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Re: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum/Agile Blog

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  • Peter Stevens (calendar)
    Bonjour Pierre, There are a couple aggregators out there. Here are the ones I see in my feedburner stats. * ScrumPlanet
    Message 1 of 24 , Jun 2 12:13 PM
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      Bonjour Pierre,

      There are a couple aggregators out there. Here are the ones I see in my feedburner stats.
      Each of these has a directory of their sources.

      Dzone has an agile tag, but does not AFAIK have an index of their sources.

      There may of course be more.

      Cheers,

      Peter

      On 02.06.10 11:57, Pierre Mengal wrote:  


      -- 
      Peter Stevens, CSM, CSPO, CSP
      www.scrum-breakfast.com
      tel: +41 44 586 6450 
      
    • Jeff Anderson
      What ever you do, don t go to agileconsulting.blospot.com, that guy is UMLing, RUP loving, kanban boarding, cycle timing a$$hole... Most definitely not
      Message 2 of 24 , Jun 2 4:11 PM
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        What ever you do, don't go to agileconsulting.blospot.com, that guy is
        UMLing, RUP loving, kanban boarding, cycle timing a$$hole...

        Most definitely not agile...

        On 6/2/10, Peter Stevens (calendar) <peterstev@...> wrote:
        > Bonjour Pierre,
        >
        > There are a couple aggregators out there. Here are the ones I see in my
        > feedburner stats.
        >
        > * ScrumPlanet <http://scrumplanet.com/aggregator/sources>
        > * Agile and Lean
        > <http://www.agileandlean.de/scrumandkanbanblogs/index.html>
        > * Agile Voices <http://agilevoices.com/aggregator/sources>
        >
        > Each of these has a directory of their sources.
        >
        > Dzone has an agile tag <http://www.dzone.com/links/tag/agile.html>, but
        > does not AFAIK have an index of their sources.
        >
        > There may of course be more.
        >
        > Cheers,
        >
        > Peter
        >
        > On 02.06.10 11:57, Pierre Mengal wrote:
        >> Hello,
        >> I would like to subscribe to some RSS feeds about Scrum and/or Agile.
        >> Could you please suggest me which one I should consider ? My Google
        >> Reader suggestion tool is not helping me so much ;)
        >> I'm not specifically looking for the most popular ones.
        >> Thanks a million.
        >>
        >> Warm regards,
        >>
        >> Pierre Mengal
        >> CSP
        >> .
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        > --
        > Peter Stevens, CSM, CSPO, CSP
        > www.scrum-breakfast.com
        > tel: +41 44 586 6450
        >
        >

        --
        Sent from my mobile device

        Jeff Anderson

        http://agileconsulting.blogspot.com/
      • Roy Morien
        My oh My! Such language!! And someone is an a$$hole because? I sure hope the answer is not that he is a UMLing, RUP loving, kanban boarding, cycle timing sort
        Message 3 of 24 , Jun 2 8:41 PM
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          My oh My! Such language!!
           
          And someone is an a$$hole because?
           
          I sure hope the answer is not that he is a UMLing, RUP loving, kanban boarding, cycle timing sort of guy. That would certainly be arguing ad hominem, which is quite a despicable way to carry on a discussion.
           
          Perhaps being UMLing, RUP loving, kanban boarding, cycle timing does imply that he ought not advertise himself as being 'agile', but then, that does not necessarilly follow.
           
          But Thanks for the 'head up'.  I will immediately go to that website and see what he is about. (which maks me wonder if you are in fact he, and this was a very cunning way to draw attetion to your website.
           
          Regards,
          Roy Morien
           

          To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
          From: Thomasjeffreyandersontwin@...
          Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 19:11:44 -0400
          Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum/Agile Blog

           
          What ever you do, don't go to agileconsulting.blospot.com, that guy is
          UMLing, RUP loving, kanban boarding, cycle timing a$$hole...

          Most definitely not agile...

