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Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Scrum and Business Analysts

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  • Boris Gloger
    Hello, I have a very bad feeling by reading this comment - I read all the time planning , be better informed ; better decisions ; planning upfront ; we
    Message 1 of 94 , Nov 4 2:52 AM
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      I have a very bad feeling by reading this comment - I read all the
      time "planning", "be better informed"; "better decisions"; "planning
      upfront" ; "we poorly planned the Sprint, we had inadequate analysis
      and understanding of the Sprint backlog items", ....

      A Sprint Planning is a conversation of involved people about the
      deliverables they want to deliver at the end of the Sprint. A Sprint
      Planning is NOT the planning of a sprint. We do not plan, what we need
      to do but we identify what needs to be done. We do not plan when it
      needs to be done but how it will be done.

      So it is about co-ordination of people not about planning of people.
      And again, and again and again ----

      What the hell is an "inadequate analysis" who decides this? When is
      this decided? A sprint plannning meeting is timeboxed to 4hrs - so it
      is not possible to make a detailed analysis. To create a detailed
      analysis upfront means to jeoperdize the whole process. Shall we
      involve the whole team to do the analysis - or only the business
      analyst - so the business analyst will DEFINE what needs to be done?
      She knows all about estimates.....

      If you want to have my opinion about what the role of the business
      analyst might be .... he is the project owner/the proxy customer - or
      he is the one who explaines during the development phase the business


      On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 09:35:57 -0000, scrummasterbob
      <developer@...> wrote:
      > After completing a successful Scrum based development project our
      > team had a bit of an introspective about how and why Scrum worked
      > and out of this came some interesting thoughts.
      > Our organisation is of a similar composition to the one you describe
      > and we approached the project with a combined business
      > analyst/project manager, 3 developers with testers and business
      > domain experts supplied by the client.
      > One of the problems we identified was the inconsistency in how the
      > BA (and team in general) was utilised by having the Sprint planning
      > and analysis starting at the beginning of the Sprint. My blog post
      > (http://blogs.conchango.com/jamessimmonds/archive/2004/10/28/148.aspx
      > ) details this issue and a possible resolution - that of moving the
      > Sprint planning and initial analysis of the Sprint backlog to mid
      > way into the previous Sprint.
      > This allows the team to be better informed about the Sprint backlog
      > and make a better decision as to what items the team commit to
      > building in the Sprint. The BA's utilisation is more consistent as
      > they are busy all the time with 2 weeks of Sprint planning then 2
      > weeks of clarification and working closely with the development team
      > and business to resolve any issues.
      > Another point I must make is that it is all too easy to fall into a
      > waterfall approach within the Sprint - we fell for this in one of
      > our Sprints and it was terrible! We quickly identified in the Sprint
      > review that this should never happen again.
      > The prime reason I believe that we reverted to a waterfall in the
      > Sprint was because we poorly planned the Sprint, we had inadequate
      > analysis and understanding of the Sprint backlog items. This I
      > believe is a consequence of the pressure to get the team coding and
      > productive. Once our understanding of the work grew we realised we
      > had over committed ourselves but by then we were mid Sprint and
      > under vast pressure to deliver all this work (more as a pride
      > issue). Testing got pushed to the end of the Sprint as we continued
      > to code away and as a consequence the overall quality suffered.
      > So to summarise,
      > There is a role for BA's and I believe with a small adjustment to
      > how and when they are utilised they provide good benefits for the
      > team performance and ability to deliver consistently each Sprint.
      > I AM advocating the BA's understand the Sprint backlog items prior
      > to Sprint start at which point the TEAM can make a better judgement
      > on what they can acheive.
      > I am NOT advocating changing how you work within the Sprint, this
      > should remain a highly iterative Code, Test, Refactor affair - avoid
      > reverting to a waterfall pattern over the Sprint like the plague.
      > For those people that have responded to your initial question along
      > the line "start developing or find a new job" I would argue that
      > developers cannot replace the functions of a BA - and Scrum is about
      > adapting the best you can to solve a problem...in my experience
      > having the BA do the initial planning and discovery about the Sprint
      > backlog items is crucial to a successful Sprint, equally having them
      > available for the initial two weeks of the Sprint as implementation
      > starts to help the developer understand in detail what they are
      > doing is just as vital. I will be blogging about my experience with
      > Pair Programming - however with a twist, using a BA/Business Domain
      > Expert (BDE) paired with a developer and my belief that THIS IS THE
      > MOST EFFICIENT implementation approach possible.
      > Working for a consultancy does raise these questions as they are
      > tradionally aligned along fixed roles. Getting BA's to become
      > developers, developers to become testers and the general crossing of
      > roles is an adaptive process built on iterative attempts at projects
      > and inspection that this is right direction to take.
      > James
      > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Arvind Sathyamoorthy"
      > <arvind@b...> wrote:
      > >
      > > I work for an organization where we are starting to impletement
      > > scrum. We had a few of our developers go in for Scrum training and
      > > they came back with some very useful information.
      > >
      > > Being a business analyst, I have been huting around the web and in
      > > bookstores as to how a business analyst team would fit into an IT
      > > organization practicing scrum.
      > >
      > > We have an IT organization that consists of teams of Business
      > > Analysts, Developers, QA folks, Project Managers and Business
      > users.
      > >
      > > I understand that scrum reccomends that the same person wear
      > > multiple hats, but that is really not possible here.
      > >
      > > In the past I have worked through an organization where we
      > > implemented XP successfully and integrated BA and QA by putting BA
      > 1
      > > iteration ahead of dev and QA one iteration behind Dev. But within
      > > scrum everyone stays in the same sprint. The BA, Dev and QA folks.
      > > So how could all three groups work within the same PB
      > simultaneously
      > > without someone having a good amount of downtime. Since you really
      > > cannot develop before analysis and design is complete, and since
      > you
      > > cannot QA before dev is complete.
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    • Ron Jeffries
      For the record: I am not acknowledging plariarism in XP s Planning Game (nor am I asserting it in XBreed). I think the entire topic of plagiarism is bogus,
      Message 94 of 94 , Nov 12 4:35 AM
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        For the record: I am not acknowledging plariarism in XP's Planning Game
        (nor am I asserting it in XBreed). I think the entire topic of plagiarism
        is bogus, divisive, unproductive and wrong.

        My sole mission in entering the Scrum != XP topic was to point out that
        there is but one elephant here. It is not productive to choose practices
        based on whether or not they are part of Scrum or XP or Crystal.

        As for plagiarism,

        "Not only does I deny the allegation, I denies the alligator".

        Ron Jeffries
        You can observe a lot by watching. --Yogi Berra

        On Friday, November 12, 2004, at 1:12:37 AM, Mike Beedle wrote:

        > Thank you for your honesty and fairness in the acknowledgement of plagiarism
        > from the XP community -

        > this means a lot to us scrummers, since both, honesty and fairness are part
        > of our core values.

        > Honesty and fairness make the fertile ground that will allow us to get
        > *unity* in the growing

        > Agile Community of the future.

        > Also, your ability to see from someone else's perspective; and your ability
        > to understand "deep issues"

        > without bailing out on bogus arguments is what convinced me of your
        > leadership abilities.

        > I only now get to really know and understand who you are - thank you, you
        > have opened my eyes

        > to a new level of "understanding",

        End quotation from Mike Beedle, on Friday, November 12, 2004, at 1:12:37 AM
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