Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Scrum failed here. A real Scrum Story

Expand Messages
  • ashish_wrt
    http://www.bringingagility.com/a-scrum-story/ Please provide your valuable comments on blog itself.
    Message 1 of 15 , Sep 29 10:27 PM
    • 0 Attachment
      http://www.bringingagility.com/a-scrum-story/


      Please provide your valuable comments on blog itself.
    • Bob
      Hi Ashish, The situation you identify with the PO not communicating with the customer(s) is familiar. We ultimately invited the Pre-Sales team, Sales Team,
      Message 2 of 15 , Sep 30 2:32 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Ashish,

        The situation you identify with the PO not communicating with the customer(s) is familiar. We ultimately invited the Pre-Sales team, Sales Team, Product Support, and the senior product architects to our sprint reviews to mitigate the risks of having only a PO there. (It wasn't practical to get actual customers into the review.) Your point about getting the product into a beta testing environment is spot on - it will again help mitigate the risks of developing a product no one wants to buy.

        I think the aftermath of this experience, how the company coped, would be instructive; an example for everyone on the consequences of not involving the customer throughout the project.

        Bob Boyd
        http://implementingagile.blogspot.com/


        --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "ashish_wrt" <traderashish@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > http://www.bringingagility.com/a-scrum-story/
        >
        >
        > Please provide your valuable comments on blog itself.
        >
      • David Starr
        Scrum didn t fail. People failed to use Scrum well. Scrum can t fail, in fact. Niether can RUP, Kanban, or the rules of monopoly. People can fail when using
        Message 3 of 15 , Oct 7, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          Scrum didn't fail. People failed to use Scrum well. Scrum can't fail, in fact. Niether can RUP, Kanban, or the rules of monopoly. People can fail when using these tools, though.

          David Starr
          Scrum.orgImproving the Profession of Software Development
          Blog: elegantcode.com | @elegantcoder




          On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 3:32 AM, Bob <bobbatemansbay@...> wrote:
           



          Hi Ashish,

          The situation you identify with the PO not communicating with the customer(s) is familiar. We ultimately invited the Pre-Sales team, Sales Team, Product Support, and the senior product architects to our sprint reviews to mitigate the risks of having only a PO there. (It wasn't practical to get actual customers into the review.) Your point about getting the product into a beta testing environment is spot on - it will again help mitigate the risks of developing a product no one wants to buy.

          I think the aftermath of this experience, how the company coped, would be instructive; an example for everyone on the consequences of not involving the customer throughout the project.

          Bob Boyd
          http://implementingagile.blogspot.com/



          --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "ashish_wrt" <traderashish@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > http://www.bringingagility.com/a-scrum-story/
          >
          >
          > Please provide your valuable comments on blog itself.
          >


        • Malcolm Anderson
          Yep, The product owner got the product he asked for and no one above him was consulted. Bottom line, Scrum did what it was designed to do. The implicit
          Message 4 of 15 , Oct 7, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            Yep,

            The product owner got the product he asked for and no one above him was consulted.

            Bottom line, Scrum did what it was designed to do.  The implicit expectations in the complaint would be interesting to catalog.

            --

            Malcolm Anderson
            Scrum Coach & Agile Engineer






            On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 10:58 AM, David Starr <david@...> wrote:
             

            Scrum didn't fail. People failed to use Scrum well. Scrum can't fail, in fact. Niether can RUP, Kanban, or the rules of monopoly. People can fail when using these tools, though.


            David Starr
            Scrum.orgImproving the Profession of Software Development
            Blog: elegantcode.com | @elegantcoder




            On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 3:32 AM, Bob <bobbatemansbay@...> wrote:
             



            Hi Ashish,

            The situation you identify with the PO not communicating with the customer(s) is familiar. We ultimately invited the Pre-Sales team, Sales Team, Product Support, and the senior product architects to our sprint reviews to mitigate the risks of having only a PO there. (It wasn't practical to get actual customers into the review.) Your point about getting the product into a beta testing environment is spot on - it will again help mitigate the risks of developing a product no one wants to buy.

            I think the aftermath of this experience, how the company coped, would be instructive; an example for everyone on the consequences of not involving the customer throughout the project.

