr wrote:

          lease provide the extension author with feedback via this thread, or directly via email. All conversation is encouraged to occur in public and in the open.  We all want the vetting process for Scrum Extensions to be transparent.

          This is a good idea, much like some teams already do. In my opinion, it is worthy of about two paragraphs, not multiple pages. The length and formality, to me, makes it both hard to understand and to seem like a bigger deal than it is.

          I really don't see why it needs to be a "Scrum Extension". It seems more to me like "Oh, by the way, here's one way people do this ..."

          I could, of course, be entirely wrong.

          Regards,

          Ron Jeffries
          www.XProgramming.com
          Impossible is not a fact. It is an opinion.  -- Muhammad Ali




        • Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSM PSM I
          I m with David on this.  I like the Scrum Extension mechanism, and I also like that the full context and considerations are published.   ... Charles Bradley
          Message 4 of 19 , Mar 14 3:59 PM
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            I'm with David on this.  I like the Scrum Extension mechanism, and I also like that the full context and considerations are published.
             
            -------
            Charles Bradley
            http://www.ScrumCrazy.com




            From: David Starr <david@...>
            To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 4:33 PM
            Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Feature-Focused Daily Scrum - New Scrum Extension Proposed



            Extensions are so much more than one person or even one company proclaiming a correct way to do something. Extensions distill the wisdom of the crowd. Other differences include that they are free, positioned correctly, and accurate. They also come “packaged” with Scrum, rather than asking a user to track them down on their own. 

            Publishing a consistent and considered Body of Knowledge is critical to the next level of Scrum progression as we are far past early adopters. The Scrum Guide plus contextually appropriate extensions can work together to create a playbook for agile adoption in particular contexts. That's the end game vision, anyway. 

            People using Scrum need authoritative guidance that has been vetted as accurate and useful. This is it.

            David Starr
            Scrum.org, Chief Craftsman - Improving the Profession of Software Development
            elegantcode.com | @elegantcoder  | scrum.org | @scrumdotorg




            On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 3:57 PM, RonJeffries <ronjeffries@...> wrote:
             
            Hi David,

            On Mar 14, 2012, at 5:35 PM, David Starr wrote:

            lease provide the extension author with feedback via this thread, or directly via email. All conversation is encouraged to occur in public and in the open.  We all want the vetting process for Scrum Extensions to be transparent.

            This is a good idea, much like some teams already do. In my opinion, it is worthy of about two paragraphs, not multiple pages. The length and formality, to me, makes it both hard to understand and to seem like a bigger deal than it is.

            I really don't see why it needs to be a "Scrum Extension". It seems more to me like "Oh, by the way, here's one way people do this ..."

            I could, of course, be entirely wrong.

            Regards,

            Ron Jeffries
            www.XProgramming.com
            Impossible is not a fact. It is an opinion.  -- Muhammad Ali








          • Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSM PSM I
            David, I like the extension, but I do have concerns. I m hypothetically putting myself in the Dev Team member role.  I ve noticed over recent Daily Scrums
            Message 5 of 19 , Mar 14 4:10 PM
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              David,

              I like the extension, but I do have concerns.

              I'm hypothetically putting myself in the Dev Team member role.  "I've noticed over recent Daily Scrums that the information in the 'Everything Else'(EE) section of the DS gets a lot more attention and scrutiny from the SM.  As such, I've decided that, so long as I can claim work on a feature, I will generally not add anything more to the EE section of the DS.

              I'm sure a similar argument can be made for the traditional last meeting/next meeting/obstacle format, but I think a Developer would be more likely to reveal the EE info while recounting a basically chronological account of yesterday vs. the "feature based" approach with the EE section separated out.

              It's sort of like the difference between asking someone directly if they committed a crime vs. having them "tell their story," then investigating inconsistencies in the story.
               
              -------
              Charles Bradley
              http://www.ScrumCrazy.com




              From: David Starr <david@...>
              To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 3:35 PM
              Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Feature-Focused Daily Scrum - New Scrum Extension Proposed



              This thread is the community conversation thread for a proposal to extend Scrum, the Feature-Focused Daily Scrum.


              As you may know, Scrum.org hosts the Scrum Guide, which defines the Scrum framework. Scrum Extensions are prescriptive guidance that goes beyond the Scrum framework to offer suggestions for how Scrum Teams can improve their practice within specific contexts.

              Scrum Extensions are authored and submitted by Scrum practitioners and published for consideration by the Scrum community in an open forum. Anyone may propose an extension.
              Please provide the extension author with feedback via this thread, or directly via email. All conversation is encouraged to occur in public and in the open.  We all want the vetting process for Scrum Extensions to be transparent.


              David Starr
              Scrum.org, Chief Craftsman - Improving the Profession of Software Development
              elegantcode.com | @elegantcoder  | scrum.org | @scrumdotorg






            • David Starr
              Good points, Charles. I want to let this thread thrive a bit longer before responding.... but I can t help myself :-) I think you are right that the EE section
              Message 6 of 19 , Mar 14 5:10 PM
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                Good points, Charles. I want to let this thread thrive a bit longer before responding.... but I can't help myself :-)

                I think you are right that the EE section could overshadow the feature discussion. In fact, we know that it will grow to fit its container, right? So, does that mean we should just make it really small and be strict on the timebox, or does it mean we shouldn't do it?  

                I do think every Daily Scrum should visit the features (the goal, the software, the progress, etc.) and any other items the team is working on. Whatever little framework one constructs for the Daily Scrum needs to provide a mechanism for uncovering hidden work while focusing the team as a group.

                Let's see what advice others may have.

                David Starr
                Scrum.org, Chief Craftsman - Improving the Profession of Software Development
                elegantcode.com | @elegantcoder  | scrum.org | @scrumdotorg




                On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 5:10 PM, Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSM PSM I <chuck-lists2@...> wrote:
                 

                David,

                I like the extension, but I do have concerns.

                I'm hypothetically putting myself in the Dev Team member role.  "I've noticed over recent Daily Scrums that the information in the 'Everything Else'(EE) section of the DS gets a lot more attention and scrutiny from the SM.  As such, I've decided that, so long as I can claim work on a feature, I will generally not add anything more to the EE section of the DS.

                I'm sure a similar argument can be made for the traditional last meeting/next meeting/obstacle format, but I think a Developer would be more likely to reveal the EE info while recounting a basically chronological account of yesterday vs. the "feature based" approach with the EE section separated out.

                It's sort of like the difference between asking someone directly if they committed a crime vs. having them "tell their story," then investigating inconsistencies in the story.
                 
                -------
                Charles Bradley
                http://www.ScrumCrazy.com



                Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 3:35 PM
                Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Feature-Focused Daily Scrum - New Scrum Extension Proposed



                This thread is the community conversation thread for a proposal to extend Scrum, the Feature-Focused Daily Scrum.


                As you may know, Scrum.org hosts the Scrum Guide, which defines the Scrum framework. Scrum Extensions are prescriptive guidance that goes beyond the Scrum framework to offer suggestions for how Scrum Teams can improve their practice within specific contexts.

                Scrum Extensions are authored and submitted by Scrum practitioners and published for consideration by the Scrum community in an open forum. Anyone may propose an extension.
                Please provide the extension author with feedback via this thread, or directly via email. All conversation is encouraged to occur in public and in the open.  We all want the vetting process for Scrum Extensions to be transparent.


                David Starr
                Scrum.org, Chief Craftsman - Improving the Profession of Software Development
                elegantcode.com | @elegantcoder  | scrum.org | @scrumdotorg







              • Peter Stevens
                Hi David, Yes, I see the value in that. And I think this extension mechanism is long overdue and a very healthy development. Still, this reads like a DoD
                Message 7 of 19 , Mar 14 5:28 PM
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                  Hi David,

                  Yes, I see the value in that. And I think this extension mechanism is long overdue and a very healthy development.

                  Still, this reads like a DoD change request and is almost as (in)comprehensible. I had to study it to figure out what the the extension really was.

                  The 2011 Scrum Guide is 17 pages and 525KB. This teensy-weeny extension is 4 pages and 274KB. Doesn't this seem a bit out of proportion?

