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Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Differences between Scrum Alliance and Scrum.org trained ScrumMasters?

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  • Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSM PSM I
    Peter, I don t know that I would characterize most of what you talk about below as Scrum , or part of the Scrum Framework per se. I tend to refer to those
    Message 1 of 15 , Feb 28, 2011
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      Peter,

      I don't know that I would characterize most of what you talk about below as "Scrum", or part of the "Scrum Framework" per se.

      I tend to refer to those techniques as "Scrum strategies" or "Scrum optimizations within the framework" or "Scrum Finishes" (used similar to the house building term for finishing out the framework of a house).  I would open to a better term, but I think it's important sometimes to make a distinction between what is prescribed by the framework in the Scrum Guide, and what is an implementation of something within the framework itself.  Does that make sense?

      I really wish we had a good term for this kind of thing.  Are people already using a term for this concept?
       
      -------
      Charles Bradley, CSM, PSM I
      Experienced Scrum Coach
      My blog: http://scrumcrazy.wordpress.com/



      From: alex.armstrong <alex.armstrong@...>
      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Mon, February 28, 2011 10:14:18 AM
      Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Differences between Scrum Alliance and Scrum.org trained ScrumMasters?

      Hi Peter,

      Interesting thoughts for sure. We strive for consistency only where it makes sense. We absolutely require consistency on the simple rules of Scrum that ensure it works. Beyond that, where there isn't a single answer, we seek and foster discussion amongst the trainer community with the hope that trainers are well versed in the alternatives.

      Alex

      --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Stevens (calendar)" <peterstev@...> wrote:
      >
      > On 2/21/11 4:35 PM, alex.armstrong wrote:
      > >
      > > Sorry, I am slightly confused. Are you suggesting that Scrum is 'not'
      > > defined by Jeff and Ken?
      > >
      > It does seem to me there are many things in Scrum or closely associated
      > with Scrum that did not come from Ken or Jeff. User Stories, Story
      > Points and the Task Board come to mind. So does the practice of counting
      > tasks in the Sprint Backlog rather than reestimating them in hours every
      > day. If I am not mistaken, User Stories and Story Points were made
      > popular by Mike Cohn. I don't know who invented the task board or how
      > the practice of counting tickets emerged.
      >
      > So I guess that might be an interesting question, where is the thought
      > leadership on Scrum? How does that affect how ScrumMasters are trained?
      > That scrum.org puts the thought leadership clearly in the hands of Ken
      > and Jeff I think is clear. It is not so clear to me that the Scrum
      > Alliance or its trainers see it that way (nor is it clear that they have
      > a clear, alternative vision).
      >
      > Could that lead to a conformist 'look it up in the rulebook' approach in
      > scrum.org trainees and a wild, free thinking but probably not very
      > conformist spirit among the scrum alliance trainees?
      >
      > Cheers,
      > Peter
      >


    • jsutherland
      Scrum was defined by me and Ken based on my 1993 Scrum implementation at Easel Corporation. The first produce owner owned the product vision and the ROI. He
      Message 2 of 15 , Mar 1, 2011
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        Scrum was defined by me and Ken based on my 1993 Scrum implementation at Easel Corporation. The first produce owner owned the product vision and the ROI. He was assisted by stakeholders, particularly me as the Chief Engineer for the company. I hired the Product Owner and supervised him. In the venture community our investors are starting to say the CEO needs to be the Chief Product Owner or the product sucks. They like the Steve Jobs model.

        There are many random debates among new Scrum trainers and sometimes confusion that is surprising to me. Since I put Scrum in the public domain in 1995 with Ken's agreement, other people may produce derivative works. However, they should cite the definitive source which is the Scrum Guide.

        There is also a Scrum Handbook ready for publication that I give to all those working with Scrum, Inc. classes or consulting engagements. This has been reviewed and edited by Ken to make sure we are consistent with the Scrum guide. Also, some of the leading trainers in the world are giving me feedback to fine tune it before publishing to be clear on these issues. Anyone who wants a pre-publication copy should sent a note to info@.... You are welcome to recommend edits before publication.

        Jeff Sutherland
        Scrum, Inc.


        --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Michael James <mj4scrum@...> wrote:
        >
        > On Feb 19, 2011, at 2:10 AM, Peter Stevens (cal) wrote:
        >
        > > Has anyone noticed differences in style, approach or substance
        > > between Scrum Alliance and Scrum.org trained ScrumMasters?" Or are differences more related to the
        > > approach of individual trainers?
        >
        > I'm currently listening to two ScrumAlliance trainers argue whether the Product Owner is responsible for vision and ROI, or is more of a line manager in a chain of command. So my guess is there's a greater difference in message between trainers than between ScrumAlliance and Scrum.org. This is just conjecture, since I don't know the Scrum.org trainers other than Ken himself. I did have one of my CSM participants pay for the Scrum.org PSM test by mistake, and pass it. This tends to confirm my subjective belief/hope that I'm still carrying Ken's flag while being affiliated with the ScrumAlliance.
        >
        > --mj
        > http://ScrumReferenceCard.com
        >
      • Adam Sroka
        Interesting. I look forward to seeing the handbook. BTW, produce owner is my favorite typo of the week ;-) On Mar 1, 2011 10:40 AM, jsutherland
        Message 3 of 15 , Mar 1, 2011
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          Interesting. I look forward to seeing the handbook.

          BTW, "produce owner" is my favorite typo of the week ;-)

          On Mar 1, 2011 10:40 AM, "jsutherland" <jeff.sutherland@...> wrote:
          > Scrum was defined by me and Ken based on my 1993 Scrum implementation at Easel Corporation. The first produce owner owned the product vision and the ROI. He was assisted by stakeholders, particularly me as the Chief Engineer for the company. I hired the Product Owner and supervised him. In the venture community our investors are starting to say the CEO needs to be the Chief Product Owner or the product sucks. They like the Steve Jobs model.
          >
          > There are many random debates among new Scrum trainers and sometimes confusion that is surprising to me. Since I put Scrum in the public domain in 1995 with Ken's agreement, other people may produce derivative works. However, they should cite the definitive source which is the Scrum Guide.
          >
          > There is also a Scrum Handbook ready for publication that I give to all those working with Scrum, Inc. classes or consulting engagements. This has been reviewed and edited by Ken to make sure we are consistent with the Scrum guide. Also, some of the leading trainers in the world are giving me feedback to fine tune it before publishing to be clear on these issues. Anyone who wants a pre-publication copy should sent a note to info@.... You are welcome to recommend edits before publication.
          >
          > Jeff Sutherland
          > Scrum, Inc.
          >
          >
          > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Michael James <mj4scrum@...> wrote:
          >>
          >> On Feb 19, 2011, at 2:10 AM, Peter Stevens (cal) wrote:
          >>
          >> > Has anyone noticed differences in style, approach or substance
          >> > between Scrum Alliance and Scrum.org trained ScrumMasters?" Or are differences more related to the
          >> > approach of individual trainers?
          >>
          >> I'm currently listening to two ScrumAlliance trainers argue whether the Product Owner is responsible for vision and ROI, or is more of a line manager in a chain of command. So my guess is there's a greater difference in message between trainers than between ScrumAlliance and Scrum.org. This is just conjecture, since I don't know the Scrum.org trainers other than Ken himself. I did have one of my CSM participants pay for the Scrum.org PSM test by mistake, and pass it. This tends to confirm my subjective belief/hope that I'm still carrying Ken's flag while being affiliated with the ScrumAlliance.
          >>
          >> --mj
          >> http://ScrumReferenceCard.com
          >>
          >
          >
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