            Bob Boyd
            http://implementingagile.blogspot.com/



            --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "ashish_wrt" <traderashish@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > http://www.bringingagility.com/a-scrum-story/
            >
            >
            > Please provide your valuable comments on blog itself.
            >




          • George Dinwiddie
            ... Scrum is a development framework, not a business management framework. I think that saying “Scrum failed” is somewhat disingenuous sensationalism. In
            Message 5 of 15 , Oct 7, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              On 9/30/11 1:27 AM, ashish_wrt wrote:
              >
              > http://www.bringingagility.com/a-scrum-story/

              Scrum is a development framework, not a business management framework. I
              think that saying “Scrum failed” is somewhat disingenuous sensationalism.

              In the description, the development team tested their assumptions and
              work by showing the result to the Product Owner. The PO did not test his
              assumptions and work with real users. This is a common enough problem
              that people have gathered under the banner of “Lean Startup” to address
              it for fledgling companies where the failure will not just be of the
              product, but of the company itself. Larger companies can take advantage
              of the same techniques, of course. They just have to get out of their
              comfortable bureaucracies and base their decisions on experiments.

              - George

              --
              ----------------------------------------------------------------------
              * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
              Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
              Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
              ----------------------------------------------------------------------
            • Michael James
              ... We are seeing a lot of self-proclaimed experts writing articles (and now books, apparently) without having a basic understanding of Scrum. I guess this is
              Message 6 of 15 , Oct 7, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                On Oct 7, 2011, at 11:45 AM, Malcolm Anderson wrote:

                Bottom line, Scrum did what it was designed to do.  The implicit expectations in the complaint would be interesting to catalog.

                We are seeing a lot of self-proclaimed experts writing articles (and now books, apparently) without having a basic understanding of Scrum.  I guess this is partly our fault for not measuring knowledge in our classes.

                Ken uses a shorter story about a Product Owner making questionable decisions to illustrate the same point.  What Scrum *does* do is make these decisions visible.  As a ScrumMaster I'd usually advise stakeholders attend the Sprint Review Meetings (and usually not the daily meetings, BTW) so anyone who has a problem with the Product Owner's decisions can take whatever action they're going to take sooner.

                --mj

              • Peter Stevens
                On 07.10.11 22:09, Michael James wrote:    As a ScrumMaster I d usually advise stakeholders attend the Sprint Review Meetings so anyone who has a problem
                Message 7 of 15 , Oct 7, 2011
                • 0 Attachment
                  On 07.10.11 22:09, Michael James wrote:  
                   As a ScrumMaster I'd usually advise stakeholders attend the Sprint Review Meetings so anyone who has a problem with the Product Owner's decisions can take whatever action they're going to take sooner.

                  --mj


                  +1

                  Wish I'd said it myself!


                  -- 
                  Peter Stevens
                  Scrum Trainer & Coach
                  
                  Switzerland: direct: +41 44 586 6450     cell: +41 79 422 6722
                  USA:         direct: +1 202 657 6450 
                  World:       skype:  peterstev
                  
                  blog:        http://scrum-breakfast.com
                  
                • Michael James
                  ... Yeah, me too. It s actually right here in _Agile Project Management with Scrum_: ...at which the Team demonstrates to the Product Owner and any other
                  Message 8 of 15 , Oct 7, 2011
                  • 0 Attachment
                    On Oct 7, 2011, at 1:38 PM, Peter Stevens wrote:

                    > On 07.10.11 22:09, Michael James wrote:
                    >
                    >>
                    >> As a ScrumMaster I'd usually advise stakeholders attend the Sprint Review Meetings so anyone who has a problem with the Product Owner's decisions can take whatever action they're going to take sooner.
                    >>
                    >> --mj
                    >>
                    >
                    > +1
                    >
                    > Wish I'd said it myself!

                    Yeah, me too. It's actually right here in _Agile Project Management with Scrum_: "...at which the Team demonstrates to the Product Owner and any other interested parties what it was able to accomplish during the Sprint. Only completed product functionality can be demonstrated."

                    So I'd want to explore why the other interested parties weren't brought to the Sprint Review Meeting.