                  It seems you could format it as an appendix to the Scrum Guide and get it down to one page, maybe two. Put an 'Approved Scrum Guide extension' logo or something on it to certify that is really is an extension of the Scrum Guide (once approved) and leave the document control process to PM-BOK.

                  Even cooler would be the ability to dynamically generate a Scrum Guide with the extensions of your choice. So if you replace the standard Daily Scrum with an alternative Daily Scrum you can still get Scrum Guide which includes your chosen alternative rather than the standard flow. This would be really useful for teams who want to a reference for their evolved version of Scrum.

                  Best,

                  Peter





                  On 14.03.12 18:33, David Starr wrote:  

                  Extensions are so much more than one person or even one company proclaiming a correct way to do something. Extensions distill the wisdom of the crowd. Other differences include that they are free, positioned correctly, and accurate. They also come “packaged” with Scrum, rather than asking a user to track them down on their own. 

                  Publishing a consistent and considered Body of Knowledge is critical to the next level of Scrum progression as we are far past early adopters. The Scrum Guide plus contextually appropriate extensions can work together to create a playbook for agile adoption in particular contexts. That's the end game vision, anyway. 


                  People using Scrum need authoritative guidance that has been vetted as accurate and useful. This is it.

                  David Starr
                  Scrum.org, Chief Craftsman - Improving the Profession of Software Development
                  elegantcode.com | @elegantcoder  | scrum.org | @scrumdotorg




                  On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 3:57 PM, RonJeffries <ronjeffries@...> wrote:
                   

                  Hi David,


                  On Mar 14, 2012, at 5:35 PM, David Starr wrote:

                  lease provide the extension author with feedback via this thread, or directly via email. All conversation is encouraged to occur in public and in the open.  We all want the vetting process for Scrum Extensions to be transparent.

                  This is a good idea, much like some teams already do. In my opinion, it is worthy of about two paragraphs, not multiple pages. The length and formality, to me, makes it both hard to understand and to seem like a bigger deal than it is.

                  I really don't see why it needs to be a "Scrum Extension". It seems more to me like "Oh, by the way, here's one way people do this ..."

                  I could, of course, be entirely wrong.

                  Regards,

                  Ron Jeffries
                  www.XProgramming.com
                  Impossible is not a fact. It is an opinion.  -- Muhammad Ali






                  -- 
                  Peter Stevens, Scrum Trainer & Coach
                  blog:          http://scrum-breakfast.com
                  
                • Ram Srinivasan
                  I think this is a good idea. I have seen people talk about splitting stories of almost equal sizes and continuous one piece flow and this extension
                  Message 8 of 19 , Mar 14 5:49 PM
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                    I think this is a good idea. I have seen people talk about "splitting stories of almost equal sizes" and "continuous one piece flow" and this extension probably fits well along with that. Some time back I read that Johanna Rothman (if I believe I am right ) modified the three stand-up  questions to 

                    1. What features did we complete yesterday ?
                    2. What features are we completing today ?
                    3. Are there any impediments to completing today's features ?

                    and probably we can discuss EE as 

                    4. What else is happening for you that we haven’t discussed?

                    I am not sure if we need to timebox features ( to 10 minutes )and EE (to 5 minutes). Since the daily scrum itself is time-boxed, I think it might be better if we had a question which can bring out EE in the stand-up.


                    Ram Srinivasan, PMP, CSM, CSPO, ACP, CSP
                    T:+1-848-248-4964
                    www.ramvasan.com

                    Twitter LinkedIn
                    Contact me: Google Talk vasan.ram Skype ramvasan
                    TwitterLatest tweet: Product Backlog grooming may become a Generally Accepted Scrum Practice (GASP) by Mike Cohn - http://t.co/kuDtDakl Follow @ramvasan Reply Retweet   21:18 Mar-13


                    On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 5:40 AM, David Starr <david@...> wrote:
                     

                    Good points, Charles. I want to let this thread thrive a bit longer before responding.... but I can't help myself :-)


                    I think you are right that the EE section could overshadow the feature discussion. In fact, we know that it will grow to fit its container, right? So, does that mean we should just make it really small and be strict on the timebox, or does it mean we shouldn't do it?  

                    I do think every Daily Scrum should visit the features (the goal, the software, the progress, etc.) and any other items the team is working on. Whatever little framework one constructs for the Daily Scrum needs to provide a mechanism for uncovering hidden work while focusing the team as a group.

                    Let's see what advice others may have.

                    David Starr
                    Scrum.org, Chief Craftsman - Improving the Profession of Software Development
                    elegantcode.com | @elegantcoder  | scrum.org | @scrumdotorg




                    On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 5:10 PM, Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSM PSM I <chuck-lists2@...> wrote:
                     

                    David,

                    I like the extension, but I do have concerns.

                    I'm hypothetically putting myself in the Dev Team member role.  "I've noticed over recent Daily Scrums that the information in the 'Everything Else'(EE) section of the DS gets a lot more attention and scrutiny from the SM.  As such, I've decided that, so long as I can claim work on a feature, I will generally not add anything more to the EE section of the DS.

                    I'm sure a similar argument can be made for the traditional last meeting/next meeting/obstacle format, but I think a Developer would be more likely to reveal the EE info while recounting a basically chronological account of yesterday vs. the "feature based" approach with the EE section separated out.

                    It's sort of like the difference between asking someone directly if they committed a crime vs. having them "tell their story," then investigating inconsistencies in the story.
                     
                    -------
                    Charles Bradley
                    http://www.ScrumCrazy.com



                    Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 3:35 PM
                    Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Feature-Focused Daily Scrum - New Scrum Extension Proposed



                    This thread is the community conversation thread for a proposal to extend Scrum, the Feature-Focused Daily Scrum.


                    As you may know, Scrum.org hosts the Scrum Guide, which defines the Scrum framework. Scrum Extensions are prescriptive guidance that goes beyond the Scrum framework to offer suggestions for how Scrum Teams can improve their practice within specific contexts.

                    Scrum Extensions are authored and submitted by Scrum practitioners and published for consideration by the Scrum community in an open forum. Anyone may propose an extension.
                    Please provide the extension author with feedback via this thread, or directly via email. All conversation is encouraged to occur in public and in the open.  We all want the vetting process for Scrum Extensions to be transparent.


                    David Starr
                    Scrum.org, Chief Craftsman - Improving the Profession of Software Development
                    elegantcode.com | @elegantcoder  | scrum.org | @scrumdotorg








                  • Ram Srinivasan
                    A wiki might be better to document the proposed extension ? This can encourage contributions from others who are not on this mailing list. Ram ... A wiki
                    Message 9 of 19 , Mar 14 5:56 PM
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                      A wiki might be better to document the  proposed extension ? This can encourage contributions from others who are not on this mailing list. 


                      Ram


                      On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 5:58 AM, Peter Stevens <peterstev@...> wrote:
                       

                      Hi David,

                      Yes, I see the value in that. And I think this extension mechanism is long overdue and a very healthy development.

                      Still, this reads like a DoD change request and is almost as (in)comprehensible. I had to study it to figure out what the the extension really was.

                      The 2011 Scrum Guide is 17 pages and 525KB. This teensy-weeny extension is 4 pages and 274KB. Doesn't this seem a bit out of proportion?

                      It seems you could format it as an appendix to the Scrum Guide and get it down to one page, maybe two. Put an 'Approved Scrum Guide extension' logo or something on it to certify that is really is an extension of the Scrum Guide (once approved) and leave the document control process to PM-BOK.

                      Even cooler would be the ability to dynamically generate a Scrum Guide with the extensions of your choice. So if you replace the standard Daily Scrum with an alternative Daily Scrum you can still get Scrum Guide which includes your chosen alternative rather than the standard flow. This would be really useful for teams who want to a reference for their evolved version of Scrum.

                      Best,

                      Peter







                      On 14.03.12 18:33, David Starr wrote:
                       

                      Extensions are so much more than one person or even one company proclaiming a correct way to do something. Extensions distill the wisdom of the crowd. Other differences include that they are free, positioned correctly, and accurate. They also come “packaged” with Scrum, rather than asking a user to track them down on their own. 

