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Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Scrum Certification Exams

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  • Peter Stevens (cal)
    ... Uh, no. You asked specific questions about the CSP. Previously the discussion had been about S-A vs Scrum.org entry level certifications and the value of
    Message 1 of 58 , Jul 31, 2010
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      On 31.07.10 16:21, Michael Sync wrote:
      >> http://www.scrumalliance.org/pages/certified_scrum_professional
      >
      > :) I know the link, Peter. That's what we are discussing about since a few
      > days back.
      >

      Uh, no. You asked specific questions about the CSP. Previously the discussion had been about S-A vs
      Scrum.org entry level certifications and the value of same.

      --
      Lean Agile Scrum Konferenz in Zürich mit Mary Poppendieck und Henrik Kniberg.
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      Peter Stevens, CSM, CSPO, CSP
      Independent Scrum Trainer and Coach
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    • Michael Sync
      ... does not seem to have an end in sight, and which is not convincing anyone of the opposite point of view very much. Okay, Roy. I will stop here. :) Hi Ron,
      Message 58 of 58 , Aug 1, 2010
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        >>So guys, how about we cease cluttering the airwaves with this topic, which does not seem to have an end in sight, and which is not convincing anyone of the opposite point of view very much. 

        Okay, Roy. I will stop here. :) 

        Hi Ron,

        I still have an answer for your question.. I will directly email you... :) 

        Thanks and Best Regards,
        Michael Sync

        Don't go the way life takes you.
        Take life the way you go

        http://michaelsync.net


        On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 9:33 PM, Roy Morien <roymorien@...> wrote:
         

        Frankly, I think this whole stream of conversation, which has generated more network traffic than any other topic, is rather irrelevant and adds nothing to the general body of knowledge.
         
        It is nionsense to ask if 'a course' is better than experience, because the quality of both the course and the experience can vary so much. A good, informative course is valuable for those who are interested in being informed. Reading books written by authoratative authors is a good way to learn, and get ideas, and indeed get inspiration. Having experience under the guidance of an experienced practitioner is pretty good too. Having experience all on your own may not be very useful, or may be quite useful, depending on the circumstances.
         
        There are many professional bodies around the world that it is compulsory to belong to if you are in a particular profession, and many that is is highly desirable to belong to. These have professional training requirements and exams, sometimes statutorally imposed. But, to be honest, I do not think the Scrum Alliance or any other 'Scrum body' has yet gained the general and professional acceptance to be able to be counted amongst those other professional bodies. I say this with all due respect to Ron and Ken et al who have lead our efforts intellectually and practically for a long time.
         
        As an educator, principally, I can see the usefulness and limitations on formal learning, and formal assessment. I have often been told by students that "I have learned more in the 6 months I have been working than you taught me in 3 years of my degree". Yeah, sure! The work experience is in a narrower area of endeavour, and the degree course never claimed to be a work-preparation training course. But this does demonstrate, in my view, that there is value in both. Unfortunately many students in university courses see that the object is to get a degree with as little learning as is possible. Most of the time a university course is the opportunity to have first sex, first beer, and first radical politics (particulary to attract the chicks). So attitude and intent definitely come into any discussion about experience versus training and so on.
         
        So guys, how about we cease cluttering the airwaves with this topic, which does not seem to have an end in sight, and which is not convincing anyone of the opposite point of view very much.
         
        Regards,
        Roy Morien
         
        > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
        > From: ronjeffries@...
        > Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 08:44:11 -0400


        > Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Scrum Certification Exams
        >
        > Hello, Michael. On Sunday, August 1, 2010, at 12:31:19 AM, you
        > wrote:
        >
        > >>> Some important parts of Scrum may not be testable knowledge
        >
        > > What important part of Scrum are not testable?
        >
        > The most important part is "what will you actually do in a given
        > situation?" No written test can ever get that information.
        >
        > > There are different types of questions. Some can be based on
        > > scenario, Some can be multiple choice, short essay and etc.. So,
        > > IMO, everything are testable in some way or other.
        >
        > Please send us an outline of a written test on juggling that will
        > tell us accurately how well you can juggle.
        >
        > Ron Jeffries
        > www.XProgramming.com
        > www.xprogramming.com/blog
        > You have to either laugh or cry. -- Bill Rogers
        >
        >
        >
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