          On 6/2/10, Peter Stevens (calendar) <peterstev@...> wrote:
          > Bonjour Pierre,
          >
          > There are a couple aggregators out there. Here are the ones I see in my
          > feedburner stats.
          >
          > * ScrumPlanet <http://scrumplanet.com/aggregator/sources>
          > * Agile and Lean
          > <http://www.agileandlean.de/scrumandkanbanblogs/index.html>
          > * Agile Voices <http://agilevoices.com/aggregator/sources>
          >
          > Each of these has a directory of their sources.
          >
          > Dzone has an agile tag <http://www.dzone.com/links/tag/agile.html>, but
          > does not AFAIK have an index of their sources.
          >
          > There may of course be more.
          >
          > Cheers,
          >
          > Peter
          >
          > On 02.06.10 11:57, Pierre Mengal wrote:
          >> Hello,
          >> I would like to subscribe to some RSS feeds about Scrum and/or Agile.
          >> Could you please suggest me which one I should consider ? My Google
          >> Reader suggestion tool is not helping me so much ;)
          >> I'm not specifically looking for the most popular ones.
          >> Thanks a million.
          >>
          >> Warm regards,
          >>
          >> Pierre Mengal
          >> CSP
          >> .
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          > --
          > Peter Stevens, CSM, CSPO, CSP
          > www.scrum-breakfast.com
          > tel: +41 44 586 6450
          >
          >

          --
          Sent from my mobile device

          Jeff Anderson

          http://agileconsulting.blogspot.com/



          Looking for a hot date? View photos of singles in your area!
        • Adam Sroka
          ... It would have been, if he had spelled the URL right :-D (he forgot the g in blog) But actually, I have read some of his stuff and it isn t bad.
          Message 4 of 24 , Jun 2 8:46 PM
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            On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 8:41 PM, Roy Morien <roymorien@...> wrote:
            >
            > But Thanks for the 'head up'.  I will immediately go to that website and see what he is about. (which maks me wonder if you are in fact he, and this was a very cunning way to draw attetion to your website.
            >

            It would have been, if he had spelled the URL right :-D (he forgot the
            'g' in blog)

            But actually, I have read some of his stuff and it isn't bad.
          • Ahmed ALmahdy
            Dears,   I believe that testing is not software testing only, but it should have a serious test to the value behind this software.   This picture may
            Message 5 of 24 , Jun 3 3:48 AM
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              Dears,
               
              I believe that "testing" is not software testing only, but it should have a serious test to the value behind this software.
               
              This picture may clarify my point of view
               
               
              I wonder, how can we test this value? I found an answer in Agile (scrum) which is sotry writing.
              Yes, the way of writing stories, I think we should use "so that" or "In order to" or similar templates but not sure if it is enough.
               
              Did you find any other practices that helped you to test the value behind the software from your client perspective ?
               
              Lately, we created a group for a focused discussion, I recommend it if you are interested.
               
              "Software and Value Testing"
               
              Best Regards,
              Ahmed

            • Wahlstedt Jyrki
              Hi, if one speaks about values in ethical sense, they should be sorted out before starting the project. Writing specs, user stories or testing doesn t help
              Message 6 of 24 , Jun 3 3:53 AM
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                Hi,

                if one speaks about values in ethical sense, they should be sorted out before starting the project. Writing specs, user stories or testing doesn’t help much there...

                 

                !

                ! Jyrki Wahlstedt

                !

                 

                From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ahmed ALmahdy
                Sent: 3. kesäkuuta 2010 13:49
                To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Is it ethical to test the software without testing the value behind it?

                 

                 

                Dears,

                 

                I believe that "testing" is not software testing only, but it should have a serious test to the value behind this software.

                 

                This picture may clarify my point of view

                 

                 

                I wonder, how can we test this value? I found an answer in Agile (scrum) which is sotry writing.

                Yes, the way of writing stories, I think we should use "so that" or "In order to" or similar templates but not sure if it is enough.

                 

                Did you find any other practices that helped you to test the value behind the software from your client perspective ?

                 

                Lately, we created a group for a focused discussion, I recommend it if you are interested.

                 

                "Software and Value Testing"

                 

                Best Regards,

                Ahmed

                 

              • Kevlin Henney
                ... Looking at the aims of the group, I think it may be unethical to confuse business acceptance with the notion of business value :^) However, what you pose
                Message 7 of 24 , Jun 3 5:21 AM
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                  On 3 June 2010 11:48, Ahmed ALmahdy <ahmed_abogh@...> wrote:
                   
                  I believe that "testing" is not software testing only, but it should have a serious test to the value behind this software.
                   
                  This picture may clarify my point of view
                   
                   
                  I wonder, how can we test this value? I found an answer in Agile (scrum) which is sotry writing.
                  Yes, the way of writing stories, I think we should use "so that" or "In order to" or similar templates but not sure if it is enough.
                   
                  Did you find any other practices that helped you to test the value behind the software from your client perspective ?
                   
                  Lately, we created a group for a focused discussion, I recommend it if you are interested.