                      Publishing a consistent and considered Body of Knowledge is critical to the next level of Scrum progression as we are far past early adopters. The Scrum Guide plus contextually appropriate extensions can work together to create a playbook for agile adoption in particular contexts. That's the end game vision, anyway. 


                      People using Scrum need authoritative guidance that has been vetted as accurate and useful. This is it.

                      David Starr
                      Scrum.org, Chief Craftsman - Improving the Profession of Software Development
                      elegantcode.com | @elegantcoder  | scrum.org | @scrumdotorg




                      On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 3:57 PM, RonJeffries <ronjeffries@...> wrote:
                       

                      Hi David,


                      On Mar 14, 2012, at 5:35 PM, David Starr wrote:

                      lease provide the extension author with feedback via this thread, or directly via email. All conversation is encouraged to occur in public and in the open.  We all want the vetting process for Scrum Extensions to be transparent.

                      This is a good idea, much like some teams already do. In my opinion, it is worthy of about two paragraphs, not multiple pages. The length and formality, to me, makes it both hard to understand and to seem like a bigger deal than it is.

                      I really don't see why it needs to be a "Scrum Extension". It seems more to me like "Oh, by the way, here's one way people do this ..."

                      I could, of course, be entirely wrong.

                      Regards,

                      Ron Jeffries
                      www.XProgramming.com
                      Impossible is not a fact. It is an opinion.  -- Muhammad Ali






                      -- 
                      Peter Stevens, Scrum Trainer & Coach
                      blog:          http://scrum-breakfast.com
                      


                    • Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSM PSM I
                      David, I apologize if I wasn t clear before, and I think I was unclear.  My point is not that the Features and Goals(F&G) section would be overshadowed by the
                      Message 10 of 19 , Mar 14 7:10 PM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        David,

                        I apologize if I wasn't clear before, and I think I was unclear.  My point is not that the Features and Goals(F&G) section would be overshadowed by the EE section.  Let me try again.

                        In summary, I think it is possible, with some teams, that the transparency of the current DS content could be reduced by using the new extension, mostly in the EE content part of the meeting.  Further, I think there is often really good "empirical data" (inappropriate work, interesting tips from fellow team members about stuff that is not *directly* related to a PBI, mentioning a previously solved problem not directly related to a PBI, etc) on which to "inspect and adapt" in the EE content.  Said another way, I think some teams might be losing transparency on things that can be improved, in large part because recalling one's day chronologically (the current DS approach) vs. recalling/sorting the content into categories off the cuff(the extension appraoch) might cause some people to forget the EE content.

                        If one breaks the current DS content conceptually into 2 category(not time-wise, but content wise), one with F&G, and one with EE.  The extension will probably increase the transparency on the F&G side, but I think it could decrease transparency on the EE side because developers have to recall and/or come up with the material in different ways.

                        In the current DS (what is referred to as the "1-2-3 technique" in the extension), a team member simply has to recall events in rough chronological order, something that is pretty easy for humans to do.  I consider it a "high level bullet points" of what I did yesterday and what I plan to do today.

                        In the extended DS, a team member has to remember to filter out EE in the F&G part (something that is not terribly hard for humans to do), and has something to use as a "memory peg (the PBI)" for what they need to say.  This is the huge benefit of the extension, IMO, focusing on the F&G part with a memory peg.

                        During the EE part the human then has to recall the EE(remembering to leave out the F&G part which has already been done) from yesterday.  As such, remembering this chronologically is one strategy, but again, you have to subtract F&G content from your yesterday.  Then, for your "today", you have to again recall your plan, subtract the F&G content, and then speak that part.  I guess people might fall into a habit of having content ready for both and separate, but I doubt it.

                        Further, the SM, during the EE part, has to investigate to draw out interesting EE content, where in the traditional DS it comes out naturally as part of a chronological recall, something humans do often.  I guess I'm saying for some people it might be much easier to do a full chronological recall than to add and subtract content categories(F&G vs. EE) on the fly in a meeting.

                        I'm not saying I dislike the extension/pattern. What I am suggesting is that this possible risk of loss of information in the EE part should be documented in the extension as part of the context, somehow, IMHO.

                        -------
                        Charles Bradley
                        http://www.ScrumCrazy.com




                        From: David Starr <david@...>
                        To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 6:10 PM
                        Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Feature-Focused Daily Scrum - New Scrum Extension Proposed



                        Good points, Charles. I want to let this thread thrive a bit longer before responding.... but I can't help myself :-)

                        I think you are right that the EE section could overshadow the feature discussion. In fact, we know that it will grow to fit its container, right? So, does that mean we should just make it really small and be strict on the timebox, or does it mean we shouldn't do it?  

                        I do think every Daily Scrum should visit the features (the goal, the software, the progress, etc.) and any other items the team is working on. Whatever little framework one constructs for the Daily Scrum needs to provide a mechanism for uncovering hidden work while focusing the team as a group.

                        Let's see what advice others may have.

                        David Starr
                        Scrum.org, Chief Craftsman - Improving the Profession of Software Development
                        elegantcode.com | @elegantcoder  | scrum.org | @scrumdotorg




                        On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 5:10 PM, Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSM PSM I <chuck-lists2@...> wrote:
                         
                        David,

                        I like the extension, but I do have concerns.

                        I'm hypothetically putting myself in the Dev Team member role.  "I've noticed over recent Daily Scrums that the information in the 'Everything Else'(EE) section of the DS gets a lot more attention and scrutiny from the SM.  As such, I've decided that, so long as I can claim work on a feature, I will generally not add anything more to the EE section of the DS.

                        I'm sure a similar argument can be made for the traditional last meeting/next meeting/obstacle format, but I think a Developer would be more likely to reveal the EE info while recounting a basically chronological account of yesterday vs. the "feature based" approach with the EE section separated out.

                        It's sort of like the difference between asking someone directly if they committed a crime vs. having them "tell their story," then investigating inconsistencies in the story.
                         
                        -------
                        Charles Bradley
                        http://www.ScrumCrazy.com



                        Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 3:35 PM
                        Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Feature-Focused Daily Scrum - New Scrum Extension Proposed



                        This thread is the community conversation thread for a proposal to extend Scrum, the Feature-Focused Daily Scrum.


                        As you may know, Scrum.org hosts the Scrum Guide, which defines the Scrum framework. Scrum Extensions are prescriptive guidance that goes beyond the Scrum framework to offer suggestions for how Scrum Teams can improve their practice within specific contexts.

                        Scrum Extensions are authored and submitted by Scrum practitioners and published for consideration by the Scrum community in an open forum. Anyone may propose an extension.
                        Please provide the extension author with feedback via this thread, or directly via email. All conversation is encouraged to occur in public and in the open.  We all want the vetting process for Scrum Extensions to be transparent.


                        David Starr
                        Scrum.org, Chief Craftsman - Improving the Profession of Software Development
                        elegantcode.com | @elegantcoder  | scrum.org | @scrumdotorg











                      • Chuck B
                        ... And I m saying that some people might also intentionally leave stuff out of the EE part of the extension DS because they expect scrutiny and it s easier to
                        Message 11 of 19 , Mar 14 7:24 PM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          ... And I'm saying that some people might also intentionally leave stuff out of the EE part of the extension DS because they expect scrutiny and it's easier to hide EE content in the extension DS than it is in the current DS, especially after they realize one of the purposes of the EE part is for the facilitator to surface what *might be* inappropriate work.  

                          Sent from my iPhone

                          On Mar 14, 2012, at 8:10 PM, Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSM PSM I <chuck-lists2@...> wrote:

                          David,

                          I apologize if I wasn't clear before, and I think I was unclear.  My point is not that the Features and Goals(F&G) section would be overshadowed by the EE section.  Let me try again.

