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Re: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum for OS development company

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  • Seyit Caglar Abbasoglu
    From what I ve seen, as a project/domain gets harder, that project benefits more from early/frequent feedback and continuous improvement. To setup and persist
    Message 1 of 23 , Oct 3, 2011
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      From what I've seen, as a project/domain gets harder, that project benefits more from early/frequent feedback and continuous improvement. To setup and persist an environment to maximize those benefits however, always requires patience, determination, courage and trust. IMO that's where most people fail (especially without proper guidance).
    • JoseS
      Pankaj, In my experience the challenge with Scrum is the user story. Non-application development efforts see them as artificial because of the emphasis on the
      Message 2 of 23 , Oct 3, 2011
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        Pankaj,

        In my experience the challenge with Scrum is the user story. Non-application development efforts see them as artificial because of the emphasis on the user ("as a user, I want to ... so that ...") There's no rule that says you MUST do it that way. The functionality can be decomposed and Scrum applied with no issues. The other push back is the short nature of the sprints. Again, decomposing the functionality will allow Scrum to be used.

        With that said, it is not always a welcomed approach. If you have a product development methodology (Scrum mixes both product and project methodologies) you want to use there's an Agile domain-agnostic approach that has been used in multiple domains (hardware, software when waterfall was required/forced/demanded by management, defense missile engineering, biomedical research and device development, education, education, manufacturing, construction, etc).

        It originated at Intel for their semiconductor design projects (see Timm Esque's book "No Surprises Project Management" for the story). It is based on commitments made by the team members (no different from Scrum) and regular planning and review cycles. Timm, his business partner, and I have agreed to call it Commitment-Based Project Management or CBPM for its focus on commitments.

        If interested let me know and I can provide details. You can also go to Timm's website (http://ensemblemc.com/) or my website (http://www.pmlead.com). There's also a LinkedIn group, "Project Acceleration thru Commitment-Based Project Management" where many PMs gather to exchange ideas.

        All the best,

        Jose Solera, PMP, CSM, CSPO

        --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Pankaj Gupta <synopsys_pankaj@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi,
        >
        > My seniors says that SCRUM is not�applicable�for OS development companies and it does work very well with Web based or for small product development(s).
        >
        > I'm interested to know the names of OS development companies who successfully implemented SCRUM.
        >
        > Thanks,
        > Pankaj
        >
      • jsutherland
        Your seniors don t know what is going on in the industry. Palm, as only one example, used Scrum for new OS development for the past five years. Jeff Sutherland
        Message 3 of 23 , Oct 4, 2011
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          Your seniors don't know what is going on in the industry. Palm, as only one example, used Scrum for new OS development for the past five years.

          Jeff Sutherland
          Co-Creator of Scrum

          --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Pankaj Gupta <synopsys_pankaj@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi,
          >
          > My seniors says that SCRUM is not applicable for OS development companies and it does work very well with Web based or for small product development(s).
          >
          > I'm interested to know the names of OS development companies who successfully implemented SCRUM.
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Pankaj
          >
        • Jack Harvey
          Jeff, Any good contacts with companies doing software, firmware and hardware using SCRUM? Cheers, Jack Harvey Contact me here: Email - jack@zoomommy.com Cell -
          Message 4 of 23 , Oct 4, 2011
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            Jeff,
             
            Any good contacts with companies doing software, firmware and hardware using SCRUM?
             
            Cheers,

            Jack Harvey
             
            Contact me here:
            Email - jack@...
            Cell - 865.244.8710
             
            Connect with me here:
             
             
             
            -------- Original Message --------
            Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Scrum for OS development company
            From: "jsutherland" <jeff.sutherland@...>
            Date: Tue, October 04, 2011 3:23 pm
            To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com

             
            Your seniors don't know what is going on in the industry. Palm, as only one example, used Scrum for new OS development for the past five years.

