Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Understanding the Scrum Burndown Chart

Expand Messages
  • ginitram
    The Methods & Tools newsletter has just released in its html archive section the article Understanding the Scrum Burndown Chart by Dusan Kocurek. The Scrum
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 24, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      The Methods & Tools newsletter has just released in its html archive section the article "Understanding the Scrum Burndown Chart" by Dusan Kocurek. The Scrum Burndown chart is very simple. It is easy to explain, easy to understand. But this metric also put in evidence some pitfalls observed in many agile workshops and adoptions. This article discuss them.

      http://www.methodsandtools.com/archive/scrumburndown.php
    • woynam
      The diagrams demonstrate one of the biggest pitfalls in using burndowns: displaying the ideal line. I ve seen too many teams try to game the system to
      Message 2 of 11 , Jan 24, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        The diagrams demonstrate one of the biggest pitfalls in using burndowns: displaying the "ideal" line.

        I've seen too many teams try to game the system to achieve the "perfect" burn down. My recommendation is to *not* display the "ideal" line. If you're team is tracking ideally, I'm guessing that their lying.

        Mark

        --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "ginitram" <ginitram@...> wrote:
        >
        > The Methods & Tools newsletter has just released in its html archive section the article "Understanding the Scrum Burndown Chart" by Dusan Kocurek. The Scrum Burndown chart is very simple. It is easy to explain, easy to understand. But this metric also put in evidence some pitfalls observed in many agile workshops and adoptions. This article discuss them.
        >
        > http://www.methodsandtools.com/archive/scrumburndown.php
        >
      • George Dinwiddie
        Ginitram, ... I did a similar look at what different burndown shapes might mean for Better Software a couple years ago.
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 24, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          Ginitram,

          On 1/24/12 8:23 AM, ginitram wrote:
          > The Methods& Tools newsletter has just released in its html archive
          > section the article "Understanding the Scrum Burndown Chart" by Dusan
          > Kocurek. The Scrum Burndown chart is very simple. It is easy to
          > explain, easy to understand. But this metric also put in evidence
          > some pitfalls observed in many agile workshops and adoptions. This
          > article discuss them.
          >
          > http://www.methodsandtools.com/archive/scrumburndown.php

          I did a similar look at what different burndown shapes might mean for
          Better Software a couple years ago.
          (http://idiacomputing.com/pub/BetterSoftware-BurnCharts.pdf) I would
          differ on some of Dusan's conclusions, but more importantly, I would say
          that if you get a conclusion from the shape of the burndown, then you're
          headed in the wrong direction. Every burndown shape could be caused by
          multiple situations. Looking at the shape gives you clues, but talk to
          people and observe the work before drawing a conclusion.

          I also differ with the advice to use story points rather than stories on
          the burndown. Sure, that will work, but I've found it even better to
          split the stories smaller and drop the estimation in points. Bob Payne
          and I may be talking about this at Agile 2012.
          http://submit2012.agilealliance.org/node/13999

          - George

          --
          ----------------------------------------------------------------------
          * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
          Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
          Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
          ----------------------------------------------------------------------
        • RonJeffries
          Absolutely! Deviations are a flag. They can be caused by many quite different things. ... Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com I try to Zen through it and keep my
          Message 4 of 11 , Jan 24, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            Absolutely! Deviations are a flag. They can be caused by many quite different things.

            On Jan 24, 2012, at 3:29 PM, George Dinwiddie wrote:

            Every burndown shape could be caused by 
            multiple situations. Looking at the shape gives you clues, but talk to 
            people and observe the work before drawing a conclusion.


            Ron Jeffries
            www.XProgramming.com
            I try to Zen through it and keep my voice very mellow and low.
            Inside I am screaming and have a machine gun.
            Yin and Yang I figure.
              -- Tom Jeffries

          • Michael James
            +1. Let s not pretend creative work is as predictable as manufacturing. --mj
            Message 5 of 11 , Jan 24, 2012
            • 0 Attachment
              +1.  Let's not pretend creative work is as predictable as manufacturing. 

              --mj


              On Jan 24, 2012, at 11:28 AM, "woynam" <woyna@...> wrote:

               


              The diagrams demonstrate one of the biggest pitfalls in using burndowns: displaying the "ideal" line.

              I've seen too many teams try to game the system to achieve the "perfect" burn down. My recommendation is to *not* display the "ideal" line. If you're team is tracking ideally, I'm guessing that their lying.

