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RE: FW: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Organizational Patterns of Agile Software Development

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  • Steven Gordon
    Perhaps there is a way to have our cake and eat it to. The Pattern Language Template used by the GOF (Gamma, et al) includes a section called Motivation. This
    Message 1 of 6 , Oct 28, 2004
      Perhaps there is a way to have our cake and eat it to.
       
      The Pattern Language Template used by the GOF (Gamma, et al) includes a section called Motivation.  This is supposed to be a scenario that helps explain the point of the given pattern.  The Motivation sections in their book tend to be 1-2 pages, but extending them into slightly longer "short stories" would seem to be an option if they help the average reader understand better.
       
      Steven A. Gordon, Ph.D.
      Manager, Software Factory
      Arizona State University
      PO Box 875506
      Tempe, AZ 85287-9509
      http://sf.asu.edu
      (480)-727-6271
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Boris Gloger [mailto:boris.gloger@...]
      Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 10:06 AM
      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: FW: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Organizational Patterns of Agile Software Development

      Hi, again my silly and maybe provocative comments ....

      On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:11:07 -0500, Mike Beedle
      <beedlem@...> wrote:
      >
      > Well, actually you didn't say it wasn't valuable, you just said it was "dry
      > read", and for most people this is true.
      >
      >
      > Deb wrote:

      [...]

      > >code base. We were using the online study guide from Industrial Logic
      > >http://www.industriallogic.com/papers/learning.html
      >
      > I see.  Joshua's guidelines are a great place to start.  I have been part of
      > several internal patterns groups through the years.
      >
      > Deb wrote:
      > >What I meant was that everyone I know (and some people I don't know,
      > >but have read) agree that it's not a book that can be *read* like a
      > >novel or even a training manual.

      [...]

      >
      > Sure, it cannot be read as a novel.  The way to read it is to read the first
      > 3 chapters and then read "one pattern at a time".  It almost doesn't matter
      > which pattern you start with first.
      >
      > Deb wrote:
      > >I was comparing this to what Boris (was it Boris?) brought up about
      > >how a Story "grabs" you in a way that a Design Pattern does not (my
      > >own paraphrase).
      >

      So - if I understand both of you right, than you agree that reading
      patterns is not a very simple and intuitive thing, or? That means - if
      I want to learn, what is said in the patterns I might need to start a
      study group, right?

      Do  you agree, that we as Scum Masters want to train, teach, motivate
      our teams, managers, outside people in using Scrum?

      Do you further agree that we need to speak the language of the people
      which we want to reach?

      And that we do create a high hurdle if we do not use a media that is
      known by our addressee?

      So again my question, what is the benefit of using patterns if we do
      not transfer our knowledge in an easy way to our recipients? I can see
      that using patterns for reference makes totally sense and again, why
      not writing short stories? This would lead into the same direction as
      the idea of using simulations in training sessions.

      ---- boris

    • Mike Beedle
      ... Boris, Well, patterns are supposed to be really easy and fun to read. I am sorry to hear it has been otherwise for you personally. For most reading
      Message 2 of 6 , Oct 28, 2004
        Boris Gloger wrote:
        >So - if I understand both of you right, than you agree that reading
        >patterns is not a very simple and intuitive thing, or? That means - if
        >I want to learn, what is said in the patterns I might need to start a
        >study group, right?

        Boris,

        Well, patterns are supposed to be really easy and fun to read. I am sorry
        to hear it has been otherwise for you personally.

        For most reading patterns is a fun, interesting, can't-put-it-down,
        easy-to-read experience; and I don't doubt that for some it might be dull,
        boring, hard-to-read, and/or obfuscated.

        It is definitely a personal thing.

        Boris Gloger wrote:
        > Do you agree, that we as Scum Masters want to train, teach, motivate
        > our teams, managers, outside people in using Scrum?

        Yes I do. In the ScrumMaster is a TechnicalLead view of the world or the
        SrumMaster is both the "ProjectLead and TechnicalLead" view of the world,
        the ScrumMaster is a Mentor or Coach, not just a Coordinator. These are my
        preferred ways of being a ScrumMaster.

        Also, in most Scrum teams we almost always have a "brown bag" presentation
        (typically on Thursdays), where we presented technical stuff to the rest of
        the team.

        Boris Gloger wrote:
        > Do you further agree that we need to speak the language of the people
        > which we want to reach?

        Sure.

        Boris Gloger wrote:
        > And that we do create a high hurdle if we do not use a media that is
        > known by our addressee?

        Sure.

        Boris Gloger wrote:
        >So again my question, what is the benefit of using patterns if we do
        >not transfer our knowledge in an easy way to our recipients? I can see
        >that using patterns for reference makes totally sense and again, why
        >not writing short stories? This would lead into the same direction as
        >the idea of using simulations in training sessions.

        Well, for once the software development world has pretty much universally
        accepted patterns as a good knowledge transfer format :-)

        But actually there are different pattern formats, and there has been a great
        debate as to what format works better. In my mind, patterns are
        "hard-earned knowledge", and have a great deal of value -- but I would admit
        that I am way to biased to give you an objective impartial point of view :-)

        The GOF form has 13 sections, and most people have issues precisely because
        it is so verbose. To me this is the hardest format to read -- I like to
        read in concise, short, to-the-point formats.

        Coplien's form, is "the middle of the road" with five or six sections:
        Context, Problem, Solution, Rationale, Resulting Context, Examples (or Known
        Uses). It is easy to read, and it admits some story-telling.

        However Alexander's form, as Deb mentioned is much more story-like. Perhaps
        you would like this form better,

        - Mike
      • Hubert Smits
        Hi Mike, On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:11:07 -0500, Mike Beedle ... You mean you didn t replace it? Are you also living by the motto Real Men Don t Backup ? But in
        Message 3 of 6 , Oct 28, 2004
          Hi Mike,

          On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:11:07 -0500, Mike Beedle
          <beedlem@...> wrote:
          >
          > Deb wrote:
          > >Yes, I had an additional line in my first draft of the message, which
          > >got lost when my pc crashed... :-) let me try again:
          >
          > Deb:
          >
          > Understood, I had a bad computer incident where my drive wouldn't boot up a
          > couple of weeks ago. It was back within a couple of days, but it was a
          > scary situation. Hopefully it is not something serious.

          You mean you didn't replace it? Are you also living by the motto 'Real
          Men Don't Backup'?

          But in all seriousness, I've maintained hardware as a living, do get
          rid of a disk that has failed to boot once. It is a disaster waiting
          to happen.

          --Hubert
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