                    --mj
                  • Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSM PSM I
                    Ashish, Scrum didn t fail your company.  Your company failed at Scrum. Specifically, your Sprint Review, as you described it, was not correct, and is a Scrum
                    Message 9 of 15 , Oct 7, 2011
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Ashish,

                      Scrum didn't fail your company.  Your company failed at Scrum.

                      Specifically, your Sprint Review, as you described it, was not correct, and is a Scrum Worst Practice.  I have documented the Worst Practice here:

                      http://www.scrumcrazy.com/Worst+Practice+-+The+Sprint+Review+as+a+Signoff+Meeting

                      Having said that, you can still have a product failure if the PO and stakeholder roles are played poorly.  However, having the PO and at least a few stakeholders present and contributing/collaborating at a Sprint Review greatly reduces the chances of total catastrophic failure.

                       
                      -------
                      Charles Bradley, CSM, PSM I
                      Experienced Scrum Coach
                      My blog: http://scrumcrazy.wordpress.com/

                      From: ashish_wrt <traderashish@...>
                      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 11:27 PM
                      Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum failed here. A real Scrum Story


                      http://www.bringingagility.com/a-scrum-story/


                      Please provide your valuable comments on blog itself.





                      ------------------------------------

                      To Post a message, send it to:  scrumdevelopment@...
                      To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links

                      <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scrumdevelopment/

                      <*> Your email settings:
                          Individual Email | Traditional

                      <*> To change settings online go to:
                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scrumdevelopment/join
                          (Yahoo! ID required)

                      <*> To change settings via email:
                          scrumdevelopment-digest@yahoogroups.com
                          scrumdevelopment-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

                      <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                      <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



                    • Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSM PSM I
                      Ashish, I also noticed from your story that you did a big bang delivery, which is a poor habit in Scrum.  In your defense, though, I think this is a weak spot
                      Message 10 of 15 , Oct 7, 2011
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Ashish,

                        I also noticed from your story that you did a big bang delivery, which is a poor habit in Scrum.  In your defense, though, I think this is a weak spot in the Scrum Guide.  The Scrum Guide speaks of software as being "releasable", but doesn't say that it should be released fairly frequently. 

                        IMO, the SG should state something like:

                        "Releases(new increments of functionality available for use by users) should occur at least a few times a year, and it should be well noted that for every month that goes by where a product is not released, transparency decreases, and thus, inspection and adaptation opportunities are missed."
                         
                        -------
                        Charles Bradley, CSM, PSM I
                        Experienced Scrum Coach
                        My blog: http://scrumcrazy.wordpress.com/

                        From: ashish_wrt <traderashish@...>
                        To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 11:27 PM
                        Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum failed here. A real Scrum Story


                        http://www.bringingagility.com/a-scrum-story/


                        Please provide your valuable comments on blog itself.





                        ------------------------------------

                        To Post a message, send it to:  scrumdevelopment@...
                        To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links

                        <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scrumdevelopment/

                        <*> Your email settings:
                            Individual Email | Traditional

                        <*> To change settings online go to:
                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scrumdevelopment/join
                            (Yahoo! ID required)

                        <*> To change settings via email:
                            scrumdevelopment-digest@yahoogroups.com
                            scrumdevelopment-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

                        <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                        <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



                      • David Starr
                        This is going off topic, but maybe its worth it. The SG would never advocate for how often to actually provide customers with product. That is a business
                        Message 11 of 15 , Oct 8, 2011
                        • 0 Attachment
                          This is going off topic, but maybe its worth it.

                          The SG would never advocate for how often to actually provide customers with product. That is a business decision and beyond the scope of Scrum. Scrum does require that a version of software that we MAY choose to release is available if the PO decides to do so.



                          David Starr
                          Scrum.orgImproving the Profession of Software Development
                          Blog: elegantcode.com | @elegantcoder




                          On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 11:15 PM, Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSM PSM I <chuck-lists2@...> wrote:
                           

                          Ashish,

                          I also noticed from your story that you did a big bang delivery, which is a poor habit in Scrum.  In your defense, though, I think this is a weak spot in the Scrum Guide.  The Scrum Guide speaks of software as being "releasable", but doesn't say that it should be released fairly frequently. 

                          IMO, the SG should state something like:

                          "Releases(new increments of functionality available for use by users) should occur at least a few times a year, and it should be well noted that for every month that goes by where a product is not released, transparency decreases, and thus, inspection and adaptation opportunities are missed."
                           