              Mark

              --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "ginitram" <ginitram@...> wrote:
              >
              > The Methods & Tools newsletter has just released in its html archive section the article "Understanding the Scrum Burndown Chart" by Dusan Kocurek. The Scrum Burndown chart is very simple. It is easy to explain, easy to understand. But this metric also put in evidence some pitfalls observed in many agile workshops and adoptions. This article discuss them.
              >
              > http://www.methodsandtools.com/archive/scrumburndown.php
              >

            • Steve Ropa
              I’ve been telling people to ignore the “ideal line” for years. Sadly, that usually irritates some of the PM’s I talk to. From:
              Message 6 of 11 , Jan 24, 2012
              • 0 Attachment

                I’ve been telling people to ignore the “ideal line” for years.  Sadly, that usually irritates some of the PM’s I talk to.

                 

                From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael James
                Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 2:14 PM
                To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Understanding the Scrum Burndown Chart

                 

                 

                +1.  Let's not pretend creative work is as predictable as manufacturing. 

                --mj

                 


                On Jan 24, 2012, at 11:28 AM, "woynam" <woyna@...> wrote:

                 


                The diagrams demonstrate one of the biggest pitfalls in using burndowns: displaying the "ideal" line.

                I've seen too many teams try to game the system to achieve the "perfect" burn down. My recommendation is to *not* display the "ideal" line. If you're team is tracking ideally, I'm guessing that their lying.

                Mark

                --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "ginitram" <ginitram@...> wrote:
                >
                > The Methods & Tools newsletter has just released in its html archive section the article "Understanding the Scrum Burndown Chart" by Dusan Kocurek. The Scrum Burndown chart is very simple. It is easy to explain, easy to understand. But this metric also put in evidence some pitfalls observed in many agile workshops and adoptions. This article discuss them.
                >
                > http://www.methodsandtools.com/archive/scrumburndown.php
                >

              • Michael James
                Adding to that, there wasn t any ideal line when the Sprint Burndown was first described in writing, it seems to have been added by tools vendors. It s not
                Message 7 of 11 , Jan 24, 2012
                • 0 Attachment
                  Adding to that, there wasn't any "ideal line" when the Sprint Burndown was first described in writing, it seems to have been added by tools vendors.  It's not prescribed by Scrum, and certainly not a desirable enhancement.  I argued against including it in the tool I was involved with, but customers demanded it because the competitors had it....

                  --mj (no longer a fan of the Sprint Burndown anyway)

                  On Jan 24, 2012, at 1:46 PM, Steve Ropa wrote:

                   

                  I’ve been telling people to ignore the “ideal line” for years.  Sadly, that usually irritates some of the PM’s I talk to.

                   

                  From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael James
                  Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 2:14 PM
                  To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Understanding the Scrum Burndown Chart

                   

                   

                  +1.  Let's not pretend creative work is as predictable as manufacturing. 

                  --mj

                   


                  On Jan 24, 2012, at 11:28 AM, "woynam" <woyna@...> wrote:

                   


                  The diagrams demonstrate one of the biggest pitfalls in using burndowns: displaying the "ideal" line.

                  I've seen too many teams try to game the system to achieve the "perfect" burn down. My recommendation is to *not* display the "ideal" line. If you're team is tracking ideally, I'm guessing that their lying.

                  Mark

                  --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "ginitram" <ginitram@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > The Methods & Tools newsletter has just released in its html archive section the article "Understanding the Scrum Burndown Chart" by Dusan Kocurek. The Scrum Burndown chart is very simple. It is easy to explain, easy to understand. But this metric also put in evidence some pitfalls observed in many agile workshops and adoptions. This article discuss them.
                  >
                  > http://www.methodsandtools.com/archive/scrumburndown.php
                  >



                • Steve Ropa
                  Yeah, we had the same experience. I am with you on the no longer a fan bandwagon as well. From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jan 24, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment

                    Yeah, we had the same experience. 

                     

                    I am with you on the “no longer a fan” bandwagon as well.

                     

                    From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael James
                    Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 3:20 PM
                    To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Understanding the Scrum Burndown Chart

                     

                     

                    Adding to that, there wasn't any "ideal line" when the Sprint Burndown was first described in writing, it seems to have been added by tools vendors.  It's not prescribed by Scrum, and certainly not a desirable enhancement.  I argued against including it in the tool I was involved with, but customers demanded it because the competitors had it....

                     

                    --mj (no longer a fan of the Sprint Burndown anyway)

                     

                    On Jan 24, 2012, at 1:46 PM, Steve Ropa wrote:



                     

                     

                    I’ve been telling people to ignore the “ideal line” for years.  Sadly, that usually irritates some of the PM’s I talk to.