                          In summary, I think it is possible, with some teams, that the transparency of the current DS content could be reduced by using the new extension, mostly in the EE content part of the meeting.  Further, I think there is often really good "empirical data" (inappropriate work, interesting tips from fellow team members about stuff that is not *directly* related to a PBI, mentioning a previously solved problem not directly related to a PBI, etc) on which to "inspect and adapt" in the EE content.  Said another way, I think some teams might be losing transparency on things that can be improved, in large part because recalling one's day chronologically (the current DS approach) vs. recalling/sorting the content into categories off the cuff(the extension appraoch) might cause some people to forget the EE content.

                          If one breaks the current DS content conceptually into 2 category(not time-wise, but content wise), one with F&G, and one with EE.  The extension will probably increase the transparency on the F&G side, but I think it could decrease transparency on the EE side because developers have to recall and/or come up with the material in different ways.

                          In the current DS (what is referred to as the "1-2-3 technique" in the extension), a team member simply has to recall events in rough chronological order, something that is pretty easy for humans to do.  I consider it a "high level bullet points" of what I did yesterday and what I plan to do today.

                          In the extended DS, a team member has to remember to filter out EE in the F&G part (something that is not terribly hard for humans to do), and has something to use as a "memory peg (the PBI)" for what they need to say.  This is the huge benefit of the extension, IMO, focusing on the F&G part with a memory peg.

                          During the EE part the human then has to recall the EE(remembering to leave out the F&G part which has already been done) from yesterday.  As such, remembering this chronologically is one strategy, but again, you have to subtract F&G content from your yesterday.  Then, for your "today", you have to again recall your plan, subtract the F&G content, and then speak that part.  I guess people might fall into a habit of having content ready for both and separate, but I doubt it.

                          Further, the SM, during the EE part, has to investigate to draw out interesting EE content, where in the traditional DS it comes out naturally as part of a chronological recall, something humans do often.  I guess I'm saying for some people it might be much easier to do a full chronological recall than to add and subtract content categories(F&G vs. EE) on the fly in a meeting.

                          I'm not saying I dislike the extension/pattern. What I am suggesting is that this possible risk of loss of information in the EE part should be documented in the extension as part of the context, somehow, IMHO.

                          -------
                          Charles Bradley
                          http://www.ScrumCrazy.com




                          From: David Starr <david@...>
                          To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 6:10 PM
                          Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Feature-Focused Daily Scrum - New Scrum Extension Proposed



                          Good points, Charles. I want to let this thread thrive a bit longer before responding.... but I can't help myself :-)

                          I think you are right that the EE section could overshadow the feature discussion. In fact, we know that it will grow to fit its container, right? So, does that mean we should just make it really small and be strict on the timebox, or does it mean we shouldn't do it?  

                          I do think every Daily Scrum should visit the features (the goal, the software, the progress, etc.) and any other items the team is working on. Whatever little framework one constructs for the Daily Scrum needs to provide a mechanism for uncovering hidden work while focusing the team as a group.

                          Let's see what advice others may have.

                          David Starr
                          Scrum.org, Chief Craftsman - Improving the Profession of Software Development
                          elegantcode.com | @elegantcoder  | scrum.org | @scrumdotorg




                          On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 5:10 PM, Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSM PSM I <chuck-lists2@...> wrote:
                           
                          David,

                          I like the extension, but I do have concerns.

                          I'm hypothetically putting myself in the Dev Team member role.  "I've noticed over recent Daily Scrums that the information in the 'Everything Else'(EE) section of the DS gets a lot more attention and scrutiny from the SM.  As such, I've decided that, so long as I can claim work on a feature, I will generally not add anything more to the EE section of the DS.

                          I'm sure a similar argument can be made for the traditional last meeting/next meeting/obstacle format, but I think a Developer would be more likely to reveal the EE info while recounting a basically chronological account of yesterday vs. the "feature based" approach with the EE section separated out.

                          It's sort of like the difference between asking someone directly if they committed a crime vs. having them "tell their story," then investigating inconsistencies in the story.
                           
                          -------
                          Charles Bradley
                          http://www.ScrumCrazy.com



                          Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 3:35 PM
                          Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Feature-Focused Daily Scrum - New Scrum Extension Proposed



                          This thread is the community conversation thread for a proposal to extend Scrum, the Feature-Focused Daily Scrum.


                          As you may know, Scrum.org hosts the Scrum Guide, which defines the Scrum framework. Scrum Extensions are prescriptive guidance that goes beyond the Scrum framework to offer suggestions for how Scrum Teams can improve their practice within specific contexts.

                          Scrum Extensions are authored and submitted by Scrum practitioners and published for consideration by the Scrum community in an open forum. Anyone may propose an extension.
                          Please provide the extension author with feedback via this thread, or directly via email. All conversation is encouraged to occur in public and in the open.  We all want the vetting process for Scrum Extensions to be transparent.


                          David Starr
                          Scrum.org, Chief Craftsman - Improving the Profession of Software Development
                          elegantcode.com | @elegantcoder  | scrum.org | @scrumdotorg











                        • kschwaber
                          I hope that we get several extensions around the daily scrum which cause it to be more of an inspect/adapt moment. Ken
                          Message 12 of 19 , Mar 15 8:34 AM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I hope that we get several extensions around the daily scrum which cause it to be more of an inspect/adapt moment.
                            Ken

