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Re: [scrumdevelopment] Use Cases?

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  • George Dinwiddie
    Hi, Sakendrick, ... If you re /good/ at use cases (and my experience is most places aren t), then I seen no reason why you can t continue to use them. Use
    Message 1 of 73 , Nov 2, 2010
      Hi, Sakendrick,

      On 11/2/10 10:32 PM, sakendrick wrote:
      > Do use cases have a place in scrum? My intuition is that if a user
      > story is written correctly, that should be enough to drive discussion
      > and collaboration, and enough for the development of test cases. But
      > is there a void between user stories and test cases that requires use
      > cases since the user story only focuses on the "what"?

      If you're /good/ at use cases (and my experience is most places aren't),
      then I seen no reason why you can't continue to use them. Use cases can
      be helpful in making sure that you've covered all the important flows.
      They can also be terribly confusing to business people (and sometimes to
      technical people, too).

      You'll still want to come up with test cases that cover all the flows of
      the use case, and often covering just a part of a flow. These can be
      bundled in small groups (1 to 3 might be a good number) and used as the
      acceptance criteria for stories.

      > Curious what people are practicing... I've read several articles with
      > mixed opinions on this - some state that user story and use cases are
      > just different methods of communicating requirements or expectations
      > (use one or the other), where as other say they are different animals
      > and in some situations you need the detailed use cases.

      In what situations would you need detailed use cases, and why?

      - George

      Nov 15-16 Agile Testing Workshop in Orlando
      * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
      Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
      Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
    • Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach, CSM, PSM I
      Oh, I m sorry, when I said I wanted it to take off like a helicopter, I meant take off like a helicopter from a warzone, where we can carry troops and
      Message 73 of 73 , Nov 9, 2010
        "Oh, I'm sorry, when I said I wanted it to 'take off like a helicopter,' I meant 'take off like a helicopter from a warzone, where we can carry troops and equipment.'

        And there's the rub.  The devil is in the details, and sometimes those details means we're off the mark (Harrier vs. Osprey) or things take much longer than anticipated (Osprey).

        Someone else made a point here recently about how it's extremely important to a) get to the details, by having the CEO appoint a point person and b) make sure you loop in the CEO iteratively and intelligently (respecting his time) so he can head off any incorrect interpretation of his vision.

        I'm not against vision, but a vision is not a "software requirement".  Further, a vision is not easily testable, nor is a business requirement, because they often lack the key ingredient of system behavior that you can test against.


        From: Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@...>
        To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Mon, November 8, 2010 6:46:06 PM
        Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Use Cases?


        Hello, PSM. On Monday, November 8, 2010, at 4:09:51 PM, you wrote:

        > "I want a plane, that also can take off like a helicopter. You guys/gals are
        > smart people, so you can do that, right?"


        Ron Jeffries
        Without practice, no emergence. -- Dougen Zenji

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