                     

                    From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael James
                    Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 2:14 PM
                    To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Understanding the Scrum Burndown Chart

                     

                     

                    +1.  Let's not pretend creative work is as predictable as manufacturing. 

                    --mj

                     


                    On Jan 24, 2012, at 11:28 AM, "woynam" <woyna@...> wrote:

                     


                    The diagrams demonstrate one of the biggest pitfalls in using burndowns: displaying the "ideal" line.

                    I've seen too many teams try to game the system to achieve the "perfect" burn down. My recommendation is to *not* display the "ideal" line. If you're team is tracking ideally, I'm guessing that their lying.

                    Mark

                    --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "ginitram" <ginitram@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > The Methods & Tools newsletter has just released in its html archive section the article "Understanding the Scrum Burndown Chart" by Dusan Kocurek. The Scrum Burndown chart is very simple. It is easy to explain, easy to understand. But this metric also put in evidence some pitfalls observed in many agile workshops and adoptions. This article discuss them.
                    >
                    > http://www.methodsandtools.com/archive/scrumburndown.php
                    >

                     

                     

                  • Andrew Burrows
                    You can add me to that bandwagon too. I ve found sprint backlogs tend to become redundant pretty quickly if your team is collaborative and communicate well.
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jan 24, 2012
                    • 0 Attachment
                      You can add me to that bandwagon too. I've found sprint backlogs tend to become redundant pretty quickly if your team is collaborative and communicate well. Rely on the graph and by the time you're observing a pattern it could be too late to remove the impediment.

                      On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 5:43 PM, Steve Ropa <theropas@...> wrote:
                       

                      Yeah, we had the same experience. 

                       

                      I am with you on the “no longer a fan” bandwagon as well.

                       

                      From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael James
                      Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 3:20 PM
                      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Understanding the Scrum Burndown Chart

                       

                       

                      Adding to that, there wasn't any "ideal line" when the Sprint Burndown was first described in writing, it seems to have been added by tools vendors.  It's not prescribed by Scrum, and certainly not a desirable enhancement.  I argued against including it in the tool I was involved with, but customers demanded it because the competitors had it....

                       

                      --mj (no longer a fan of the Sprint Burndown anyway)

                       

                      On Jan 24, 2012, at 1:46 PM, Steve Ropa wrote:



                       

                       

                      I’ve been telling people to ignore the “ideal line” for years.  Sadly, that usually irritates some of the PM’s I talk to.

                       

                      From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael James
                      Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 2:14 PM
                      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Understanding the Scrum Burndown Chart

                       

                       

                      +1.  Let's not pretend creative work is as predictable as manufacturing. 

                      --mj

                       


                      On Jan 24, 2012, at 11:28 AM, "woynam" <woyna@...> wrote:

                       


                      The diagrams demonstrate one of the biggest pitfalls in using burndowns: displaying the "ideal" line.

                      I've seen too many teams try to game the system to achieve the "perfect" burn down. My recommendation is to *not* display the "ideal" line. If you're team is tracking ideally, I'm guessing that their lying.

                      Mark

                      --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "ginitram" <ginitram@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > The Methods & Tools newsletter has just released in its html archive section the article "Understanding the Scrum Burndown Chart" by Dusan Kocurek. The Scrum Burndown chart is very simple. It is easy to explain, easy to understand. But this metric also put in evidence some pitfalls observed in many agile workshops and adoptions. This article discuss them.
                      >
                      > http://www.methodsandtools.com/archive/scrumburndown.php
                      >

                       

                       




                      --
                      Andrew Burrows
                      Managing Producer, Large Animal Games
                      Call me: 212-989-4312
                      Follow me: @readytoscrumble

                    • Andrew Burrows
                      Whoops - I mean sprint burndown charts, not sprint backlogs. ... -- Andrew Burrows Managing Producer, Large Animal Games Call me: 212-989-4312 Follow me:
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jan 24, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Whoops - I mean sprint burndown charts, not sprint backlogs.

                        On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 5:51 PM, Andrew Burrows <andy@...> wrote:
                        You can add me to that bandwagon too. I've found sprint backlogs tend to become redundant pretty quickly if your team is collaborative and communicate well. Rely on the graph and by the time you're observing a pattern it could be too late to remove the impediment.


                        On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 5:43 PM, Steve Ropa <theropas@...> wrote:
                         

                        Yeah, we had the same experience. 

                         

                        I am with you on the “no longer a fan” bandwagon as well.

