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Re: [scrumdevelopment] Relative value of Mike Cohn CSM vs more generic CSM

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  • Manish Soni
    This will be agreat learning for you. Regards, Manish Soni MCA, MBA, M. Phil. (Computer Science), B.Sc. (Mathematics, Physics, Computer Application) PRINCE2
    Message 1 of 19 , Jan 23, 2012
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      This will be agreat learning for you.

      Regards,
      Manish Soni
      MCA, MBA, M. Phil. (Computer Science), B.Sc. (Mathematics, Physics, Computer Application)
      PRINCE2 Practitioner, Certified Scrum Master, Microsoft Operations Framework, Certified Software Manager, Software Asset Management
      ITSM (ISO/IEC 20000), Information Security Foundation based on ISO/IEC 27002, Program & Project Support Office, Lean Six Sigma, ITIL
      MCTS (BizTalk Server 2006 Custom Applications), MCTS (Microsoft Office Project 2007)
      MCP (VB6 Distributed), MCP (Windows 2000 Server), IBM Cloud Computing Architecture, A Level, SCJP
      MCTS (.Net Framework 4 Service Communication Applications - Windows Communication Foundation Development)
      MCTS (Application Development - MOSS 2007), MCTS (SQL Server 2008 Implementation and Maintenance), CCNA
      MCPDEA, MCSD (.Net), MCDBA (SQL Server 2000), MCITP (SQL Server 2005), MCTS (Configuring - MOSS 2007)
      MCP (VB6 Desktop), OCA (9i), MCTS (Microsoft® SQL Server™ 2005 Business Intelligence Development), MCSE (2003)
      Microsoft Certified Business Management Solution Specialist In Microsoft Dynamics CRM 3.0 Applications
      Microsoft Certified Business Management Solution Specialist In Microsoft Dynamics CRM 3.0 Customization
      MCITP (Applications for Microsoft Dynamics CRM, Installation & Configuration for Microsoft Dynamics CRM)
      Microsoft Certified Business Management Solution Specialist In Microsoft Dynamics CRM 3.0 Installation and Configuration
      Microsoft Certified Business Management Solutions Specialist: Microsoft Dynamics CRM 4.0 Extending Microsoft Dynamics certification

      --- On Mon, 1/23/12, Michael Jones <michaelhardwinjones@...> wrote:

      From: Michael Jones <michaelhardwinjones@...>
      Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Relative value of Mike Cohn CSM vs more generic CSM
      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, January 23, 2012, 4:22 PM

       
      Hi all,

      My company is sending me on a CSM course.

      Mike Cohn is in town (London), end of the month, and the course is £300 more expensive than the baseline generic courses. I pitched to be allowed to go but the co. balked at the extra cost.

      They didn't see the value add of attending a course given by a thought leader in Scrum vs a professional trainer.

      I'm considering paying the difference myself if the company will let me.

      So my question is this: do you feel there's a great deal of extra value in attending a course given by Mike (or someone of equivalent stature) vs a relatively unknown professional trainer?

      Interested in opinions from people who might have attended either / both.

      Thanks,
      Michael
    • Bret Wortman
      I second Ron s sentiment. I was fortunate to have Jeff Sutherland co-teach my CSM class and while I don t think it cost me any extra, I would have certainly
      Message 2 of 19 , Jan 23, 2012
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        I second Ron's sentiment. I was fortunate to have Jeff Sutherland co-teach my CSM class and while I don't think it cost me any extra, I would have certainly paid the equivalent of a couple hundred extra pounds for the privilege, and I'd put Mike Cohn into that group as well. Jeff's stories from the field, and from his years and years of Scrum experience were invaluable and highly illustrative and provided illumination into how all this would work in the real world.

        Now, how much extra would I pay to attend a Scrum course taught by Bonnie Raitt? Now there's a good question....  :-)


        Bret


        On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 6:54 AM, RonJeffries <ronjeffries@...> wrote:
         

        Hi Michael,


        On Jan 23, 2012, at 5:52 AM, Michael Jones wrote:

        They didn't see the value add of attending a course given by a thought leader in Scrum vs a professional trainer. 

        I'm considering paying the difference myself if the company will let me. 

        So my question is this: do you feel there's a great deal of extra value in attending a course given by Mike (or someone of equivalent stature) vs a relatively unknown professional trainer? 

        Yes. Your company should pay it, actually. He literally wrote the books on planning and user stories for Scrum.

