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Agile testing

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  • Riju Kansal
    Hi, I have been given an opportunity to present a session on agile testing to a group of QA people. Some background about myself. I am also a QA in my present
    Message 1 of 6 , Sep 28, 2011
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      Hi,

      I have been given an opportunity to present a session on agile testing to a group of QA people. 

      Some background about myself. I am also a QA in my present role but have worked in agile scrum teams as a developer, QA and SM. I am also a CSM. 

      I want to utilise this opportunity to present to QA group who are working in highly waterfall environment, a really convincing case or details abt working in agile teams. What r the various Qs I can expect? They all are from the world of QA sign offs. 

      But we have 3 new projects which have started using scrum since last 3-4 weeks. 

      So I want to request help from this community for ideas and learnings and maybe some pointers to good info/material which I can use for this session (to infect people with agile) I have next week. 

      Thanks in advance. 
      Riju VK
    • Malcolm Anderson
      Riju One of the biggest gains for QA folks moving to Scrum is an increase importance of their role. As an irresponsible generalization developers create and
      Message 2 of 6 , Sep 29, 2011
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        Riju

        One of the biggest gains for QA folks moving to Scrum is an increase importance of their role.

        As an irresponsible generalization developers create and testers destroy.
        Developers need to learn to ask themselves the question, "how is someone going to break this?"  Testers can teach this to developers.

        Testers can get involved in the design process and have their test plans roughed out before development begins.
        This often leads to better designs because in a waterfall shop, the first time QA sees the design is often too late to do anything about design flaws.

        Testers also quickly become the trusted lieutenants of the product owner who begin to say, "It's done if QA-John says it's done"

        On the other hand, testers have to learn to be partners in the development process.  I have seen testers who didn't want to help developers because the needed to find bugs to justify their position, and how can they do that if the developers kill all the bugs before it gets to integration testing?

        Also, testers have gotten used to being the last bastion of quality and will sometimes fight to the death that the product can't be released tomorrow, until the spelling mistake on a button is fixed, while at the same time insisting that they (the testing department) have 2 weeks to test and certify the product after the change of spelling has been implemented.

        Be warned that some testers will view this whole agile practice as a bad thing because it exposes them to accountability that they have never before been exposed to. 

        Also, QA managers will sometimes fight an agile adoption because they believe that it will threaten their job.  This can be a valid fear in certain organizations. 

        I hope that list will be helpful in getting you started.


        Does anyone else have any Waterfall-QA-Dev-Release-Nightmare-Stories to share?

        --

        Malcolm Anderson
        Scrum Coach & Agile Engineer




        On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 5:54 PM, Riju Kansal <riju.kansal@...> wrote:
         

        Hi,

        I have been given an opportunity to present a session on agile testing to a group of QA people. 

        Some background about myself. I am also a QA in my present role but have worked in agile scrum teams as a developer, QA and SM. I am also a CSM. 

        I want to utilise this opportunity to present to QA group who are working in highly waterfall environment, a really convincing case or details abt working in agile teams. What r the various Qs I can expect? They all are from the world of QA sign offs. 

        But we have 3 new projects which have started using scrum since last 3-4 weeks. 

        So I want to request help from this community for ideas and learnings and maybe some pointers to good info/material which I can use for this session (to infect people with agile) I have next week. 

        Thanks in advance. 
        Riju VK



      • Kiran Badi
        I agree with Malcolm.If I have to say it in one line, you have smart enough to know when to pull and when to push and this applies to all stakeholders. Also
        Message 3 of 6 , Sep 30, 2011
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          I agree with Malcolm.If I have to say it in one line, you have smart enough to know when to pull and when to push and this applies to all stakeholders.

          Also Just ensure that they often ask, why,where, when ,and how , if they are not asking this, then you can safely assume you will be working in thrilling project which you will always remember forever.

          On 9/30/2011 5:05 AM, Malcolm Anderson wrote:  

          Riju

          One of the biggest gains for QA folks moving to Scrum is an increase importance of their role.

          As an irresponsible generalization developers create and testers destroy.
          Developers need to learn to ask themselves the question, "how is someone going to break this?"  Testers can teach this to developers.

          Testers can get involved in the design process and have their test plans roughed out before development begins.
          This often leads to better designs because in a waterfall shop, the first time QA sees the design is often too late to do anything about design flaws.

