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Re: [leanagile] Scrum without a ScrumMaster

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  • Andrew Pham
    Alan, Excellent post! We are on the same page... Andrew Author of *Scrum in Action**, Agile Project Management and Development in the Real-World*
    Message 1 of 5 , Dec 3, 2011
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      Alan,

      Excellent post! We are on the same page...


      Andrew

      Author of
      Scrum in Action, Agile Project Management and Development in the Real-World
      http://www.amazon.com/Scrum-Action-Andrew-Pham/dp/143545913X/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_1-1

      and of "Business-Driven IT-Wide Agile (Scrum) and/or Kanban (Lean) Implementation" (reviewed and upcoming)



      On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 11:57 AM, alshalloway <alshall@...> wrote:
       

      I was asked this question by a viewer of my intro to kanban webinar.

      We are planning to use scrum with a pilot. Our company is small, so the scrum team is about 5 members. We cannot assign one person for Scrum Master and another one for Product Owner. Could we still apply scrum without Scrum Master?

      Do you have experiences in a similar scenario?
      ---------------------------------

      Yes, Scrum can still be used. In fact, Scrum is particularly useful for small teams like this. I would suggest reading The New New Product Development Game. http://www.sao.corvallis.or.us/drupal/files/The%20New%20New%20Product%20Development%20Game.pdf
      It is the article that inspired Scrum in the first place and provides great insights.

      I would suggest that the whoever is the current team lead now play the role of the Scrum Master (assuming it isn't the Product Owner as these two roles conflict at times.

      In my mind the role of the ScrumMaster is twofold:
      1) help identify the challenges the team is having
      2) do something about them

      The first requires the ability to step back and times and reflect. The standups and retrospections are supposed to do this, but, in my mind, are somewhat challenged in the ability to sustain this.

      A way to extend Scrum and lower the need of a ScrumMaster is to have explicit workflow policies so everybody knows the rules of the game so to speak of the team. These can change at any time, of course - and they will as you proceed down this path. This is a Kanban practice and is very valuable. If you further have this explicit workflow mirrored on the Scrum board (you now have a Kanban board) anyone on the team will easily see impacts. This somewhat diminishes the need for a ScrumMaster, but in my opinion, someone who acts as lead/coach of the team is always important.

      Hope this helps.
      Alan Shalloway
      CEO, Net Objectives


    • Pierre Neis
      According to the latest Scrum Guide (07/11), a Scrum without a Scrum Master is not a Scrum. *Pierre E. NEIS*, *csp* *Head of Lean Competence Centre @
      Message 2 of 5 , Dec 3, 2011
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        According to the latest Scrum Guide (07/11), a Scrum without a Scrum Master is not a Scrum.


        Pierre E.  NEIScsp

        Head of Lean Competence Centre @ coPROcess S.A. 
        │ Scrum & Lean Coach   

        M: +352 / 661 727 867  - Skype: pierre.neis  
        Meet with me: http://meetwith.me/pierreneis



         

        TwitterLatest tweet: a Daily NEIS's world! is out! http://t.co/YpLxwEdT ▸ Top stories today via @michael_leber @claudeaubry @ign @makeastartup Follow @elPedroMajor Reply Retweet   13:02 Dec-03


        On 3 December 2011 19:07, Andrew Pham <andrewpham74@...> wrote:
         

        Alan,

        Excellent post! We are on the same page...


        Andrew

        Author of
        Scrum in Action, Agile Project Management and Development in the Real-World
        http://www.amazon.com/Scrum-Action-Andrew-Pham/dp/143545913X/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_1-1

        and of "Business-Driven IT-Wide Agile (Scrum) and/or Kanban (Lean) Implementation" (reviewed and upcoming)





        On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 11:57 AM, alshalloway <alshall@...> wrote:
         

        I was asked this question by a viewer of my intro to kanban webinar.

        We are planning to use scrum with a pilot. Our company is small, so the scrum team is about 5 members. We cannot assign one person for Scrum Master and another one for Product Owner. Could we still apply scrum without Scrum Master?