                         

                        From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael James
                        Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 3:20 PM
                        To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Understanding the Scrum Burndown Chart

                         

                         

                        Adding to that, there wasn't any "ideal line" when the Sprint Burndown was first described in writing, it seems to have been added by tools vendors.  It's not prescribed by Scrum, and certainly not a desirable enhancement.  I argued against including it in the tool I was involved with, but customers demanded it because the competitors had it....

                         

                        --mj (no longer a fan of the Sprint Burndown anyway)

                         

                        On Jan 24, 2012, at 1:46 PM, Steve Ropa wrote:



                         

                         

                        I’ve been telling people to ignore the “ideal line” for years.  Sadly, that usually irritates some of the PM’s I talk to.

                         

                        From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael James
                        Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 2:14 PM
                        To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Understanding the Scrum Burndown Chart

                         

                         

                        +1.  Let's not pretend creative work is as predictable as manufacturing. 

                        --mj

                         


                        On Jan 24, 2012, at 11:28 AM, "woynam" <woyna@...> wrote:

                         


                        The diagrams demonstrate one of the biggest pitfalls in using burndowns: displaying the "ideal" line.

                        I've seen too many teams try to game the system to achieve the "perfect" burn down. My recommendation is to *not* display the "ideal" line. If you're team is tracking ideally, I'm guessing that their lying.

                        Mark

                        --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "ginitram" <ginitram@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > The Methods & Tools newsletter has just released in its html archive section the article "Understanding the Scrum Burndown Chart" by Dusan Kocurek. The Scrum Burndown chart is very simple. It is easy to explain, easy to understand. But this metric also put in evidence some pitfalls observed in many agile workshops and adoptions. This article discuss them.
                        >
                        > http://www.methodsandtools.com/archive/scrumburndown.php
                        >

                         

                         




                        --
                        Andrew Burrows
                        Managing Producer, Large Animal Games
                        Call me: 212-989-4312
                        Follow me: @readytoscrumble




                        --
                        Andrew Burrows
                        Managing Producer, Large Animal Games
                        Call me: 212-989-4312
                        Follow me: @readytoscrumble

                      • uday varma
                        I am also on the same page... But is there any other mechanisms in the way to get this clues (from the deviations)...In my view it atleast provides some
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jan 24, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I am also on the same page...
                          But is there any other mechanisms in the way to get this clues (from the deviations)...In my view it atleast provides some indicators when comapred as expected vs. actual..

                          From: Steve Ropa <theropas@...>
                          To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wednesday, 25 January 2012 4:13 AM
                          Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] Understanding the Scrum Burndown Chart

                           
                          Yeah, we had the same experience. 
                           
                          I am with you on the “no longer a fan” bandwagon as well.
                           
                          From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael James
                          Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 3:20 PM
                          To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Understanding the Scrum Burndown Chart
                           
                           
                          Adding to that, there wasn't any "ideal line" when the Sprint Burndown was first described in writing, it seems to have been added by tools vendors.  It's not prescribed by Scrum, and certainly not a desirable enhancement.  I argued against including it in the tool I was involved with, but customers demanded it because the competitors had it....
                           
                          --mj (no longer a fan of the Sprint Burndown anyway)
                           
                          On Jan 24, 2012, at 1:46 PM, Steve Ropa wrote:


                           
                           
                          I’ve been telling people to ignore the “ideal line” for years.  Sadly, that usually irritates some of the PM’s I talk to.
                           
                          From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael James
                          Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 2:14 PM
                          To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Understanding the Scrum Burndown Chart
                           
                           
                          +1.  Let's not pretend creative work is as predictable as manufacturing. 

                          --mj
                           

                          On Jan 24, 2012, at 11:28 AM, "woynam" <woyna@...> wrote:
                           

                          The diagrams demonstrate one of the biggest pitfalls in using burndowns: displaying the "ideal" line.

                          I've seen too many teams try to game the system to achieve the "perfect" burn down. My recommendation is to *not* display the "ideal" line. If you're team is tracking ideally, I'm guessing that their lying.

                          Mark

                          --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "ginitram" <ginitram@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > The Methods & Tools newsletter has just released in its html archive section the article "Understanding the Scrum Burndown Chart" by Dusan Kocurek. The Scrum Burndown chart is very simple. It is easy to explain, easy to understand. But this metric also put in evidence some pitfalls observed in many agile workshops and adoptions. This article discuss them.
                          >
                          > http://www.methodsandtools.com/archive/scrumburndown.php
                          >
                           
                           


                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.