          Testers also quickly become the trusted lieutenants of the product owner who begin to say, "It's done if QA-John says it's done"

          On the other hand, testers have to learn to be partners in the development process.  I have seen testers who didn't want to help developers because the needed to find bugs to justify their position, and how can they do that if the developers kill all the bugs before it gets to integration testing?

          Also, testers have gotten used to being the last bastion of quality and will sometimes fight to the death that the product can't be released tomorrow, until the spelling mistake on a button is fixed, while at the same time insisting that they (the testing department) have 2 weeks to test and certify the product after the change of spelling has been implemented.

          Be warned that some testers will view this whole agile practice as a bad thing because it exposes them to accountability that they have never before been exposed to. 

          Also, QA managers will sometimes fight an agile adoption because they believe that it will threaten their job.  This can be a valid fear in certain organizations. 

          I hope that list will be helpful in getting you started.


          Does anyone else have any Waterfall-QA-Dev-Release-Nightmare-Stories to share?

          --

          Malcolm Anderson
          Scrum Coach & Agile Engineer




          On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 5:54 PM, Riju Kansal <riju.kansal@...> wrote:
           
          Hi,

          I have been given an opportunity to present a session on agile testing to a group of QA people. 

          Some background about myself. I am also a QA in my present role but have worked in agile scrum teams as a developer, QA and SM. I am also a CSM. 

          I want to utilise this opportunity to present to QA group who are working in highly waterfall environment, a really convincing case or details abt working in agile teams. What r the various Qs I can expect? They all are from the world of QA sign offs. 

          But we have 3 new projects which have started using scrum since last 3-4 weeks. 

          So I want to request help from this community for ideas and learnings and maybe some pointers to good info/material which I can use for this session (to infect people with agile) I have next week. 

          Thanks in advance. 
          Riju VK



        • Riju Kansal
          Thank you Malcolm and Kiran for your thoughtful responses. It was a wonderful session and I m quite sure it infected a few people from the group with positive
          Message 4 of 6 , Oct 15, 2011
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            Thank you Malcolm and Kiran for your thoughtful responses. It was a wonderful session and I'm quite sure it infected a few people from the group with positive aspects of agile way of working. And going forward if anyone from the group gets an opportunity to work in agile way they already have a preview. We have also invited them to visit our team's daily scrums or retrospective meetings.

            Do have a look at the presentation i have shared below:

            Thanks once again.
            -Riju VK
          • Malcolm Anderson
            Glad to help. Was there any audio recording of the session? Thanks Malcolm -- Malcolm Anderson Scrum Coach & Agile Engineer
            Message 5 of 6 , Oct 15, 2011
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              Glad to help.

              Was there any audio recording of the session?

              Thanks

              Malcolm

              --

              Malcolm Anderson
              Scrum Coach & Agile Engineer






              On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 9:15 PM, Riju Kansal <riju.kansal@...> wrote:
               

              Thank you Malcolm and Kiran for your thoughtful responses. It was a wonderful session and I'm quite sure it infected a few people from the group with positive aspects of agile way of working. And going forward if anyone from the group gets an opportunity to work in agile way they already have a preview. We have also invited them to visit our team's daily scrums or retrospective meetings.


              Do have a look at the presentation i have shared below:

              Thanks once again.
              -Riju VK



            • Riju Kansal
              No there wasn t. But a learning for me to do it from next time. Thanks, Riju VK
              Message 6 of 6 , Oct 16, 2011
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                No there wasn't. But a learning for me to do it from next time. 

                Thanks,
                Riju VK

                On 16 Oct 2011, at 14:59, Malcolm Anderson <malcolm.b.anderson@...> wrote:

                 

                Glad to help.

                Was there any audio recording of the session?

                Thanks

                Malcolm

                --

                Malcolm Anderson
                Scrum Coach & Agile Engineer






                On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 9:15 PM, Riju Kansal <riju.kansal@...> wrote:
                 

                Thank you Malcolm and Kiran for your thoughtful responses. It was a wonderful session and I'm quite sure it infected a few people from the group with positive aspects of agile way of working. And going forward if anyone from the group gets an opportunity to work in agile way they already have a preview. We have also invited them to visit our team's daily scrums or retrospective meetings.


                Do have a look at the presentation i have shared below:

                Thanks once again.
                -Riju VK



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