        Do you have experiences in a similar scenario?
        ---------------------------------

        Yes, Scrum can still be used. In fact, Scrum is particularly useful for small teams like this. I would suggest reading The New New Product Development Game. http://www.sao.corvallis.or.us/drupal/files/The%20New%20New%20Product%20Development%20Game.pdf
        It is the article that inspired Scrum in the first place and provides great insights.

        I would suggest that the whoever is the current team lead now play the role of the Scrum Master (assuming it isn't the Product Owner as these two roles conflict at times.

        In my mind the role of the ScrumMaster is twofold:
        1) help identify the challenges the team is having
        2) do something about them

        The first requires the ability to step back and times and reflect. The standups and retrospections are supposed to do this, but, in my mind, are somewhat challenged in the ability to sustain this.

        A way to extend Scrum and lower the need of a ScrumMaster is to have explicit workflow policies so everybody knows the rules of the game so to speak of the team. These can change at any time, of course - and they will as you proceed down this path. This is a Kanban practice and is very valuable. If you further have this explicit workflow mirrored on the Scrum board (you now have a Kanban board) anyone on the team will easily see impacts. This somewhat diminishes the need for a ScrumMaster, but in my opinion, someone who acts as lead/coach of the team is always important.

        Hope this helps.
        Alan Shalloway
        CEO, Net Objectives



      • ag12340@rocketmail.com
        Thank you Andrew and Alan. I agree. ... I do not understand this. Is there an blog or article you can refer me to which has some practical examples of workflow
        Message 3 of 5 , Dec 3, 2011
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          Thank you Andrew and Alan. I agree.

          >>"explicit workflow policies so everybody knows the rules of the game so to speak of the team."

          I do not understand this. Is there an blog or article you can refer me to which has some practical examples of workflow policies in Scrum/Kanban?


          --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Pham <andrewpham74@...> wrote:
          >
          > Alan,
          >
          > Excellent post! We are on the same page...
          >
          > Andrew
          >
          > Author of *Scrum in Action**, Agile Project Management and Development in
          > the Real-World*
          > http://www.amazon.com/Scrum-Action-Andrew-Pham/dp/143545913X/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_
          > *1*<http://www.amazon.com/Scrum-Action-Andrew-Pham/dp/143545913X/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_1>
          > -1
          >
          > and of *"Business-Driven IT-Wide Agile (Scrum) and/or Kanban (Lean)
          > Implementation" **(reviewed and upcoming)*
          >
          >
          >
          > On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 11:57 AM, alshalloway <alshall@...>wrote:
          >
          > > **
          > >
          > >
          > > I was asked this question by a viewer of my intro to kanban webinar.
          > >
          > > We are planning to use scrum with a pilot. Our company is small, so the
          > > scrum team is about 5 members. We cannot assign one person for Scrum Master
          > > and another one for Product Owner. Could we still apply scrum without Scrum
          > > Master?
          > >
          > > Do you have experiences in a similar scenario?
          > > ---------------------------------
          > >
          > > Yes, Scrum can still be used. In fact, Scrum is particularly useful for
          > > small teams like this. I would suggest reading The New New Product
          > > Development Game.
          > > http://www.sao.corvallis.or.us/drupal/files/The%20New%20New%20Product%20Development%20Game.pdf
          > > It is the article that inspired Scrum in the first place and provides
          > > great insights.
          > >
          > > I would suggest that the whoever is the current team lead now play the
          > > role of the Scrum Master (assuming it isn't the Product Owner as these two
          > > roles conflict at times.
          > >
          > > In my mind the role of the ScrumMaster is twofold:
          > > 1) help identify the challenges the team is having
          > > 2) do something about them
          > >
          > > The first requires the ability to step back and times and reflect. The
          > > standups and retrospections are supposed to do this, but, in my mind, are
          > > somewhat challenged in the ability to sustain this.
          > >
          > > A way to extend Scrum and lower the need of a ScrumMaster is to have
          > > explicit workflow policies so everybody knows the rules of the game so to
          > > speak of the team. These can change at any time, of course - and they will
          > > as you proceed down this path. This is a Kanban practice and is very
          > > valuable. If you further have this explicit workflow mirrored on the Scrum
          > > board (you now have a Kanban board) anyone on the team will easily see
          > > impacts. This somewhat diminishes the need for a ScrumMaster, but in my
          > > opinion, someone who acts as lead/coach of the team is always important.
          > >
          > > Hope this helps.
          > > Alan Shalloway
          > > CEO, Net Objectives
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
        • ag12340@rocketmail.com
          LOL, Ok, We will call it Scrum++.
          Message 4 of 5 , Dec 3, 2011
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            LOL, Ok, We will call it Scrum++.