                            --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Ram Srinivasan <vasan.ram@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I think this is a good idea. I have seen people talk about "splitting
                            > stories of almost equal sizes" and "continuous one piece flow" and this
                            > extension probably fits well along with that. Some time back I read that
                            > Johanna Rothman (if I believe I am right ) modified the three stand-up
                            > questions to
                            >
                            > 1. What features did we complete yesterday ?
                            > 2. What features are we completing today ?
                            > 3. Are there any impediments to completing today's features ?
                            >
                            > and probably we can discuss EE as
                            >
                            > 4. What else is happening for you that we haven't discussed?
                            >
                            > I am not sure if we need to timebox features ( to 10 minutes )and EE (to 5
                            > minutes). Since the daily scrum itself is time-boxed, I think it might be
                            > better if we had a question which can bring out EE in the stand-up.
                            >
                            >
                            > *Ram Srinivasan, PMP, CSM, CSPO, ACP, CSP*
                            > T:+1-848-248-4964
                            > www.ramvasan.com
                            > [image: Twitter] <https://twitter.com/#!/ramvasan> [image:
                            > LinkedIn]<http://linkedin.com/in/ramvasan>
                            > Contact me: [image: Google Talk] vasan.ram [image: Skype] ramvasan
                            > [image: Twitter] <http://twitter.com/ramvasan>Latest tweet: Product Backlog
                            > grooming may become a Generally Accepted Scrum Practice (GASP) by Mike Cohn
                            > - http://t.co/kuDtDakl Follow @ramvasan <http://twitter.com/ramvasan> Reply
                            > <http://twitter.com/?status=@ramvasan%20&in_reply_to_status_id=179594781884817400&in_reply_to=ramvasan>
                            > Retweet
                            > <http://twitter.com/?status=RT%20%40ramvasan%3A%20Product%20Backlog%20grooming%20may%20become%20a%20Generally%20Accepted%20Scrum%20Practice%20(GASP)%20by%20Mike%20Cohn%20-%20http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FkuDtDakl>
                            > 21:18 Mar-13<http://twitter.com/ramvasan/statuses/179594781884817409>
                            >
                            >
                            > On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 5:40 AM, David Starr <david@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > **
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Good points, Charles. I want to let this thread thrive a bit longer before
                            > > responding.... but I can't help myself :-)
                            > >
                            > > I think you are right that the EE section could overshadow the feature
                            > > discussion. In fact, we know that it will grow to fit its container, right?
                            > > So, does that mean we should just make it really small and be strict on the
                            > > timebox, or does it mean we shouldn't do it?
                            > >
                            > > I do think every Daily Scrum should visit the features (the goal, the
                            > > software, the progress, etc.) and any other items the team is working on.
                            > > Whatever little framework one constructs for the Daily Scrum needs to
                            > > provide a mechanism for uncovering hidden work while focusing the team as a
                            > > group.
                            > >
                            > > Let's see what advice others may have.
                            > >
                            > > *David Starr
                            > > **Scrum.org, Chief Craftsman* - *Improving the Profession of Software
                            > > Development*
                            > > elegantcode.com | @elegantcoder | scrum.org | @scrumdotorg
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 5:10 PM, Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSM PSM I <
                            > > chuck-lists2@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > >> **
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >> David,
                            > >>
                            > >> I like the extension, but I do have concerns.
                            > >>
                            > >> I'm hypothetically putting myself in the Dev Team member role. "I've
                            > >> noticed over recent Daily Scrums that the information in the 'Everything
                            > >> Else'(EE) section of the DS gets a lot more attention and scrutiny from the
                            > >> SM. As such, I've decided that, so long as I can claim work on a feature,
                            > >> I will generally not add anything more to the EE section of the DS.
                            > >>
                            > >> I'm sure a similar argument can be made for the traditional last
                            > >> meeting/next meeting/obstacle format, but I think a Developer would be more
                            > >> likely to reveal the EE info while recounting a basically chronological
                            > >> account of yesterday vs. the "feature based" approach with the EE section
                            > >> separated out.
                            > >>
                            > >> It's sort of like the difference between asking someone directly if they
                            > >> committed a crime vs. having them "tell their story," then investigating
                            > >> inconsistencies in the story.
                            > >>
                            > >> -------
                            > >> Charles Bradley
                            > >> http://www.ScrumCrazy.com
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >> ------------------------------
                            > >> *From:* David Starr <david@...>
                            > >> *To:* scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                            > >> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 14, 2012 3:35 PM
                            > >> *Subject:* [scrumdevelopment] Feature-Focused Daily Scrum - New Scrum
                            > >> Extension Proposed
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >> This thread is the community conversation thread for a proposal to extend
                            > >> Scrum, the Feature-Focused Daily Scrum.
                            > >>
                            > >> Read the proposed extension here<http://www.scrum.org/storage/scrumguides/extension/Feature-Focused%20Daily%20Scrum.pdf>
                            > >> .
                            > >>
                            > >> As you may know, Scrum.org hosts the Scrum Guide, which defines the
                            > >> Scrum framework. Scrum Extensions are prescriptive guidance that goes
                            > >> beyond the Scrum framework to offer suggestions for how Scrum Teams can
                            > >> improve their practice within specific contexts.
                            > >>
                            > >> Scrum Extensions are authored and submitted by Scrum practitioners and
                            > >> published for consideration by the Scrum community in an open forum. Anyone
                            > >> may propose an extension.
                            > >> Please provide the extension author with feedback via this thread, or
                            > >> directly via email. All conversation is encouraged to occur in public and
                            > >> in the open. We all want the vetting process for Scrum Extensions to be
                            > >> transparent.
                            > >>
                            > >> Read the Scrum Guide <http://www.scrum.org/scrumguides/> | Read about
                            > >> Scrum Extensions<http://www.scrum.org/scrum-extensions/?SSScrollPosition=56>
                            > >>
                            > >> *David Starr
                            > >> **Scrum.org, Chief Craftsman* - *Improving the Profession of Software
                            > >> Development*
                            > >> elegantcode.com | @elegantcoder | scrum.org | @scrumdotorg
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                          • Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSM PSM I
                            Ram s suggestions alleviate some of my concerns on about this extension.   Maybe his strategy could be documented as an alternate way to execute the
                            Message 13 of 19 , Mar 15 8:35 AM
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Ram's suggestions alleviate some of my concerns on about this extension.   Maybe his strategy could be documented as an alternate way to execute the extension, though I realize it loses some of the original intent of the extension.
                               
                              -------
                              Charles Bradley
                              http://www.ScrumCrazy.com




                              From: Ram Srinivasan <vasan.ram@...>
                              To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 6:49 PM
                              Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Feature-Focused Daily Scrum - New Scrum Extension Proposed



                              I think this is a good idea. I have seen people talk about "splitting stories of almost equal sizes" and "continuous one piece flow" and this extension probably fits well along with that. Some time back I read that Johanna Rothman (if I believe I am right ) modified the three stand-up  questions to 

                              1. What features did we complete yesterday ?
                              2. What features are we completing today ?
                              3. Are there any impediments to completing today's features ?

                              and probably we can discuss EE as 

                              4. What else is happening for you that we haven’t discussed?

                              I am not sure if we need to timebox features ( to 10 minutes )and EE (to 5 minutes). Since the daily scrum itself is time-boxed, I think it might be better if we had a question which can bring out EE in the stand-up.


                              Ram Srinivasan, PMP, CSM, CSPO, ACP, CSP
                              T:+1-848-248-4964
                              www.ramvasan.com
                              Twitter LinkedIn
                              Contact me: Google Talk vasan.ram Skype ramvasan
                              TwitterLatest tweet: Product Backlog grooming may become a Generally Accepted Scrum Practice (GASP) by Mike Cohn - http://t.co/kuDtDakl Follow @ramvasan Reply Retweet   21:18 Mar-13


                              On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 5:40 AM, David Starr <david@...> wrote:
                               
                              Good points, Charles. I want to let this thread thrive a bit longer before responding.... but I can't help myself :-)

                              I think you are right that the EE section could overshadow the feature discussion. In fact, we know that it will grow to fit its container, right? So, does that mean we should just make it really small and be strict on the timebox, or does it mean we shouldn't do it?  

                              I do think every Daily Scrum should visit the features (the goal, the software, the progress, etc.) and any other items the team is working on. Whatever little framework one constructs for the Daily Scrum needs to provide a mechanism for uncovering hidden work while focusing the team as a group.

                              Let's see what advice others may have.

                              David Starr
                              Scrum.org, Chief Craftsman - Improving the Profession of Software Development
                              elegantcode.com | @elegantcoder  | scrum.org | @scrumdotorg




                              On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 5:10 PM, Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSM PSM I <chuck-lists2@...> wrote:
                               
                              David,

                              I like the extension, but I do have concerns.

                              I'm hypothetically putting myself in the Dev Team member role.  "I've noticed over recent Daily Scrums that the information in the 'Everything Else'(EE) section of the DS gets a lot more attention and scrutiny from the SM.  As such, I've decided that, so long as I can claim work on a feature, I will generally not add anything more to the EE section of the DS.

                              I'm sure a similar argument can be made for the traditional last meeting/next meeting/obstacle format, but I think a Developer would be more likely to reveal the EE info while recounting a basically chronological account of yesterday vs. the "feature based" approach with the EE section separated out.

                              It's sort of like the difference between asking someone directly if they committed a crime vs. having them "tell their story," then investigating inconsistencies in the story.
                               
                              -------
                              Charles Bradley
                              http://www.ScrumCrazy.com



                              Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 3:35 PM
                              Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Feature-Focused Daily Scrum - New Scrum Extension Proposed



                              This thread is the community conversation thread for a proposal to extend Scrum, the Feature-Focused Daily Scrum.


                              As you may know, Scrum.org hosts the Scrum Guide, which defines the Scrum framework. Scrum Extensions are prescriptive guidance that goes beyond the Scrum framework to offer suggestions for how Scrum Teams can improve their practice within specific contexts.

                              Scrum Extensions are authored and submitted by Scrum practitioners and published for consideration by the Scrum community in an open forum. Anyone may propose an extension.
                              Please provide the extension author with feedback via this thread, or directly via email. All conversation is encouraged to occur in public and in the open.  We all want the vetting process for Scrum Extensions to be transparent.


                              David Starr
                              Scrum.org, Chief Craftsman - Improving the Profession of Software Development
                              elegantcode.com | @elegantcoder  | scrum.org | @scrumdotorg












                            • Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSM PSM I
                              A bit off topic, but here s an extension I use a lot for the DS, and I think it improves inspect/adapt.  (Not my idea, btw) Take the traditional
                              Message 14 of 19 , Mar 15 8:40 AM
                              • 0 Attachment
                                A bit off topic, but here's an "extension" I use a lot for the DS, and I think it improves inspect/adapt.  (Not my idea, btw)

                                Take the traditional implementation of the current DS where everyone in turn gives their 1-2-3 answers.  When that is done, if there is time left in the timebox (and there often is in my coaching experiences -- because I make sure my teams understand what "time-box" actually means), I say "Anyone have 2nds?"  (2nds, as in "more to add") What I find is often, by listening to others, people who have already spoken have some quick 2nd thoughts on what others have said that will help the team inspect and adapt.  This extension has a risk of downside if the "2nds" turn into inappropriate content for the DS -- but that's also true during the 1-2-3 part as well.
                                 