                          -------
                          Charles Bradley, CSM, PSM I
                          Experienced Scrum Coach
                          My blog: http://scrumcrazy.wordpress.com/

                          From: ashish_wrt <traderashish@...>
                          To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 11:27 PM
                          Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum failed here. A real Scrum Story


                          http://www.bringingagility.com/a-scrum-story/


                          Please provide your valuable comments on blog itself.





                          ------------------------------------


                          To Post a message, send it to:  scrumdevelopment@...
                          To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links

                          <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scrumdevelopment/

                          <*> Your email settings:
                              Individual Email | Traditional

                          <*> To change settings online go to:
                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scrumdevelopment/join
                              (Yahoo! ID required)

                          <*> To change settings via email:
                              scrumdevelopment-digest@yahoogroups.com
                              scrumdevelopment-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

                          <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                              scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                          <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




                        • ashish_wrt
                          Thank you everyone for your responses. Here is my follow up post on same topic, http://www.bringingagility.com/quality-of-feedback-is-very-important/ I am
                          Message 12 of 15 , Oct 8, 2011
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Thank you everyone for your responses. Here is my follow up post on same topic,


                            http://www.bringingagility.com/quality-of-feedback-is-very-important/


                            I am Agile practitioner with over decade of agile experience.

                            from "About Me" on my Blog,

                            As a practitioner, I believe in all processes whether Scrum, XP, Kanban or any other â€" as each was created based on experiences, conditions and needs of people who created them - different than what I have now. I strive to understand each deeply and then borrow, adapt, innovate and apply the practices that works best for me and my customers.

                            “Our highest priority is to satisfy the customer through early and continuous delivery of valuable and high quality software.” while building a highly motivated and high performance team to accomplish it. (Language adapted from Agile Manifesto)


                            Ashish Gupta


                            --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "ashish_wrt" <traderashish@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > http://www.bringingagility.com/a-scrum-story/
                            >
                            >
                            > Please provide your valuable comments on blog itself.
                            >
                          • Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSM PSM I
                            I think maybe it should.  It would seem that Scrum and Agile are a bit at odds on this topic: Our highest priority is to satisfy the customer through early
                            Message 13 of 15 , Oct 13, 2011
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I think maybe it should.  It would seem that Scrum and Agile are a bit at odds on this topic:

                              "Our highest priority is to satisfy the customer through early and continuous delivery of valuable software. "

                              I can certainly propose it  as a pattern or change through the new Scrum community process, but I have much higher priority proposals. :-)
                               
                              -------
                              Charles Bradley, CSM, PSM I
                              Experienced Scrum Coach
                              My blog: http://scrumcrazy.wordpress.com/

                              From: David Starr <david@...>
                              To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Saturday, October 8, 2011 12:42 PM
                              Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum failed here. A real Scrum Story



                              This is going off topic, but maybe its worth it.

                              The SG would never advocate for how often to actually provide customers with product. That is a business decision and beyond the scope of Scrum. Scrum does require that a version of software that we MAY choose to release is available if the PO decides to do so.



                              David Starr
                              Scrum.orgImproving the Profession of Software Development
                              Blog: elegantcode.com | @elegantcoder




                              On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 11:15 PM, Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSM PSM I <chuck-lists2@...> wrote:
                               
                              Ashish,

                              I also noticed from your story that you did a big bang delivery, which is a poor habit in Scrum.  In your defense, though, I think this is a weak spot in the Scrum Guide.  The Scrum Guide speaks of software as being "releasable", but doesn't say that it should be released fairly frequently. 

                              IMO, the SG should state something like:

                              "Releases(new increments of functionality available for use by users) should occur at least a few times a year, and it should be well noted that for every month that goes by where a product is not released, transparency decreases, and thus, inspection and adaptation opportunities are missed."
                               
                              -------
                              Charles Bradley, CSM, PSM I
                              Experienced Scrum Coach
                              My blog: http://scrumcrazy.wordpress.com/

                              From: ashish_wrt <traderashish@...>
                              To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 11:27 PM
                              Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum failed here. A real Scrum Story


                              http://www.bringingagility.com/a-scrum-story/


                              Please provide your valuable comments on blog itself.