            --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Pierre Neis <pierreneis@...> wrote:
            >
            > According to the latest Scrum Guide (07/11), a Scrum without a Scrum Master
            > is not a Scrum.
            >
            >
            > *Pierre E. NEIS*, *csp*
            >
            > *Head of Lean Competence Centre @ coPROcess S.A. **â"‚ Scrum & Lean Coach *
            >
            > *M*: +352 / 661 727 867 - *Skype*: pierre.neis
            > *Meet with* me: http://meetwith.me/pierreneis
            >
            > *
            > *
            >
            > “"Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." -
            > Benjamin Franklin<http://www.quotesdaddy.com/quote/73176/benjamin-franklin/tell-me-and-i-forget-teach-me-and-i-remember-involve>
            > ” Get this email app!
            > <http://www.wisestamp.com/apps/quotes?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_term=quotes&utm_campaign=apps>
            >
            > [image: Twitter] <http://twitter.com/elPedroMajor>Latest tweet: a Daily
            > NEIS's world! is out! http://t.co/YpLxwEdT ▸ Top stories today via
            > @michael_leber @claudeaubry @ign @makeastartup Follow
            > @elPedroMajor<http://twitter.com/elPedroMajor> Reply
            > <http://twitter.com/?status=@elPedroMajor%20&in_reply_to_status_id=142936845175623680&in_reply_to=elPedroMajor>
            > Retweet
            > <http://twitter.com/?status=RT%20%40elPedroMajor%3A%20a%20Daily%20NEIS's%20world!%20is%20out!%20http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FYpLxwEdT%20%E2%96%B8%20Top%20stories%20today%20via%20%40michael_leber%20%40claudeaubry%20%40ign%20%40makeastartup>
            > 13:02 Dec-03<http://twitter.com/elPedroMajor/statuses/142936845175623681>
            > Get a signature like this.
            > <http://r1.wisestamp.com/r/landing?promo=17&dest=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wisestamp.com%2Femail-install%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_campaign%3Dpromo_17>
            > CLICK
            > HERE.<http://r1.wisestamp.com/r/landing?promo=17&dest=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wisestamp.com%2Femail-install%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_campaign%3Dpromo_17>
            >
            >
            >
            > On 3 December 2011 19:07, Andrew Pham <andrewpham74@...> wrote:
            >
            > > **
            > >
            > >
            > > Alan,
            > >
            > > Excellent post! We are on the same page...
            > >
            > > Andrew
            > >
            > > Author of *Scrum in Action**, Agile Project Management and Development in
            > > the Real-World*
            > >
            > > http://www.amazon.com/Scrum-Action-Andrew-Pham/dp/143545913X/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_
            > > *1*<http://www.amazon.com/Scrum-Action-Andrew-Pham/dp/143545913X/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_1>
            > > -1
            > >
            > > and of *"Business-Driven IT-Wide Agile (Scrum) and/or Kanban (Lean)
            > > Implementation" **(reviewed and upcoming)*
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 11:57 AM, alshalloway <alshall@...>wrote:
            > >
            > >> **
            > >>
            > >>
            > >> I was asked this question by a viewer of my intro to kanban webinar.
            > >>
            > >> We are planning to use scrum with a pilot. Our company is small, so the
            > >> scrum team is about 5 members. We cannot assign one person for Scrum Master
            > >> and another one for Product Owner. Could we still apply scrum without Scrum
            > >> Master?
            > >>
            > >> Do you have experiences in a similar scenario?
            > >> ---------------------------------
            > >>
            > >> Yes, Scrum can still be used. In fact, Scrum is particularly useful for
            > >> small teams like this. I would suggest reading The New New Product
            > >> Development Game.
            > >> http://www.sao.corvallis.or.us/drupal/files/The%20New%20New%20Product%20Development%20Game.pdf
            > >> It is the article that inspired Scrum in the first place and provides
            > >> great insights.
            > >>
            > >> I would suggest that the whoever is the current team lead now play the
            > >> role of the Scrum Master (assuming it isn't the Product Owner as these two
            > >> roles conflict at times.
            > >>
            > >> In my mind the role of the ScrumMaster is twofold:
            > >> 1) help identify the challenges the team is having
            > >> 2) do something about them
            > >>
            > >> The first requires the ability to step back and times and reflect. The
            > >> standups and retrospections are supposed to do this, but, in my mind, are
            > >> somewhat challenged in the ability to sustain this.
            > >>
            > >> A way to extend Scrum and lower the need of a ScrumMaster is to have
            > >> explicit workflow policies so everybody knows the rules of the game so to
            > >> speak of the team. These can change at any time, of course - and they will
            > >> as you proceed down this path. This is a Kanban practice and is very
            > >> valuable. If you further have this explicit workflow mirrored on the Scrum
            > >> board (you now have a Kanban board) anyone on the team will easily see
            > >> impacts. This somewhat diminishes the need for a ScrumMaster, but in my
            > >> opinion, someone who acts as lead/coach of the team is always important.
            > >>
            > >> Hope this helps.
            > >> Alan Shalloway
            > >> CEO, Net Objectives
            > >>
            > >>
            > >
            > >
            >
          • ag12340@rocketmail.com
            before some one misunderstands my Scrum++ comment, this is the approach I am going with http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scrumdevelopment/message/53434 I got
            Message 5 of 5 , Dec 3, 2011
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              before some one misunderstands my "Scrum++" comment,