                                -------
                                Charles Bradley
                                http://www.ScrumCrazy.com




                                From: kschwaber <ken.schwaber@...>
                                To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 9:34 AM
                                Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Feature-Focused Daily Scrum - New Scrum Extension Proposed

                                I hope that we get several extensions around the daily scrum which cause it to be more of an inspect/adapt moment.
                                Ken

                                --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Ram Srinivasan <vasan.ram@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I think this is a good idea. I have seen people talk about "splitting
                                > stories of almost equal sizes" and "continuous one piece flow" and this
                                > extension probably fits well along with that. Some time back I read that
                                > Johanna Rothman (if I believe I am right ) modified the three stand-up
                                >  questions to
                                >
                                > 1. What features did we complete yesterday ?
                                > 2. What features are we completing today ?
                                > 3. Are there any impediments to completing today's features ?
                                >
                                > and probably we can discuss EE as
                                >
                                > 4. What else is happening for you that we haven't discussed?
                                >
                                > I am not sure if we need to timebox features ( to 10 minutes )and EE (to 5
                                > minutes). Since the daily scrum itself is time-boxed, I think it might be
                                > better if we had a question which can bring out EE in the stand-up.
                                >
                                >
                                > *Ram Srinivasan, PMP, CSM, CSPO, ACP, CSP*
                                > T:+1-848-248-4964
                                > www.ramvasan.com
                                > [image: Twitter] <https://twitter.com/#!/ramvasan> [image:
                                > LinkedIn]<http://linkedin.com/in/ramvasan>
                                > Contact me: [image: Google Talk] vasan.ram [image: Skype] ramvasan
                                > [image: Twitter] <http://twitter.com/ramvasan>Latest tweet: Product Backlog
                                > grooming may become a Generally Accepted Scrum Practice (GASP) by Mike Cohn
                                > - http://t.co/kuDtDakl Follow @ramvasan <http://twitter.com/ramvasan> Reply
                                > <http://twitter.com/?status=@ramvasan%20&in_reply_to_status_id=179594781884817400&in_reply_to=ramvasan>
                                > Retweet
                                > <http://twitter.com/?status=RT%20%40ramvasan%3A%20Product%20Backlog%20grooming%20may%20become%20a%20Generally%20Accepted%20Scrum%20Practice%20(GASP)%20by%20Mike%20Cohn%20-%20http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FkuDtDakl>
                                >  21:18 Mar-13<http://twitter.com/ramvasan/statuses/179594781884817409>
                                >
                                >
                                > On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 5:40 AM, David Starr <david@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > > **
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Good points, Charles. I want to let this thread thrive a bit longer before
                                > > responding.... but I can't help myself :-)
                                > >
                                > > I think you are right that the EE section could overshadow the feature
                                > > discussion. In fact, we know that it will grow to fit its container, right?
                                > > So, does that mean we should just make it really small and be strict on the
                                > > timebox, or does it mean we shouldn't do it?
                                > >
                                > > I do think every Daily Scrum should visit the features (the goal, the
                                > > software, the progress, etc.) and any other items the team is working on.
                                > > Whatever little framework one constructs for the Daily Scrum needs to
                                > > provide a mechanism for uncovering hidden work while focusing the team as a
                                > > group.
                                > >
                                > > Let's see what advice others may have.
                                > >
                                > > *David Starr
                                > > **Scrum.org, Chief Craftsman* - *Improving the Profession of Software
                                > > Development*
                                > > elegantcode.com | @elegantcoder  | scrum.org | @scrumdotorg
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 5:10 PM, Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSM PSM I <
                                > > chuck-lists2@...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > >> **
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >> David,
                                > >>
                                > >> I like the extension, but I do have concerns.
                                > >>
                                > >> I'm hypothetically putting myself in the Dev Team member role.  "I've
                                > >> noticed over recent Daily Scrums that the information in the 'Everything
                                > >> Else'(EE) section of the DS gets a lot more attention and scrutiny from the
                                > >> SM.  As such, I've decided that, so long as I can claim work on a feature,
                                > >> I will generally not add anything more to the EE section of the DS.
                                > >>
                                > >> I'm sure a similar argument can be made for the traditional last
                                > >> meeting/next meeting/obstacle format, but I think a Developer would be more
                                > >> likely to reveal the EE info while recounting a basically chronological
                                > >> account of yesterday vs. the "feature based" approach with the EE section
                                > >> separated out.
                                > >>
                                > >> It's sort of like the difference between asking someone directly if they
                                > >> committed a crime vs. having them "tell their story," then investigating
                                > >> inconsistencies in the story.
                                > >>
                                > >> -------
                                > >> Charles Bradley
                                > >> http://www.ScrumCrazy.com
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >>  ------------------------------
                                > >> *From:* David Starr <david@...>
                                > >> *To:* scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                                > >> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 14, 2012 3:35 PM
                                > >> *Subject:* [scrumdevelopment] Feature-Focused Daily Scrum - New Scrum
                                > >> Extension Proposed
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >> This thread is the community conversation thread for a proposal to extend
                                > >> Scrum, the Feature-Focused Daily Scrum.
                                > >>
                                > >> Read the proposed extension here<http://www.scrum.org/storage/scrumguides/extension/Feature-Focused%20Daily%20Scrum.pdf>
                                > >> .
                                > >>
                                > >> As you may know, Scrum.org hosts the Scrum Guide, which defines the
                                > >> Scrum framework. Scrum Extensions are prescriptive guidance that goes
                                > >> beyond the Scrum framework to offer suggestions for how Scrum Teams can
                                > >> improve their practice within specific contexts.
                                > >>
                                > >> Scrum Extensions are authored and submitted by Scrum practitioners and
                                > >> published for consideration by the Scrum community in an open forum. Anyone
                                > >> may propose an extension.
                                > >> Please provide the extension author with feedback via this thread, or
                                > >> directly via email. All conversation is encouraged to occur in public and
                                > >> in the open.  We all want the vetting process for Scrum Extensions to be
                                > >> transparent.
                                > >>
                                > >> Read the Scrum Guide <http://www.scrum.org/scrumguides/> | Read about
                                > >> Scrum Extensions<http://www.scrum.org/scrum-extensions/?SSScrollPosition=56>
                                > >>
                                > >> *David Starr
                                > >> **Scrum.org, Chief Craftsman* - *Improving the Profession of Software
                                > >> Development*
                                > >> elegantcode.com | @elegantcoder  | scrum.org | @scrumdotorg
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > > 
                                > >
                                >




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                              • Abhilash c
                                David I personally liked your suggestions.In my teams which i have coached i ask different questions to get the focus on sprint goal rather than on the tasks.
                                Message 15 of 19 , Mar 17 8:04 AM
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  David

                                  I personally liked your suggestions.In my teams which i have coached i ask different questions to get the focus on sprint goal rather than on the tasks.

                                   I repeated these questions in scrum meeting for couple of sprints. In later sprints i could see team members answering these questions also without anyone asking them. 
                                  1. Are we on track? Will we meet our sprint goals? 
                                  2. If we are not on track what changes should we make to achieve our goals.
                                  3. Does anyone in the team has any updates/information which can affect the sprint goals?
                                   

                                  I support the idea of team discussing the EE part. If the facilitator starts asking this directly to each person then people might feel that they are going back to old world of micro-management. There is a high risk that team members will not speak out if they feel that they are being scrutinized. 

                                  Regards
                                  Abhilash



                                  On 15 March 2012 03:05, David Starr <david@...> wrote:
                                   

                                  This thread is the community conversation thread for a proposal to extend Scrum, the Feature-Focused Daily Scrum.


                                  Read the proposed extension here.


