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RE: [scrumdevelopment] Scheduling Defect Fixes

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  • Roy Morien
    I was replying to George s email when I capitalised it, Ron. I wasn t always directly addressing your emails. And you last 4 emails arrived at sometime this
    Message 1 of 347 , Feb 1, 2011
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      I was replying to George's email when I capitalised it, Ron. I wasn't always directly addressing your emails. And you last 4 emails arrived at sometime this evening (my time) and this discussion has been going on for more than a week.
       
      And if you perceive 'intense bitterness' in my words, then I can assure you your perception is incorrect.
       
      So ... have we arrived at some mutually acceptable suggestions, albeit not entirely in agreement in the details?
       
      I do hope so!
       
      Regards,
      Roy Morien
       
      > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      > From: ronjeffries@...
      > Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 09:53:09 -0500
      > Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Scheduling Defect Fixes
      >
      > Hello, Roy. On Tuesday, February 1, 2011, at 9:35:37 AM, you
      > wrote:
      >
      > > Oh, all quite clear and straightforward, and in no way in
      > > disagreement with my view, so I just have to wonder where the
      > > controversy is that has caused such a long, and sometimes very
      > > argumentative and almost bitter discussion.
      >
      > I do not know. I hear the intense bitterness in your words, but have
      > absolutely no idea of their source. I can only imagine that they
      > stem from something local to you.
      > >
      > > Item 4 is where I have suggested that we make a User Story of a
      > > defect, place it in the backlog, estimate it if you care to (by
      > > giving it Story Points). Items 1, 2 and 3 have never been in
      > > dispute, or at least, have never been diagreed with or
      > > contradicted in anything I have said.
      >
      > Then, since that's what I've said in about the last four emails, why
      > are you still disputing, typing in capital letters, and offering
      > thinly veiled insults?
      >
      > Ron Jeffries
      > www.XProgramming.com
      > Show me the features!
      >
      >
      >
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    • Vikrama Dhiman
      ... Although, this is not Twitter. I really want to do a+1. Echoes my thoughts completely. Won t have been able to put it better myself. Thanks Vikrama Dhiman
      Message 347 of 347 , Feb 2, 2011
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        >>It (and the length of this thread) is a great illustration of why I recommend that teams not get too wrapped up in estimation. They start looking for numerical precision, and that starts consuming the energy that could be put toward accomplish goals.

        Although, this is not Twitter. I really want to do a +1.

        Echoes my thoughts completely. Won't have been able to put it better myself.
         
        Thanks

        Vikrama Dhiman
        ================================================================
        Personal Blog : http://www.vikramadhiman.com/
        My Blog about all things Agile : http://agilediary.wordpress.com/



        From: George Dinwiddie <lists@...>
        To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wed, February 2, 2011 11:09:28 PM
        Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Scheduling Defect Fixes

         

        On 2/2/11 5:48 AM, Ron Jeffries wrote:
        > Hello, kbs_kulbhushan. On Wednesday, February 2, 2011, at
        > 12:23:59 AM, you wrote:
        >
        >> Does this make sense?
        >
        > Not really, but it was a delightful demonstration of how many
        > numbers can dance on the head of a pin.

        It (and the length of this thread) is a great illustration of why I
        recommend that teams not get too wrapped up in estimation. They start
        looking for numerical precision, and that starts consuming the energy
        that could be put toward accomplish goals.

        I suggest that the primary reason for estimating stories & tracking
        velocity is to help the team decide how much work they can do in the
        next iteration. I've found that developing clear acceptance examples
        (a.k.a. tests) helps them do that much better than more time spent
        honing estimates.

        I suggest that the secondary reason for estimating stories & tracking
        velocity is to help the PO predict how much functionality can be done by
        a certain date, or how long it will take to build a certain amount of
        functionality. When doing so, one has to remember that these are just
        estimates, no matter how much work you put into them. You need to allow
        some leeway for the things you don't know and can't predict. You need
        to track actual progress, and give that more weight than any predicted
        progress. And you need to measure actual progress in ways that don't
        mislead you. The more calculations you put in, the more likely you're
        going to fool yourself.

        - George

        P.S. Remember that the abbreviation for "estimation" is "guess."

        --
        ----------------------------------------------------------
        * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
        Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
        Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
        ----------------------------------------------------------


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