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Re: [scrumdevelopment] Best scrum team award - good/bad?

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  • Rajesh Velliyatt
    Good thought. This could be an alternate approach. Wondering what could be the measures to set the bar, pass/fail test? 1. Velocity trend of the team (
    Message 1 of 17 , Jul 1, 2010
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      Good thought. This could be an alternate approach. 

      Wondering what could be the measures to set the bar, pass/fail test? 

      1. Velocity trend of the team ( Assumption: team is consistent with point estimation, *could be* influenced by the reward system? ) 
      2. Sprint execution effectiveness ( Burn down chart, Impediments raised and How the team dealt with impediments ) 
      3. Adherence to DoD ( Data comes from PO ) 
      4. Commitment/attitude of the team towards Scrum process ( Data comes from SM )

      Missing any other important aspects?  


      thanks,
      Rajesh.

      On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 8:39 PM, Paul Tiseo <paul_tiseo@...> wrote:
       

      Rajesh:

      Instead of being a "top 1" award, simply make it a level or threshold all teams can strive for. Assuming all teams adopt scrum well, then you will enter into an unrewarding "splitting of hairs" as to who is best. Simply make it a pass/fail test with all-hands evaluation.

      And, IMO on Mr. Levinson's post, you need to be careful. Dan Pink puts forth a view that is based on slightly outdated research. More current research indicates a more complex reality. This list had a debate on this issue and you can find it on the group's yahoo archives, starting here:
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scrumdevelopment/message/46734

      _________________________________
      PAUL TISEO
      paul_tiseo@...
      (904) 382-5704 (cell)

      On 6/30/2010 5:48 AM, Rajesh Velliyatt wrote:
       

      We have several scrum teams in the BU, associated to different product developments. In order to promote adoption of agile and create a healthy competition between the teams, management team is thinking of a "best scrum team of the quarter" award. 


      What could be the possible downside of such an award system? 

      Few things I can think of are, 
      - Subjective ( like any other such system ) 
      - If all teams are doing well ( or even otherwise ), picking one among them can pull other teams down
      - May work against collaboration across teams
      - Too much overhead ( data collection ) to substantiate "we are best of the pack" to the panel ( for the scrum master? )
      - Different product teams, no apple-to-apple comparison

      Am I being paranoid?. Please share your thoughts.

      thanks,
      Rajesh.


    • Mark Levison
      ... Velocity inflation here I come. For more details: Misuse of Velocity of an Agile Project
      Message 2 of 17 , Jul 1, 2010
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        On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 3:02 AM, Rajesh Velliyatt <velliyatt@...> wrote:
         
        High level competitive measures that can be obtained from various data points could be, 
        Velocity trend of the team, Sprint execution effectiveness, Adherence to DoD, Commitment/attitude of the team towards Scrum process

        Velocity inflation here I come. For more details: Misuse of Velocity of an Agile Project

        Along with inflation, I will cut corners - do little or no refactoring. ....

        Be careful you will get what you measure and most measures will hurt your quality.

        Cheers
        Mark Levison

        Blog | Twitter | Office: (613) 862-2538
      • Jay Conne
        Hey guys, how s this for a market driven alternative? Let business units bid on the teams they want to do their projects? That would cover many dimensions in
        Message 3 of 17 , Jul 1, 2010
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          Hey guys, how's this for a market driven alternative?

          Let business units bid on the teams they want to do their projects? That would cover many dimensions in one fell swoop. And as a balancing factor, have the teams bid on the projects. That would demonstrate earned trust both ways.

          What do you think :-) ?

          Paul, I'd like to see your research paper if you'd be so kind.

