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Re: [scrumdevelopment] Why I recommend changing task status immediately

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  • Ron Jeffries
    ... Outstanding examples! Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com Replacing an on-site customer with some use cases is about as effective as replacing a hug from
    Message 1 of 5 , Apr 4, 2011
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      Hello, Chuck. On Monday, April 4, 2011, at 8:09:16 PM, you wrote:


      > Why I recommend changing task status immediately vs. waiting until the Daily
      > Scrum

      Outstanding examples!

      Ron Jeffries
      www.XProgramming.com
      Replacing an on-site customer with some use cases is about as effective
      as replacing a hug from your Mom with a friendly note.
    • Alan Dayley
      ... Great answers, Chuck. I was asking my questions to glean out some of the additional value the daily meeting brings. The team should not ever wait till the
      Message 2 of 5 , Apr 4, 2011
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        On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 5:09 PM, Chuck B <chuck-lists2@...> wrote:
         Why I recommend changing task status immediately vs. waiting until the Daily Scrum

        (offshoot from another thread)

        > If the team updates task and story state immediately upon a state change or does such updates at least 30 minutes before the daily meeting:
        > - What is the purpose of the daily meeting?
        > - What does the team talk about in the meeting?
        > - In other words, doesn't that make the daily meeting redundant and, therefore, waste?
        > Alan

        It's an excellent question, Alan, and I take no offense. Ask away!

        As others have said, one should not assume that everything that needs communicating is communicated via the task stickies(or whatever task token your team uses).  Therefore, while the tasks are spoken about at the Daily Scrum, they need not be moved in the daily standup, and their effect on the burndown has already been recorded and plotted.

        Usually, they will say something akin to:
        "Yesterday I finished (pointing) tasks A & B, and began working on task C this morning.  I should be able to finish task C this morning, but then I have to partake in some interviews for a new team member, so I'll need a new task later this afternoon.  I'll look at the board then to determine which task."

        "Yesterday I finished task F.  I ran into an obstacle X working on that one [but rather than wait until today to report it in the daily Scrum...], so I hit up Bob and he said to talk to Lucy over in Finance, and they were able to get me past that obstacle.  So, if you have obstacle X, talk to Bob or Lucy and they can get that fixed for ya, or come see me and I can help.  I also started on task F at the end of the day yesterday, and I should have that finished after lunch.  I'm thinking for my next task that I'll look into Story 7 and pick up one of those tasks.  I wasn't here when Story 7 was last groomed, so a potential obstacle I might have is understanding some of the requirements.  Who's a good person to talk to?"  (If the answer to this question is super short, then it's handled immediately, if it becomes a deeper discussion, this issue gets resolved after the daily Scrum as an impediment/obstacle.)

        "Hi team.  I was out yesterday so I didn't do anything, and I noticed by looking at our [accurate]burndown that we're way behind schedule for this sprint, so I think we need to have a quick impediment meeting after the Daily Scrum and figure out what needs to drop or happen so that I can know what's best for me to work on."

        Another example:
        Let's say your Daily Scrum is at 10am.  Let's say there are 3 tasks, task A, B, and C, that are dependent on each other. (I coach my teams to remove these dependencies and make tasks as independent as possible, but that's not always possible or easily done).  If Fred finishes task A at 11am today and then goes to lunch, why doesn't he go ahead and move it?  That way Jennifer could pick up task B, and get that done.  Why should Fred wait until 10am tomorrow in the Daily Scrum to move his task, when someone could have begun work on it yesterday at 11am? 

        My advice:
        1.  Move tasks and stories as soon as they change status, like immediately.
        2.  Have someone update the burndown shortly before the Daily Scrum, so that Scope(too much, too little) and critical pathing problems are apparent and can be identified as impediments in the Daily Scrum (to be resolved outside of the Daily Scrum)
        3. Team members, attempt to resolve an obstacle on your own first.
        4. If you can't resolve it in what seems like a reasonable amount of time, talk to someone who you think can.  If you're not sure who to talk to, ask someone or ping the ScrumMaster.  Do not wait until the Daily Scrum to do this.
        5.  Try to foresee and identify obstacles before they become ostacles.  Give the team a head's up if you see a likely obstacle coming. (Critical path issues are often fairly easily foreseen)

         
        Great answers, Chuck.

