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RE: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Scrum and Business Analysts

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  • Steven Gordon
    There does not have to be walls. The customer provides a one-paragraph story, not some multi-page detailed requirements specification. Then the appropriate
    Message 1 of 94 , Nov 5, 2004
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      There does not have to be walls.
       
      The customer provides a one-paragraph story, not some multi-page detailed requirements
      specification. Then the appropriate developer(s) and customer(s) (and perhaps some SMEs)
      have a collaborative discussion to reach a mutual understanding of what the customer needs. 
      When the developers have questions, they ask the customer instead of consulting some
      document.  When the developers have something working, they ask the customer(s) for
      feedback instead of blindly validating it against some document.
       
      People are free to come up with their own ideas, but they should collaborate together on the
      final product, not just throw stuff over the wall.  Together we have more information and ideas
      to figure out the best alternatives.
       
      -----Original Message-----
      From: todd [mailto:todd@...]
      Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 10:00 AM
      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Scrum and Business Analysts


      Steven Gordon wrote:

      > The key point is that it is NOT a different group of people
      > participating in those other
      > phases throwing stuff over the wall to the developers.
      >
      > When you start talking about distinct roles like BAs or QAs working in
      > relative isolation
      > from the development team, you are moving away from what makes Scrum
      > work better
      > than the traditional phasistic approaches.

      It seems there is always a wall though. The customer before coding
      starts figures out what they
      want and tosses that over the wall in the form of user stories or
      whatever. The developer
      is seen as the consumer of these inputs, yet the inputs need to be
      generated. If those inputs
      aren't in a form that are more or less directly codeable then you have
      stalled development.

      Who on the customer side is helping figure things out? Isn't the
      customer team a parallel
      organization to development that could include BAs and temporary
      assignments of
      developers?

    • Ron Jeffries
      For the record: I am not acknowledging plariarism in XP s Planning Game (nor am I asserting it in XBreed). I think the entire topic of plagiarism is bogus,
      Message 94 of 94 , Nov 12, 2004
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        For the record: I am not acknowledging plariarism in XP's Planning Game
        (nor am I asserting it in XBreed). I think the entire topic of plagiarism
        is bogus, divisive, unproductive and wrong.

        My sole mission in entering the Scrum != XP topic was to point out that
        there is but one elephant here. It is not productive to choose practices
        based on whether or not they are part of Scrum or XP or Crystal.

        As for plagiarism,

        "Not only does I deny the allegation, I denies the alligator".

        Ron Jeffries
        www.XProgramming.com
        You can observe a lot by watching. --Yogi Berra

        On Friday, November 12, 2004, at 1:12:37 AM, Mike Beedle wrote:

        > Thank you for your honesty and fairness in the acknowledgement of plagiarism
        > from the XP community -

        > this means a lot to us scrummers, since both, honesty and fairness are part
        > of our core values.



        > Honesty and fairness make the fertile ground that will allow us to get
        > *unity* in the growing

        > Agile Community of the future.



        > Also, your ability to see from someone else's perspective; and your ability
        > to understand "deep issues"

        > without bailing out on bogus arguments is what convinced me of your
        > leadership abilities.



        > I only now get to really know and understand who you are - thank you, you
        > have opened my eyes

        > to a new level of "understanding",

        End quotation from Mike Beedle, on Friday, November 12, 2004, at 1:12:37 AM
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