          Jay
          jay@...
          www.jconne.com

          --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Paul Tiseo <paul_tiseo@...> wrote:
          >
          > Mark:
          >
          > I totally understand and empathize with your disagreement with me, as I once thought similarly. But, personal experience and emerging research has shown me otherwise and I've always prized myself as being agile of mind, not just method.
          >
          > As for reference, I feel like I am alone in an echo chamber. Did you not participate in the June thread on raises and promotions? (Link in my last email if you need a refresher.) Did you not get the copy of the research paper PDF I sent you personally?
          >
          > I look forward to your blog piece.
          >
          > On 6/30/2010 11:48 AM, Mark Levison wrote:
          > >
          > > Thank you Paul - you've inspired me to write a blog post. A few points
          > > you've asserted on several of occasions that Dan Pink is wrong. Can
          > > you provide us with a reference to that effect? My experience and
          > > reading of the literature is that competition will destroy cooperation.
          > >
          > >
          > > Paul if you think otherwise baseline the teams in your business, run a
          > > competition and measure the results. I'm not going to risk running
          > > this experiment with my clients.
          > >
          > > Cheers
          > > Mark
          > _________________________________
          > *PAUL TISEO*
          > paul_tiseo@...
          >
        • Ilja Preuß
          That paper is actually supporting Pink s position, as it shows, as Pink says, that rewards and competition work *for tasks that don t need a lot of
          Message 4 of 17 , Jul 7, 2010
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            That paper is actually supporting Pink's position, as it shows, as Pink says, that rewards and competition work *for tasks that don't need a lot of creativity*.

            Take care, Ilja

            2010/6/30 Paul Tiseo <paul_tiseo@...>


            Mark:

            I totally understand and empathize with your disagreement with me, as I once thought similarly. But, personal experience and emerging research has shown me otherwise and I've always prized myself as being agile of mind, not just method.

            As for reference, I feel like I am alone in an echo chamber. Did you not participate in the June thread on raises and promotions? (Link in my last email if you need a refresher.) Did you not get the copy of the research paper PDF I sent you personally?

            I look forward to your blog piece.


            On 6/30/2010 11:48 AM, Mark Levison wrote:
             

            Thank you Paul - you've inspired me to write a blog post. A few points you've asserted on several of occasions that Dan Pink is wrong. Can you provide us with a reference to that effect? My experience and reading of the literature is that competition will destroy cooperation.


            Paul if you think otherwise baseline the teams in your business, run a competition and measure the results. I'm not going to risk running this experiment with my clients.

            Cheers
            Mark
            _________________________________

            PAUL TISEO
            paul_tiseo@...



          • Steven Janvrin
            My two cents - I asked the team (of which I am the CSM) what they thought of a Scrum team of the month award . Given that they are currently the only Scrum
            Message 5 of 17 , Jul 7, 2010
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              My two cents -
               
              I asked the team (of which I am the CSM) what they thought of a "Scrum team of the month award".  Given that they are currently the only Scrum team in my business unit they thought the idea was great.
               
              I then went on to ask "how would you feel if there were multiple Scrum teams and you didn't win the award?"  Their answer was "we'd be mad at them and wouldn't want to work with them."
               
              Not a scientific test, but in my mind a useful one.  I remain opposed to the concept of a "best Scrum team" and any associated award.
               
              Steve.
               

              To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
              From: iljapreuss@...
              Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 19:53:59 +0200
              Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Best scrum team award - good/bad?

               
              That paper is actually supporting Pink's position, as it shows, as Pink says, that rewards and competition work *for tasks that don't need a lot of creativity*.

              Take care, Ilja

              2010/6/30 Paul Tiseo <paul_tiseo@comcast. net>


              Mark:

              I totally understand and empathize with your disagreement with me, as I once thought similarly. But, personal experience and emerging research has shown me otherwise and I've always prized myself as being agile of mind, not just method.

              As for reference, I feel like I am alone in an echo chamber. Did you not participate in the June thread on raises and promotions? (Link in my last email if you need a refresher.) Did you not get the copy of the research paper PDF I sent you personally?

              I look forward to your blog piece.


              On 6/30/2010 11:48 AM, Mark Levison wrote:
               

              Thank you Paul - you've inspired me to write a blog post. A few points you've asserted on several of occasions that Dan Pink is wrong. Can you provide us with a reference to that effect? My experience and reading of the literature is that competition will destroy cooperation.


              Paul if you think otherwise baseline the teams in your business, run a competition and measure the results. I'm not going to risk running this experiment with my clients.