            Jeff Sutherland
            Co-Creator of Scrum

            --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Pankaj Gupta <synopsys_pankaj@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi,
            >
            > My seniors says that SCRUM is not applicable for OS development companies and it does work very well with Web based or for small product development(s).
            >
            > I'm interested to know the names of OS development companies who successfully implemented SCRUM.
            >
            > Thanks,
            > Pankaj
            >

          • woynam
            And look where Palm and PalmOS/WebOS are now! ;-) Joking aside, I would not use Palm as an example of the successful use of Scrum. They basically screwed
            Message 5 of 23 , Oct 5, 2011
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              And look where Palm and PalmOS/WebOS are now! ;-)

              Joking aside, I would not use Palm as an example of the "successful" use of Scrum. They basically screwed around for years with numerous Linux-based OS's, and the world passed them by.

              Mark

              --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "jsutherland" <jeff.sutherland@...> wrote:
              >
              > Your seniors don't know what is going on in the industry. Palm, as only one example, used Scrum for new OS development for the past five years.
              >
              > Jeff Sutherland
              > Co-Creator of Scrum
              >
              > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Pankaj Gupta <synopsys_pankaj@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi,
              > >
              > > My seniors says that SCRUM is not applicable for OS development companies and it does work very well with Web based or for small product development(s).
              > >
              > > I'm interested to know the names of OS development companies who successfully implemented SCRUM.
              > >
              > > Thanks,
              > > Pankaj
              > >
              >
            • Alan Dayley
              I have experience in those areas, Jack. Should we start a new thread or email directly? Alan
              Message 6 of 23 , Oct 5, 2011
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                I have experience in those areas, Jack. Should we start a new thread or email directly?

                Alan

                On Oct 4, 2011, at 2:45 PM, "Jack Harvey" <jack@...> wrote:

                 

                Jeff,
                 
                Any good contacts with companies doing software, firmware and hardware using SCRUM?
                 
                Cheers,

                Jack Harvey
                 
                Contact me here:
                Email - jack@...
                Cell - 865.244.8710
                 
                Connect with me here:
                 
                 
                 
                -------- Original Message --------
                Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Scrum for OS development company
                From: "jsutherland" <jeff.sutherland@...>
                Date: Tue, October 04, 2011 3:23 pm
                To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com

                 
                Your seniors don't know what is going on in the industry. Palm, as only one example, used Scrum for new OS development for the past five years.

                Jeff Sutherland
                Co-Creator of Scrum

                --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Pankaj Gupta <synopsys_pankaj@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi,
                >
                > My seniors says that SCRUM is not applicable for OS development companies and it does work very well with Web based or for small product development(s).
                >
                > I'm interested to know the names of OS development companies who successfully implemented SCRUM.
                >
                > Thanks,
                > Pankaj
                >

              • Michael Yip
                Assuming you are verse with Scrum, experienced in software development and use case approach to develop product/solution, I suggest you have a number of candid
                Message 7 of 23 , Oct 5, 2011
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                  Assuming you are verse with Scrum, experienced in software development and use case approach to develop product/solution, I suggest you have a number of candid conversations with your seniors and ask why won't it work. Keep asking why. I can guarantee all the answers contain "but" and they will come full circle back to poor leadership, culture, people, and organization.... nothing whatsoever to do with Scrum.

                  Michael



                  From: Pankaj Gupta <synopsys_pankaj@...>
                  To: "scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com" <scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 3:55 AM
                  Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum for OS development company

                   
                  OS = Operating System.

                  -Pankaj


                  From: Sean Corfield <seancorfield@...>
                  To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Wednesday, 28 September 2011 10:31 PM
                  Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum for OS development company

                   
                  On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 8:13 PM, Pankaj Gupta <synopsys_pankaj@...> wrote:
                  My seniors says that SCRUM is not applicable for OS development companies and it does work very well with Web based or for small product development(s).