        All the CSTs have been through a rigorous selection process but it is a bit like asking whether to listen to your local bar band or pay a bit extra to hear Bonnie Raitt.

        Ron Jeffries
        I know we always like to say it'll be easier to do it now than it
        will be to do it later. Not likely. I plan to be smarter later than
        I am now, so I think it'll be just as easy later, maybe even easier.
        Why pay now when we can pay later?


      • Ram Srinivasan
        Message 3 of 19 , Jan 23, 2012
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          :), am enjoying reading your email !!!!

          On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 5:46 PM, RonJeffries <ronjeffries@...> wrote:
           

          Hi Michael,


          On Jan 23, 2012, at 7:12 AM, Michael Jones wrote:

          I'll see about paying the difference myself. (the company felt it would be unfair on other SMs who already received the more generic training, which to me is a slightly funny way to look at it, rather than looking at the value add for the whole team/company of SMs attending Mike's courses going forward) 

          Yes, It is important to be fair, especially if you can also be stupid at the same time. :)

          Ron Jeffries
          www.XProgramming.com
          I try to Zen through it and keep my voice very mellow and low.
          Inside I am screaming and have a machine gun.
          Yin and Yang I figure.
            -- Tom Jeffries


        • srinivas chillara
          What would be interesting to know is, if they are consistently delivering (to the DoD) all stories but the last. If they are then, what is the point of
          Message 4 of 19 , Jan 25, 2012
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            What would be interesting to know is, if they are consistently delivering (to the DoD) all stories but the last.
            If they are then, what is the point of agreeing a spillover? and we can think of some poor behavioural habits being built.
            Isn't it a confused or possibly insidious means of introducing pressure, and an eye wash?

            I have an inkling that you can see the problem, and are finding it difficult to explain to teams+mgmt.
            Here is more ammunition:
            ceezone.wordpress.com/2011/11/01/commitment-under-pressure/



            cheers|Srinivas





            From: "sharmila.patwardhan@..." <sharmila.patwardhan@...>
            To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, 25 January 2012 3:02 PM
            Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Planned Spill overs

             
            Hi,
             
            We have few projects who have been continuously planning more and also agreeing with PO about the risk of the last story being spilled over.
            I would like to convince them not to plan for spillovers, what could be the points of discussions for convincing them.
            I have few thought about not sharing so that I don’t influence others with my thoughts already.
             
            Regds,
            Sharmila
             


          • Steve Ropa
            I m not sure I understand what they are hoping to achieve by planning to not meet their commitments. I have worked with teams that did this as a way to
            Message 5 of 19 , Jan 25, 2012
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              I’m not sure I understand what they are hoping to achieve by planning to not meet their commitments.  I have worked with teams that did this as a way to hopefully “get more velocity” but honestly all it did was drain morale, and dilute the meaning of the commitment and plan.

               

              From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sharmila.patwardhan@...
              Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 2:33 AM
              To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Planned Spill overs

               

               

              Hi,

               

              We have few projects who have been continuously planning more and also agreeing with PO about the risk of the last story being spilled over.

              I would like to convince them not to plan for spillovers, what could be the points of discussions for convincing them.

              I have few thought about not sharing so that I don’t influence others with my thoughts already.

               

              Regds,

              Sharmila

               

            • Alan Dayley
              Planning for spill over of stories is a violation of the sprint time box. Time boxes have positive effects and can have negative effects. Without a time box,
              Message 6 of 19 , Jan 25, 2012
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                Planning for "spill over" of stories is a violation of the sprint time box.  Time boxes have positive effects and can have negative effects.

                Without a time box, sprints can feel like a treadmill of never ending work with a brief planning pause every two weeks.

                If the team consistently plans for spill over they no longer have a sprint time box.  Only you can say if that is bad for this team.

                Alan

                On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Steve Ropa <theropas@...> wrote:
                 

                I’m not sure I understand what they are hoping to achieve by planning to not meet their commitments.  I have worked with teams that did this as a way to hopefully “get more velocity” but honestly all it did was drain morale, and dilute the meaning of the commitment and plan.

                 

                From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sharmila.patwardhan@...
                Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 2:33 AM
                To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com


                Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Planned Spill overs

                 

                 

                Hi,

                 

                We have few projects who have been continuously planning more and also agreeing with PO about the risk of the last story being spilled over.

                I would like to convince them not to plan for spillovers, what could be the points of discussions for convincing them.

                I have few thought about not sharing so that I don’t influence others with my thoughts already.

                 

                Regds,

                Sharmila

                 


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