                                  As you may know, Scrum.org hosts the Scrum Guide, which defines the Scrum framework. Scrum Extensions are prescriptive guidance that goes beyond the Scrum framework to offer suggestions for how Scrum Teams can improve their practice within specific contexts.


                                  Scrum Extensions are authored and submitted by Scrum practitioners and published for consideration by the Scrum community in an open forum. Anyone may propose an extension.

                                  Please provide the extension author with feedback via this thread, or directly via email. All conversation is encouraged to occur in public and in the open.  We all want the vetting process for Scrum Extensions to be transparent.


                                  Read the Scrum Guide | Read about Scrum Extensions


                                  David Starr
                                  Scrum.org, Chief Craftsman - Improving the Profession of Software Development
                                  elegantcode.com | @elegantcoder  | scrum.org | @scrumdotorg



                                • David Starr
                                  Makes sense, Abhilash . Good tips. Thank you. *David Starr **Scrum.org, Chief Craftsman* - *Improving the Profession of Software Development* elegantcode.com
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Apr 5, 2012
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Makes sense,  Abhilash . Good tips. Thank you.

                                    David Starr
                                    Scrum.org, Chief Craftsman - Improving the Profession of Software Development
                                    elegantcode.com | @elegantcoder  | scrum.org | @scrumdotorg




                                    On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 9:04 AM, Abhilash c <c.abhilash@...> wrote:
                                    Abhilash

                                  • davidmstarr
                                    Thanks for all the feedback, folks. I have simplified the structure of our template as per the feedback here and I believe we re better for it. Now that this
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Apr 10, 2012
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Thanks for all the feedback, folks.

                                      I have simplified the structure of our template as per the feedback here and I believe we're better for it. Now that this template is improved we'll try and release a few more extension proposals that use this simplified template.

                                      Check it out, all.

                                      --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, David Starr <david@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > This thread is the community conversation thread for a proposal to extend
                                      > Scrum, the Feature-Focused Daily Scrum.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Read the proposed extension
                                      > here<http://www.scrum.org/storage/scrumguides/extension/Feature-Focused%20Daily%20Scrum.pdf>
                                      > .
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > As you may know, Scrum.org hosts the Scrum Guide, which defines the Scrum
                                      > framework. Scrum Extensions are prescriptive guidance that goes beyond the
                                      > Scrum framework to offer suggestions for how Scrum Teams can improve their
                                      > practice within specific contexts.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Scrum Extensions are authored and submitted by Scrum practitioners and
                                      > published for consideration by the Scrum community in an open forum. Anyone
                                      > may propose an extension.
                                      >
                                      > Please provide the extension author with feedback via this thread, or
                                      > directly via email. All conversation is encouraged to occur in public and
                                      > in the open. We all want the vetting process for Scrum Extensions to be
                                      > transparent.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Read the Scrum Guide <http://www.scrum.org/scrumguides/> | Read about Scrum
                                      > Extensions <http://www.scrum.org/scrum-extensions/?SSScrollPosition=56>
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > *David Starr
                                      > **Scrum.org, Chief Craftsman* - *Improving the Profession of Software
                                      > Development*
                                      > elegantcode.com | @elegantcoder | scrum.org | @scrumdotorg
                                      >
                                    • Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSM PSM I
                                      Apparently I m not the only person that has this same concern about  a Feature Focused Daily Scrum:
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Apr 17, 2012
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Apparently I'm not the only person that has this same concern about  a Feature Focused Daily Scrum:

                                        http://blog.mountaingoatsoftware.com/should-the-daily-standup-be-person-by-person-or-story-by-story/comment-page-1#comment-23428

                                        "...I don’t know if story focus helps with improvement. I don’t think it will but I will say that most teams miss the opportunity to use the daily scrum for noticing and suggesting improvements. It’s a shame that a lot of teams try to do all process improvement in the retrospective. A lot could be accemplished mid-sprint...."  -- Mike Cohn

                                        They said it better than I could... I remain in my position that I think this should be documented as a concern to watch out for when applying the extension.
                                         
                                        -------
                                        Charles Bradley
                                        http://www.ScrumCrazy.com




                                        From: Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSM PSM I <chuck-lists2@...>
                                        To: "scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com" <scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 8:10 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Feature-Focused Daily Scrum - New Scrum Extension Proposed

                                        David,

                                        I apologize if I wasn't clear before, and I think I was unclear.  My point is not that the Features and Goals(F&G) section would be overshadowed by the EE section.  Let me try again.

                                        In summary, I think it is possible, with some teams, that the transparency of the current DS content could be reduced by using the new extension, mostly in the EE content part of the meeting.  Further, I think there is often really good "empirical data" (inappropriate work, interesting tips from fellow team members about stuff that is not *directly* related to a PBI, mentioning a previously solved problem not directly related to a PBI, etc) on which to "inspect and adapt" in the EE content.  Said another way, I think some teams might be losing transparency on things that can be improved, in large part because recalling one's day chronologically (the current DS approach) vs. recalling/sorting the content into categories off the cuff(the extension appraoch) might cause some people to forget the EE content.

                                        If one breaks the current DS content conceptually into 2 category(not time-wise, but content wise), one with F&G, and one with EE.  The extension will probably increase the transparency on the F&G side, but I think it could decrease transparency on the EE side because developers have to recall and/or come up with the material in different ways.

                                        In the current DS (what is referred to as the "1-2-3 technique" in the extension), a team member simply has to recall events in rough chronological order, something that is pretty easy for humans to do.  I consider it a "high level bullet points" of what I did yesterday and what I plan to do today.

                                        In the extended DS, a team member has to remember to filter out EE in the F&G part (something that is not terribly hard for humans to do), and has something to use as a "memory peg (the PBI)" for what they need to say.  This is the huge benefit of the extension, IMO, focusing on the F&G part with a memory peg.

                                        During the EE part the human then has to recall the EE(remembering to leave out the F&G part which has already been done) from yesterday.  As such, remembering this chronologically is one strategy, but again, you have to subtract F&G content from your yesterday.  Then, for your "today", you have to again recall your plan, subtract the F&G content, and then speak that part.  I guess people might fall into a habit of having content ready for both and separate, but I doubt it.

                                        Further, the SM, during the EE part, has to investigate to draw out interesting EE content, where in the traditional DS it comes out naturally as part of a chronological recall, something humans do often.  I guess I'm saying for some people it might be much easier to do a full chronological recall than to add and subtract content categories(F&G vs. EE) on the fly in a meeting.

                                        I'm not saying I dislike the extension/pattern. What I am suggesting is that this possible risk of loss of information in the EE part should be documented in the extension as part of the context, somehow, IMHO.

                                        -------
                                        Charles Bradley
                                        http://www.ScrumCrazy.com




                                        From: David Starr <david@...>
                                        To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 6:10 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Feature-Focused Daily Scrum - New Scrum Extension Proposed



                                        Good points, Charles. I want to let this thread thrive a bit longer before responding.... but I can't help myself :-)

                                        I think you are right that the EE section could overshadow the feature discussion. In fact, we know that it will grow to fit its container, right? So, does that mean we should just make it really small and be strict on the timebox, or does it mean we shouldn't do it?  

                                        I do think every Daily Scrum should visit the features (the goal, the software, the progress, etc.) and any other items the team is working on. Whatever little framework one constructs for the Daily Scrum needs to provide a mechanism for uncovering hidden work while focusing the team as a group.

                                        Let's see what advice others may have.

                                        David Starr
                                        Scrum.org, Chief Craftsman - Improving the Profession of Software Development
                                        elegantcode.com | @elegantcoder  | scrum.org | @scrumdotorg




                                        On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 5:10 PM, Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSM PSM I <chuck-lists2@...> wrote:
                                         
                                        David,

                                        I like the extension, but I do have concerns.

                                        I'm hypothetically putting myself in the Dev Team member role.  "I've noticed over recent Daily Scrums that the information in the 'Everything Else'(EE) section of the DS gets a lot more attention and scrutiny from the SM.  As such, I've decided that, so long as I can claim work on a feature, I will generally not add anything more to the EE section of the DS.