              Cheers
              Mark
              ____________ _________ _________ ___






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            • Jussi Mononen
              ... My 2 european cents ;-) we have an Innovation of the Month prize. Everyone is eligible, a single person or a team can receive this prize. The
              Message 6 of 17 , Jul 7, 2010
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                On 07/07/2010 09:10 PM, Steven Janvrin wrote:
                >
                > My two cents -
                >
                > I asked the team (of which I am the CSM) what they thought of a "Scrum
                > team of the month award". Given that they are currently the only Scrum
                > team in my business unit they thought the idea was great.
                >
                > I then went on to ask "how would you feel if there were multiple Scrum
                > teams and you didn't win the award?" Their answer was "we'd be mad at
                > them and wouldn't want to work with them."
                >
                > Not a scientific test, but in my mind a useful one. I remain opposed to
                > the concept of a "best Scrum team" and any associated award.

                My 2 european cents ;-)

                we have an "Innovation of the Month" prize. Everyone is eligible, a
                single person or a team can receive this prize.

                The "innovation" can be anything, a tool that helps to automate
                something previously manual, a new way of working, idea for a new
                component/product and so forth. The prize is usually movie tickets,
                lunch (paid by the firm) in a restaurant or a bottle of champagne.
                Nothing big nor financially substantial. And of course the innovator is
                mentioned in our monthly department meeting :-)

                Few examples of rewarded "innovations"

                * a new build script
                * idea to start to organize team lunches
                * finding an unknown and severe build issue
                * pair working experiment within a team

                The prize is still relatively new, but I can say that it has not caused
                /any/ competition between teams or individuals. I personally feel it
                works pretty well in encouraging the little things that make our daily
                work a little better and easier.

                Br,

                --
                - Agile Poodle
                - http://www.jussimononen.info/
                - http://www.twitter.com/agilepoodle
              • Michael James
                Here s one of the claims referenced by one of Pink s videos: • “In eight of the nine tasks we examined across the three experiments, higher incentives led
                Message 7 of 17 , Jul 7, 2010
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                  Here's one of the claims referenced by one of Pink's videos:

                  • “In eight of the nine tasks we examined across the three experiments, higher incentives led to worse performance. In fact, we were surprised by the robustness of the effect;”
                  • Dan Ariely, Uri Gneezy, George Loewenstein, and Nina Mazar (2005) “Large Stakes and Big Mistakes” Working Papers No. 5-011, Federal Reserve Bank of Boston

                  People may remember Dan Ariely as author of _Predictably Irrational: The Hidden Forces That Shape Our Decisions_. I believe the task where incentives led to higher performance was asking people to type the letters "b" and "v" in rapid succession.

                  --mj

                  On Jul 7, 2010, at 10:53 AM, Ilja Preuß wrote:

                  > That paper is actually supporting Pink's position, as it shows, as Pink says, that rewards and competition work *for tasks that don't need a lot of creativity*.
                  >
                  > Take care, Ilja
                  >
                  >
                  > 2010/6/30 Paul Tiseo <paul_tiseo@...>
                  >
                  >
                  > Mark:
                  >
                  > I totally understand and empathize with your disagreement with me, as I once thought similarly. But, personal experience and emerging research has shown me otherwise and I've always prized myself as being agile of mind, not just method.
                  >
                  > As for reference, I feel like I am alone in an echo chamber. Did you not participate in the June thread on raises and promotions? (Link in my last email if you need a refresher.) Did you not get the copy of the research paper PDF I sent you personally?
                  >
                  > I look forward to your blog piece.
                  >
                  >
                  > On 6/30/2010 11:48 AM, Mark Levison wrote:
                  >>
                  >> Thank you Paul - you've inspired me to write a blog post. A few points you've asserted on several of occasions that Dan Pink is wrong. Can you provide us with a reference to that effect? My experience and reading of the literature is that competition will destroy cooperation.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Paul if you think otherwise baseline the teams in your business, run a competition and measure the results. I'm not going to risk running this experiment with my clients.
                  >>
                  >> Cheers
                  >> Mark
                  > _________________________________
                  >
                  > PAUL TISEO
                  > paul_tiseo@...
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
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