              this is the approach I am going with

              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scrumdevelopment/message/53434

              I got some excellent suggestions in this forum from Mark, MJ, Pierre and others- 1) I now use word "facilitate meetings" instead of "lead meetings" 2) Strive to make sure team understands that roles like Scrum Master and Tech lead are not sticky. As sticky roles and titles are not good for self organizing. 3) Get a coach for initial period and then time to time to make sure we are not doing something stupid.

              --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "ag12340@..." <ag12340@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > LOL, Ok, We will call it Scrum++.
              >
              > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Pierre Neis <pierreneis@> wrote:
              > >
              > > According to the latest Scrum Guide (07/11), a Scrum without a Scrum Master
              > > is not a Scrum.
              > >
              > >
              > > *Pierre E. NEIS*, *csp*
              > >
              > > *Head of Lean Competence Centre @ coPROcess S.A. **â"‚ Scrum & Lean Coach *
              > >
              > > *M*: +352 / 661 727 867 - *Skype*: pierre.neis
              > > *Meet with* me: http://meetwith.me/pierreneis
              > >
              > > *
              > > *
              > >
              > > “"Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." -
              > > Benjamin Franklin<http://www.quotesdaddy.com/quote/73176/benjamin-franklin/tell-me-and-i-forget-teach-me-and-i-remember-involve>
              > > ” Get this email app!
              > > <http://www.wisestamp.com/apps/quotes?utm_source=extension&utm_medium=email&utm_term=quotes&utm_campaign=apps>
              > >
              > > [image: Twitter] <http://twitter.com/elPedroMajor>Latest tweet: a Daily
              > > NEIS's world! is out! http://t.co/YpLxwEdT ▸ Top stories today via
              > > @michael_leber @claudeaubry @ign @makeastartup Follow
              > > @elPedroMajor<http://twitter.com/elPedroMajor> Reply
              > > <http://twitter.com/?status=@elPedroMajor%20&in_reply_to_status_id=142936845175623680&in_reply_to=elPedroMajor>
              > > Retweet
              > > <http://twitter.com/?status=RT%20%40elPedroMajor%3A%20a%20Daily%20NEIS's%20world!%20is%20out!%20http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FYpLxwEdT%20%E2%96%B8%20Top%20stories%20today%20via%20%40michael_leber%20%40claudeaubry%20%40ign%20%40makeastartup>
              > > 13:02 Dec-03<http://twitter.com/elPedroMajor/statuses/142936845175623681>
              > > Get a signature like this.
              > > <http://r1.wisestamp.com/r/landing?promo=17&dest=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wisestamp.com%2Femail-install%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_campaign%3Dpromo_17>
              > > CLICK
              > > HERE.<http://r1.wisestamp.com/r/landing?promo=17&dest=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wisestamp.com%2Femail-install%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_campaign%3Dpromo_17>
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > On 3 December 2011 19:07, Andrew Pham <andrewpham74@> wrote:
              > >
              > > > **
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Alan,
              > > >
              > > > Excellent post! We are on the same page...
              > > >
              > > > Andrew
              > > >