                                        I'm sure a similar argument can be made for the traditional last meeting/next meeting/obstacle format, but I think a Developer would be more likely to reveal the EE info while recounting a basically chronological account of yesterday vs. the "feature based" approach with the EE section separated out.

                                        It's sort of like the difference between asking someone directly if they committed a crime vs. having them "tell their story," then investigating inconsistencies in the story.
                                         
                                        -------
                                        Charles Bradley
                                        http://www.ScrumCrazy.com



                                        Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 3:35 PM
                                        Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Feature-Focused Daily Scrum - New Scrum Extension Proposed



                                        This thread is the community conversation thread for a proposal to extend Scrum, the Feature-Focused Daily Scrum.


                                        As you may know, Scrum.org hosts the Scrum Guide, which defines the Scrum framework. Scrum Extensions are prescriptive guidance that goes beyond the Scrum framework to offer suggestions for how Scrum Teams can improve their practice within specific contexts.

                                        Scrum Extensions are authored and submitted by Scrum practitioners and published for consideration by the Scrum community in an open forum. Anyone may propose an extension.
                                        Please provide the extension author with feedback via this thread, or directly via email. All conversation is encouraged to occur in public and in the open.  We all want the vetting process for Scrum Extensions to be transparent.


                                        David Starr
                                        Scrum.org, Chief Craftsman - Improving the Profession of Software Development
                                        elegantcode.com | @elegantcoder  | scrum.org | @scrumdotorg













                                      • David Starr
                                        I agree it should be noted as a potential downfall. We ve been using this technique here at Scrum.org for awhile and the dynamics are interesting. Overall, I
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Apr 18, 2012
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          I agree it should be noted as a potential downfall.

                                          We've been using this technique here at Scrum.org for awhile and the dynamics are interesting. Overall, I think we all prefer it to a simple 3-question Daily Scrum. I can see how it could go off track.

                                          David Starr
                                          Scrum.org, Chief Craftsman - Improving the Profession of Software Development
                                          elegantcode.com | @elegantcoder  | scrum.org | @scrumdotorg




                                          On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 5:44 PM, Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSM PSM I <chuck-lists2@...> wrote:
                                           

                                          Apparently I'm not the only person that has this same concern about  a Feature Focused Daily Scrum:


                                          "...I don’t know if story focus helps with improvement. I don’t think it will but I will say that most teams miss the opportunity to use the daily scrum for noticing and suggesting improvements. It’s a shame that a lot of teams try to do all process improvement in the retrospective. A lot could be accemplished mid-sprint...."  -- Mike Cohn

                                          They said it better than I could... I remain in my position that I think this should be documented as a concern to watch out for when applying the extension.
                                           
                                          -------
                                          Charles Bradley
                                          http://www.ScrumCrazy.com




                                          From: Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSM PSM I <chuck-lists2@...>
                                          To: "scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com" <scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 8:10 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Feature-Focused Daily Scrum - New Scrum Extension Proposed

                                          David,

                                          I apologize if I wasn't clear before, and I think I was unclear.  My point is not that the Features and Goals(F&G) section would be overshadowed by the EE section.  Let me try again.

                                          In summary, I think it is possible, with some teams, that the transparency of the current DS content could be reduced by using the new extension, mostly in the EE content part of the meeting.  Further, I think there is often really good "empirical data" (inappropriate work, interesting tips from fellow team members about stuff that is not *directly* related to a PBI, mentioning a previously solved problem not directly related to a PBI, etc) on which to "inspect and adapt" in the EE content.  Said another way, I think some teams might be losing transparency on things that can be improved, in large part because recalling one's day chronologically (the current DS approach) vs. recalling/sorting the content into categories off the cuff(the extension appraoch) might cause some people to forget the EE content.

                                          If one breaks the current DS content conceptually into 2 category(not time-wise, but content wise), one with F&G, and one with EE.  The extension will probably increase the transparency on the F&G side, but I think it could decrease transparency on the EE side because developers have to recall and/or come up with the material in different ways.

                                          In the current DS (what is referred to as the "1-2-3 technique" in the extension), a team member simply has to recall events in rough chronological order, something that is pretty easy for humans to do.  I consider it a "high level bullet points" of what I did yesterday and what I plan to do today.

                                          In the extended DS, a team member has to remember to filter out EE in the F&G part (something that is not terribly hard for humans to do), and has something to use as a "memory peg (the PBI)" for what they need to say.  This is the huge benefit of the extension, IMO, focusing on the F&G part with a memory peg.

                                          During the EE part the human then has to recall the EE(remembering to leave out the F&G part which has already been done) from yesterday.  As such, remembering this chronologically is one strategy, but again, you have to subtract F&G content from your yesterday.  Then, for your "today", you have to again recall your plan, subtract the F&G content, and then speak that part.  I guess people might fall into a habit of having content ready for both and separate, but I doubt it.

                                          Further, the SM, during the EE part, has to investigate to draw out interesting EE content, where in the traditional DS it comes out naturally as part of a chronological recall, something humans do often.  I guess I'm saying for some people it might be much easier to do a full chronological recall than to add and subtract content categories(F&G vs. EE) on the fly in a meeting.

                                          I'm not saying I dislike the extension/pattern. What I am suggesting is that this possible risk of loss of information in the EE part should be documented in the extension as part of the context, somehow, IMHO.

                                          -------
                                          Charles Bradley
                                          http://www.ScrumCrazy.com




                                          From: David Starr <david@...>
                                          To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 6:10 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Feature-Focused Daily Scrum - New Scrum Extension Proposed



                                          Good points, Charles. I want to let this thread thrive a bit longer before responding.... but I can't help myself :-)

                                          I think you are right that the EE section could overshadow the feature discussion. In fact, we know that it will grow to fit its container, right? So, does that mean we should just make it really small and be strict on the timebox, or does it mean we shouldn't do it?  

                                          I do think every Daily Scrum should visit the features (the goal, the software, the progress, etc.) and any other items the team is working on. Whatever little framework one constructs for the Daily Scrum needs to provide a mechanism for uncovering hidden work while focusing the team as a group.

                                          Let's see what advice others may have.

                                          David Starr
                                          Scrum.org, Chief Craftsman - Improving the Profession of Software Development
                                          elegantcode.com | @elegantcoder  | scrum.org | @scrumdotorg




                                          On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 5:10 PM, Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSM PSM I <chuck-lists2@...> wrote:
                                           
                                          David,

                                          I like the extension, but I do have concerns.

                                          I'm hypothetically putting myself in the Dev Team member role.  "I've noticed over recent Daily Scrums that the information in the 'Everything Else'(EE) section of the DS gets a lot more attention and scrutiny from the SM.  As such, I've decided that, so long as I can claim work on a feature, I will generally not add anything more to the EE section of the DS.

                                          I'm sure a similar argument can be made for the traditional last meeting/next meeting/obstacle format, but I think a Developer would be more likely to reveal the EE info while recounting a basically chronological account of yesterday vs. the "feature based" approach with the EE section separated out.

                                          It's sort of like the difference between asking someone directly if they committed a crime vs. having them "tell their story," then investigating inconsistencies in the story.
                                           
                                          -------
                                          Charles Bradley
                                          http://www.ScrumCrazy.com



                                          Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 3:35 PM
                                          Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Feature-Focused Daily Scrum - New Scrum Extension Proposed



                                          This thread is the community conversation thread for a proposal to extend Scrum, the Feature-Focused Daily Scrum.


                                          As you may know, Scrum.org hosts the Scrum Guide, which defines the Scrum framework. Scrum Extensions are prescriptive guidance that goes beyond the Scrum framework to offer suggestions for how Scrum Teams can improve their practice within specific contexts.

                                          Scrum Extensions are authored and submitted by Scrum practitioners and published for consideration by the Scrum community in an open forum. Anyone may propose an extension.
                                          Please provide the extension author with feedback via this thread, or directly via email. All conversation is encouraged to occur in public and in the open.  We all want the vetting process for Scrum Extensions to be transparent.


                                          David Starr
                                          Scrum.org, Chief Craftsman - Improving the Profession of Software Development
                                          elegantcode.com | @elegantcoder  | scrum.org | @scrumdotorg














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