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Re: Undone Work

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  • Andreas
    Hi Charles, in my experience it is not unusual to start with an incomplete Definition of Done because the team can absorb only a certain amount of (process)
    Message 1 of 5 , Jul 1, 2010
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      Hi Charles,

      in my experience it is not unusual to start with an "incomplete" Definition of Done because the team can absorb only a certain amount of (process) changes. Stories should be "done" in this regard at the end of sprint, and over time the Team should strive for a more complete DoD. I think it's a good idea to capture stuff for release/hardening sprints in the backlog to improve release/roadmap planning.

      YMMV, of course.

      --Andreas

      --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "chuckspublicprofile" <chuck-lists2@...> wrote:
      >
      > The last 2.5 paragraphs on the last page of the Scrum Guide talk about dealing with "Undone" work.
      >
      > http://www.scrum.org/storage/scrumguides/Scrum%20Guide.pdf#view=fit
      >
      > Does anyone actually use that strategy?
      >
      > Outside of release related activities (performance testing, security, stability, etc), does anyone actually split off shippable functionality from a backlog item at the end of the sprint and apportion the estimates to the "done" part and the "undone" part?
      >
      > Other than describing release related activities, this last 2.5 paragraphs really bothers me. I try to coach my teams to ALWAYS get to done on a story. I encourage them to not sweep technical debt or bugs or undone work under the rug until later.
      >
      > Just curious how anyone else interprets or applies this part of the Scrum Guide.
      >
      > Charles Bradley, CSM
      > Scrum Coach
      > Denver, CO
      >
    • Michael James
      Ah, the morning after pill. This is in tension with Ken s old slides, which state[d]: ScrumMaster must prevent demonstration of undone work. I think Ken
      Message 2 of 5 , Jul 1, 2010
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        Ah, the morning after pill.  This is in tension with Ken's old slides, which state[d]: "ScrumMaster must prevent demonstration of undone work."  I think Ken was closer to the mark the first time, though I wouldn't say *only* the ScrumMaster should take this responsibility once the team's up and running properly.  Ken's squirrelburger exercise illustrates his true intent.

        I saw a PO learn the hard way to return the entire item to the Product Backlog when it's not actually done.  This causes the team to learn to take on smaller stories and get that last icky 3% actually done.

        --mj

        On Jul 1, 2010, at 10:35 AM, chuckspublicprofile wrote:

         

        The last 2.5 paragraphs on the last page of the Scrum Guide talk about dealing with "Undone" work.

        http://www.scrum.org/storage/scrumguides/Scrum%20Guide.pdf#view=fit

        Does anyone actually use that strategy?

        Outside of release related activities (performance testing, security, stability, etc), does anyone actually split off shippable functionality from a backlog item at the end of the sprint and apportion the estimates to the "done" part and the "undone" part?

        Other than describing release related activities, this last 2.5 paragraphs really bothers me. I try to coach my teams to ALWAYS get to done on a story. I encourage them to not sweep technical debt or bugs or undone work under the rug until later.

        Just curious how anyone else interprets or applies this part of the Scrum Guide.

        Charles Bradley, CSM
        Scrum Coach
        Denver, CO


      • George Dinwiddie
        Hi, Chuck, ... I will sometimes suggest to new scrum teams splitting a story at the end of the sprint, but only along functional story lines--and I recommend
        Message 3 of 5 , Jul 1, 2010
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          Hi, Chuck,

          On 7/1/10 1:35 PM, chuckspublicprofile wrote:
          > The last 2.5 paragraphs on the last page of the Scrum Guide talk about dealing with "Undone" work.
          >
          > http://www.scrum.org/storage/scrumguides/Scrum%20Guide.pdf#view=fit
          >
          > Does anyone actually use that strategy?
          >
          > Outside of release related activities (performance testing, security,
          > stability, etc), does anyone actually split off shippable
          > functionality from a backlog item at the end of the sprint and
          > apportion the estimates to the "done" part and the "undone" part?

          I will sometimes suggest to new scrum teams splitting a story at the end
          of the sprint, but only along functional story lines--and I recommend
          that they not make it a regular practice. When I do this, it's because
          they started with a story that was way too big in the first place. I
          coach them to split the stories /before/ the next sprint.

          - George

          --
          ----------------------------------------------------------------------
          * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
          Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
          Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
          ----------------------------------------------------------------------
        • charles_bradley_scrum_coach
          After re-reading the paragraph above the ones I mentioned, I realize now that the context of this section (Final thoughts) is ONLY in application to orgs who
          Message 4 of 5 , Jul 1, 2010
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            After re-reading the paragraph above the ones I mentioned, I realize now that the context of this section (Final thoughts) is ONLY in application to orgs who are incapable of producing a potentially shippable product increment in one sprint. That makes much more sense now. Ken specifically calls out the case where an org doesn't have the automated testing infrastructure in place yet to fully test an increment within the sprint.

            Ahhh yes... the light bulb comes on.

            Charles Bradley

            --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "chuckspublicprofile" <chuck-lists2@...> wrote:
            >
            > The last 2.5 paragraphs on the last page of the Scrum Guide talk about dealing with "Undone" work.
            >
            > http://www.scrum.org/storage/scrumguides/Scrum%20Guide.pdf#view=fit
            >
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