                              ------------------------------------


                              To Post a message, send it to:  scrumdevelopment@...
                              To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links

                              <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scrumdevelopment/

                              <*> Your email settings:
                                  Individual Email | Traditional

                              <*> To change settings online go to:
                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scrumdevelopment/join
                                  (Yahoo! ID required)

                              <*> To change settings via email:
                                  scrumdevelopment-digest@yahoogroups.com
                                  scrumdevelopment-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

                              <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                  scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                              <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/








                            • Adam Sroka
                              Early and continuous change is how you build and maintain the kind of close and meaningful relationship with customers that Agile clearly implies. Do you
                              Message 14 of 15 , Oct 13, 2011
                              • 0 Attachment

                                Early and continuous change is how you build and maintain the kind of close and meaningful relationship with customers that Agile clearly implies. Do you really have things that are a higher priority than that? Would your customers agree it was a higher priority?

                                On Oct 13, 2011 2:04 PM, "Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSM PSM I" <chuck-lists2@...> wrote:
                                 

                                I think maybe it should.  It would seem that Scrum and Agile are a bit at odds on this topic:

                                "Our highest priority is to satisfy the customer through early and continuous delivery of valuable software. "

                                I can certainly propose it  as a pattern or change through the new Scrum community process, but I have much higher priority proposals. :-)
                                 
                                -------
                                Charles Bradley, CSM, PSM I
                                Experienced Scrum Coach
                                My blog: http://scrumcrazy.wordpress.com/

                                From: David Starr <david@...>
                                To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Saturday, October 8, 2011 12:42 PM
                                Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum failed here. A real Scrum Story



                                This is going off topic, but maybe its worth it.

                                The SG would never advocate for how often to actually provide customers with product. That is a business decision and beyond the scope of Scrum. Scrum does require that a version of software that we MAY choose to release is available if the PO decides to do so.



                                David Starr
                                Scrum.orgImproving the Profession of Software Development
                                Blog: elegantcode.com | @elegantcoder




                                On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 11:15 PM, Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSM PSM I <chuck-lists2@...> wrote:
                                 
                                Ashish,

                                I also noticed from your story that you did a big bang delivery, which is a poor habit in Scrum.  In your defense, though, I think this is a weak spot in the Scrum Guide.  The Scrum Guide speaks of software as being "releasable", but doesn't say that it should be released fairly frequently. 

                                IMO, the SG should state something like:

                                "Releases(new increments of functionality available for use by users) should occur at least a few times a year, and it should be well noted that for every month that goes by where a product is not released, transparency decreases, and thus, inspection and adaptation opportunities are missed."
                                 
                                -------
                                Charles Bradley, CSM, PSM I
                                Experienced Scrum Coach
                                My blog: http://scrumcrazy.wordpress.com/

                                From: ashish_wrt <traderashish@...>
                                To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 11:27 PM
                                Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum failed here. A real Scrum Story


                                http://www.bringingagility.com/a-scrum-story/


                                Please provide your valuable comments on blog itself.





                                ------------------------------------


                                To Post a message, send it to:  scrumdevelopment@...
                                To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links

                                <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scrumdevelopment/

                                <*> Your email settings:
                                    Individual Email | Traditional

                                <*> To change settings online go to:
                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scrumdevelopment/join
                                    (Yahoo! ID required)

                                <*> To change settings via email:
                                    scrumdevelopment-digest@yahoogroups.com
                                    scrumdevelopment-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

                                <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                                <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/








                              • ashish_wrt
                                Thank you everyone for your valuable comments. They gave me very good perspective. Here are the two posts suggesting the solutions. Please give your comments
                                Message 15 of 15 , Oct 14, 2011
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Thank you everyone for your valuable comments. They gave me very good perspective. Here are the two posts suggesting the solutions. Please give your comments in the Blog itself.


                                  http://www.bringingagility.com/building-software-users-want/

                                  http://www.bringingagility.com/quality-of-feedback-is-very-important/



                                  regards
                                  Ashish

                                  --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "ashish_wrt" <traderashish@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > http://www.bringingagility.com/a-scrum-story/
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Please provide your valuable comments on blog itself.
                                  >
                                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.