        I was asking my questions to glean out some of the additional value the daily meeting brings.  The team should not ever wait till the daily meeting before acting on knowledge, whatever that is.  And, even if the mechanical information transfer of the daily meeting is already handled in other ways, there is great social value in holding the meeting.

        Alan

      • Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSM PSM I
        I don t know if I d call it social value, but I think I know what you re getting it. To me social value connotes cocktail party or happy hour , but those
        Message 3 of 5 , Apr 5, 2011
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          I don't know if I'd call it social value, but I think I know what you're getting it.  To me social value connotes "cocktail party" or "happy hour", but those are my own biases I know. (maybe a little telling too... lol)

          I'd phrase it more like the Scrum Guide... "Inspect and adapt value," "JIT Planning value", "optimizing value"

          "The Daily Scrum meeting is used to inspect progress toward the Sprint goal, and to make adaptations that optimize the value of the next
          work day. "
          "...as well as daily just-in-time planning at every Daily Scrum meeting..."
          "The Daily Scrum is an inspection of the progress toward that Sprint Goal (the three questions). Follow-on meetings usually occur to make adaptations to the upcoming work in the Sprint. The intent is to optimize the probability that the Team will meet its Goal. This is a key inspect and adapt meeting in the Scrum empirical process. "


          -------
          Charles Bradley, CSM, PSM I
          Experienced Scrum Coach
          My blog: http://scrumcrazy.wordpress.com/



          From: Alan Dayley <alandd@...>
          To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
          Cc: Chuck B <chuck-lists2@...>
          Sent: Mon, April 4, 2011 9:40:44 PM
          Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Why I recommend changing task status immediately


          Great answers, Chuck.

          I was asking my questions to glean out some of the additional value the daily meeting brings.  The team should not ever wait till the daily meeting before acting on knowledge, whatever that is.  And, even if the mechanical information transfer of the daily meeting is already handled in other ways, there is great social value in holding the meeting.

          Alan


        • Alan Dayley
          Aspects such as trust, deeper personal connections, shared experiences, shared history, story telling, establishing traditions, creating team slang , laughing
          Message 4 of 5 , Apr 5, 2011
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            Aspects such as trust, deeper personal connections, shared experiences, shared history, story telling, establishing traditions, creating team "slang", laughing together, praise, confession, forgiveness, support, etc. are all things that the Daily Scrum helps to happen and all things I consider to be the "social" part of team interaction.

            High performing teams have these aspects and Agile helps build them sooner than teams without Agile practices.

            Alan

            On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 7:28 PM, Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSM PSM I <chuck-lists2@...> wrote:
             

            I don't know if I'd call it social value, but I think I know what you're getting it.  To me social value connotes "cocktail party" or "happy hour", but those are my own biases I know. (maybe a little telling too... lol)

            I'd phrase it more like the Scrum Guide... "Inspect and adapt value," "JIT Planning value", "optimizing value"

            "The Daily Scrum meeting is used to inspect progress toward the Sprint goal, and to make adaptations that optimize the value of the next
            work day. "
            "...as well as daily just-in-time planning at every Daily Scrum meeting..."
            "The Daily Scrum is an inspection of the progress toward that Sprint Goal (the three questions). Follow-on meetings usually occur to make adaptations to the upcoming work in the Sprint. The intent is to optimize the probability that the Team will meet its Goal. This is a key inspect and adapt meeting in the Scrum empirical process. "



            -------
            Charles Bradley, CSM, PSM I
            Experienced Scrum Coach
            My blog: http://scrumcrazy.wordpress.com/



            From: Alan Dayley <alandd@...>
            To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
            Cc: Chuck B <chuck-lists2@...>
            Sent: Mon, April 4, 2011 9:40:44 PM
            Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Why I recommend changing task status immediately


            Great answers, Chuck.

            I was asking my questions to glean out some of the additional value the daily meeting brings.  The team should not ever wait till the daily meeting before acting on knowledge, whatever that is.  And, even if the mechanical information transfer of the daily meeting is already handled in other ways, there is great social value in holding the meeting.

            Alan



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