              > > > Author of *Scrum in Action**, Agile Project Management and Development in
              > > > the Real-World*
              > > >
              > > > http://www.amazon.com/Scrum-Action-Andrew-Pham/dp/143545913X/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_
              > > > *1*<http://www.amazon.com/Scrum-Action-Andrew-Pham/dp/143545913X/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_1>
              > > > -1
              > > >
              > > > and of *"Business-Driven IT-Wide Agile (Scrum) and/or Kanban (Lean)
              > > > Implementation" **(reviewed and upcoming)*
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 11:57 AM, alshalloway <alshall@>wrote:
              > > >
              > > >> **
              > > >>
              > > >>
              > > >> I was asked this question by a viewer of my intro to kanban webinar.
              > > >>
              > > >> We are planning to use scrum with a pilot. Our company is small, so the
              > > >> scrum team is about 5 members. We cannot assign one person for Scrum Master
              > > >> and another one for Product Owner. Could we still apply scrum without Scrum
              > > >> Master?
              > > >>
              > > >> Do you have experiences in a similar scenario?
              > > >> ---------------------------------
              > > >>
              > > >> Yes, Scrum can still be used. In fact, Scrum is particularly useful for
              > > >> small teams like this. I would suggest reading The New New Product
              > > >> Development Game.
              > > >> http://www.sao.corvallis.or.us/drupal/files/The%20New%20New%20Product%20Development%20Game.pdf
              > > >> It is the article that inspired Scrum in the first place and provides
              > > >> great insights.
              > > >>
              > > >> I would suggest that the whoever is the current team lead now play the
              > > >> role of the Scrum Master (assuming it isn't the Product Owner as these two
              > > >> roles conflict at times.
              > > >>
              > > >> In my mind the role of the ScrumMaster is twofold:
              > > >> 1) help identify the challenges the team is having
              > > >> 2) do something about them
              > > >>
              > > >> The first requires the ability to step back and times and reflect. The
              > > >> standups and retrospections are supposed to do this, but, in my mind, are
              > > >> somewhat challenged in the ability to sustain this.
              > > >>
              > > >> A way to extend Scrum and lower the need of a ScrumMaster is to have
              > > >> explicit workflow policies so everybody knows the rules of the game so to
              > > >> speak of the team. These can change at any time, of course - and they will
              > > >> as you proceed down this path. This is a Kanban practice and is very
              > > >> valuable. If you further have this explicit workflow mirrored on the Scrum
              > > >> board (you now have a Kanban board) anyone on the team will easily see
              > > >> impacts. This somewhat diminishes the need for a ScrumMaster, but in my
              > > >> opinion, someone who acts as lead/coach of the team is always important.
              > > >>
              > > >> Hope this helps.
              > > >> Alan Shalloway
              > > >> CEO, Net Objectives
              > > >>
              > > >>
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
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