                  OS = Operating System? Open Source? Off Shore?
                  -- 
                  Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
                  An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
                  World Singles, LLC. -- http://worldsingles.com/
                  Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://www.getrailo.com/

                  "Perfection is the enemy of the good."
                  -- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880)




                • Adam Sroka
                  OS development is hard, and Scrum is not a silver bullet. There are most likely several problems you need to solve, and it is likely that Scrum solves some but
                  Message 8 of 23 , Oct 5, 2011
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                    OS development is hard, and Scrum is not a silver bullet. There are most likely several problems you need to solve, and it is likely that Scrum solves some but not all of them.

                    However, it does not follow that Scrum will not work for you. You need to examine what you are doing and find small changes that will improve it, with or without Scrum.

                    On Sep 27, 2011 6:14 AM, "Pankaj Gupta" <synopsys_pankaj@...> wrote:
                    > Hi,
                    >
                    > My seniors says that SCRUM is not applicable for OS development companies and it does work very well with Web based or for small product development(s).
                    >
                    > I'm interested to know the names of OS development companies who successfully implemented SCRUM.
                    >
                    > Thanks,
                    > Pankaj
                  • extremeprogrammer
                    I haven t done OS development. I have done systems programming on a 13 year old system with about 10 million lines of code. I m not sure if that s similar, but
                    Message 9 of 23 , Oct 5, 2011
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                      I haven't done OS development. I have done systems programming on a 13 year old system with about 10 million lines of code. I'm not sure if that's similar, but I can't see any reason why Scrum would not work there.

                      I'd be interested to know which parts of Scrum are problematic for your seniors, e.g.

                      * Inspect / Adapt cycle
                      * Timeboxed iterations
                      * Small teams
                      * etc.

                      Regards,

                      Lance

                      --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Pankaj Gupta <synopsys_pankaj@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi,
                      >
                      > My seniors says that SCRUM is not applicable for OS development companies and it does work very well with Web based or for small product development(s).
                      >
                      > I'm interested to know the names of OS development companies who successfully implemented SCRUM.
                      >
                      > Thanks,
                      > Pankaj
                      >
                    • jsutherland
                      A partner of mine was asked to take a look at a 10 million lines of code system that was difficult to maintain. They determined that the functionality was so
                      Message 10 of 23 , Oct 6, 2011
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                        A partner of mine was asked to take a look at a 10 million lines of code system that was difficult to maintain. They determined that the functionality was so limited it actually needed only 100,000 lines of code. So they dumped 9,900,000 lines of code that was implemented in India over many years at high cost.

                        That's what happens when you look at these things from a Scrum point of view.

                        Jeff Sutherland

                        --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "extremeprogrammer" <LanceWalton@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I haven't done OS development. I have done systems programming on a 13 year old system with about 10 million lines of code. I'm not sure if that's similar, but I can't see any reason why Scrum would not work there.
                        >
                        > I'd be interested to know which parts of Scrum are problematic for your seniors, e.g.
                        >
                        > * Inspect / Adapt cycle
                        > * Timeboxed iterations
                        > * Small teams
                        > * etc.
                        >
                        > Regards,
                        >
                        > Lance
                        >
                        > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Pankaj Gupta <synopsys_pankaj@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hi,
                        > >
                        > > My seniors says that SCRUM is not applicable for OS development companies and it does work very well with Web based or for small product development(s).
                        > >
                        > > I'm interested to know the names of OS development companies who successfully implemented SCRUM.
                        > >
                        > > Thanks,
                        > > Pankaj
                        > >
                        >
                      • Steven
                        I know there are people developing OS kernel modules with TDD. I don t see why Scrum cannot apply in such case.
                        Message 11 of 23 , Oct 12, 2011
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                          I know there are people developing OS kernel modules with TDD. I don't see why Scrum cannot apply in such case.

                          --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Pankaj Gupta <synopsys_pankaj@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi,
                          >
                          > My seniors says that SCRUM is not applicable for OS development companies and it does work very well with Web based or for small product development(s).
                          >
                          > I'm interested to know the names of OS development companies who successfully implemented SCRUM.
                          >
                          > Thanks,
                          > Pankaj
                          >
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