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Re: [scrumdevelopment] Does daily scrum has to have so rigid structure?

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  • PeteCRuth@aol.com
    It seems to me that a fifteen-minute stand up meeting leaves twenty-three hours and forty-five minutes per day, if necessary, for follow-up meetings to get
    Message 1 of 5 , Jul 31, 2010
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      It seems to me that a fifteen-minute stand up meeting leaves twenty-three hours and forty-five minutes per day, if necessary, for follow-up meetings to get all the help or additional information that might be needed. The point of the stand-up meeting, I thought, is to transfer the status of team activities to all team members. It's the starting point for whatever subsequent collaboration is necessary to accomplish whatever tasks have been assigned. Or am I missing something?
       
      Regards,
       
      Pete
    • Adam Sroka
      Yes. You are missing the fact that it is very unlikely you will see me before 9:30 or after 17:30 on any given day (Unless there is beer involved.)
      Message 2 of 5 , Jul 31, 2010
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        Yes. You are missing the fact that it is very unlikely you will see me before 9:30 or after 17:30 on any given day (Unless there is beer involved.)

        On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 3:13 PM, <PeteCRuth@...> wrote:
         

         
        It seems to me that a fifteen-minute stand up meeting leaves twenty-three hours and forty-five minutes per day, if necessary, for follow-up meetings to get all the help or additional information that might be needed. The point of the stand-up meeting, I thought, is to transfer the status of team activities to all team members. It's the starting point for whatever subsequent collaboration is necessary to accomplish whatever tasks have been assigned. Or am I missing something?
         
        Regards,
         
        Pete

      • PeteCRuth@aol.com
        Picky, picky, picky! I was, of course, alluding to the possibility of working in a distributed environment, with activities taking place in international time,
        Message 3 of 5 , Aug 1, 2010
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          Picky, picky, picky! I was, of course, alluding to the possibility of working in a distributed environment, with activities taking place in international time, across several time zones. Come to think of it, though, you've got a point: when it's beer time in Germany, it's beer time everywhere. Even California! 
           
          Remember, someone once said, "Somewhere, the sun is over the yardarm...", to which someone else replied, "And that means it's time to pop open an ice cold brewski!"
           
          Regards,
           
          Pete
           
          In a message dated 7/31/2010 5:37:27 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, adam.sroka@... writes:
           

          Yes. You are missing the fact that it is very unlikely you will see me before 9:30 or after 17:30 on any given day (Unless there is beer involved.)

          On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 3:13 PM, <PeteCRuth@aol. com> wrote:
           

           
          It seems to me that a fifteen-minute stand up meeting leaves twenty-three  hours and forty-five minutes per day, if necessary, for follow-up meetings to get all the help or additional information that might be needed. The point of the stand-up meeting, I thought, is to transfer the status of team activities to all team members. It's the starting point for whatever subsequent collabora tion is necessary to accomplish whatever tasks have been assigned. Or am I missing something?
           
          Regards,
           
          Pete


        • Roy Morien
          Yeah, someone also said The sun never sets on the British Empire ... because God doesn t trust Englishmen in the dark . Regards, Roy Morien To:
          Message 4 of 5 , Aug 1, 2010
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            Yeah, someone also said 'The sun never sets on the British Empire ... because God doesn't trust Englishmen in the dark'.
             
            Regards,
            Roy Morien
             

            To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
            From: PeteCRuth@...
            Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 03:02:28 -0400
            Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Does daily scrum has to have so rigid structure?

             
            Picky, picky, picky! I was, of course, alluding to the possibility of working in a distributed environment, with activities taking place in international time, across several time zones. Come to think of it, though, you've got a point: when it's beer time in Germany, it's beer time everywhere. Even California! 
             
            Remember, someone once said, "Somewhere, the sun is over the yardarm...", to which someone else replied, "And that means it's time to pop open an ice cold brewski!"
             
            Regards,
             
            Pete
             
            In a message dated 7/31/2010 5:37:27 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, adam.sroka@gmail. com writes:
             

            Yes. You are missing the fact that it is very unlikely you will see me before 9:30 or after 17:30 on any given day (Unless there is beer involved.)

            On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 3:13 PM, <PeteCRuth@aol. com> wrote:
             

             
            It seems to me that a fifteen-minute stand up meeting leaves twenty-three  hours and forty-five minutes per day, if necessary, for follow-up meetings to get all the help or additional information that might be needed. The point of the stand-up meeting, I thought, is to transfer the status of team activities to all team members. It's the starting point for whatever subsequent collabora tion is necessary to accomplish whatever tasks have been assigned. Or am I missing something?
             
            Regards,
             
            Pete





          • Adam Sroka
            ... In my experience a distributed team has less time to coordinate than a co-located team. For example, my company is distributed between the Northeast US and
            Message 5 of 5 , Aug 1, 2010
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              On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 12:02 AM, <PeteCRuth@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > Picky, picky, picky! I was, of course, alluding to the possibility of working in a distributed environment, with activities taking place in international time, across several time zones. Come to think of it, though, you've got a point: when it's beer time in Germany, it's beer time everywhere. Even California!
              >

              In my experience a distributed team has less time to coordinate than a
              co-located team. For example, my company is distributed between the
              Northeast US and Southern California. The time difference is only
              three hours, but that means that:

              1) When the East Coast people get in (0900 EDT == 0600 PDT) the West
              Coast people are asleep or just beginning their commute.
              2) When the West Coast people get in (0900 PDT == 1200 EDT) the East
              Coast people are on their way to lunch.
              3) When the West Coast people are at lunch (1200 PDT == 1500 EDT) the
              East Coast people are wrapping up for the day (working and not wanting
              to be interrupted... in meetings... etc.)
              4) When the West Coast people are wrapping up (1500 PDT == 1800 EDT)
              the East Coast people are either already gone for the day, or really,
              really, ready to be.

              The net result is that there are at most three or four hours that are
              mutually convenient for the distributed team, and the timing always
              sucks.

              This can't be any better for a team that is distributed across
              multiple time zones. At the extreme, it means that people are working
              really hard to be available to each other at the expense of personal
              and family time.

              ...

              getting back to the original point:

              * On a collocated team the standup is about 15 / (8 * 60) = 3.125% --
              much more than you suggested.
              * On a distributed team the overlapping time is less and the
              coordination costs are higher. So, the numbers probably vary a bit,
              but I suggest they are @ 5-10% or more.
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