                  Looking at the aims of the group, I think it may be unethical to confuse business acceptance with the notion of business value :^)

                  However, what you pose is not a question of ethics. Ethics enters into the claims you make about what you have: if you claim something beyond what you have demonstrated or something that you know to be false, that may be considered unethical. "This software works as promised, here are the tests" can be considered ethical in this sense, even if it turns out that we discover faults and misinterpretations. "We have no tests, so we don't know if this will work" is also ethical, although obviously unsatisfying. "This software works as promised, and is guaranteed to make us lots of money" cannot be demonstrated to be true at the time of the claim, and could be considered unethical as a result.

                  What is actually of value to a business is not necessarily the same as what it accepts via testing, no matter how brilliant or well conceived the tests are or how good the dialogue with the business over the requirements. Confusing this matter further with technical practices seems like pursuing the wrong path.

                  In most cases it is not possible to assess actual business value until after the fact. Yes, this can be tested, but it is not the same kind of test, nor is it from the same perspective, as practices such as Acceptance TDD.

                  Being able to predict the business value of software is like predicting the financial markets. Like NP-complete problems, if you figure out how to predict either of these, you've solved the prediction problem for all of them. This, of course, has interesting implications for the notion of prioritising by business value. You can prioritise up front with respect to belief or perception or anticipation of value to a business, but rarely with respect to actual value to a business. Although well meant, we need to adjust our vocabulary a little to avoid such grand claims!

                  Kevlin
                  --
                  ________________________

                   Kevlin Henney
                   +44 7801 073 508
                   http://curbralan.com
                   http://kevlin.tel
                  ________________________

                • Ahmed ALmahdy
                  Kevlin,   Your words make sense, I agree with you.   Then, we need to target what the customer really needs regardless of the business value as it depends
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jun 3 6:03 PM
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                    Kevlin,
                     
                    Your words make sense, I agree with you.
                     
                    Then, we need to target "what the customer really needs" regardless of the business value as it depends on other factors that are out of our hands.
                     


                    --- On Thu, 6/3/10, Kevlin Henney <kevlin.henney@...> wrote:

                    From: Kevlin Henney <kevlin.henney@...>
                    Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Is it ethical to test the software without testing the value behind it?
                    To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Thursday, June 3, 2010, 8:21 AM

                     
                    On 3 June 2010 11:48, Ahmed ALmahdy <ahmed_abogh@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                     
                    I believe that "testing" is not software testing only, but it should have a serious test to the value behind this software.
                     
                    This picture may clarify my point of view
                     
                     
                    I wonder, how can we test this value? I found an answer in Agile (scrum) which is sotry writing.
                    Yes, the way of writing stories, I think we should use "so that" or "In order to" or similar templates but not sure if it is enough.
                     
                    Did you find any other practices that helped you to test the value behind the software from your client perspective ?
                     
                    Lately, we created a group for a focused discussion, I recommend it if you are interested.

                    Looking at the aims of the group, I think it may be unethical to confuse business acceptance with the notion of business value :^)

                    However, what you pose is not a question of ethics. Ethics enters into the claims you make about what you have: if you claim something beyond what you have demonstrated or something that you know to be false, that may be considered unethical. "This software works as promised, here are the tests" can be considered ethical in this sense, even if it turns out that we discover faults and misinterpretations. "We have no tests, so we don't know if this will work" is also ethical, although obviously unsatisfying. "This software works as promised, and is guaranteed to make us lots of money" cannot be demonstrated to be true at the time of the claim, and could be considered unethical as a result.

                    What is actually of value to a business is not necessarily the same as what it accepts via testing, no matter how brilliant or well conceived the tests are or how good the dialogue with the business over the requirements. Confusing this matter further with technical practices seems like pursuing the wrong path.

                    In most cases it is not possible to assess actual business value until after the fact. Yes, this can be tested, but it is not the same kind of test, nor is it from the same perspective, as practices such as Acceptance TDD.

                    Being able to predict the business value of software is like predicting the financial markets. Like NP-complete problems, if you figure out how to predict either of these, you've solved the prediction problem for all of them. This, of course, has interesting implications for the notion of prioritising by business value. You can prioritise up front with respect to belief or perception or anticipation of value to a business, but rarely with respect to actual value to a business. Although well meant, we need to adjust our vocabulary a little to avoid such grand claims!

                    Kevlin
                    --
                    ____________ _________ ___

                     Kevlin Henney
                     +44 7801 073 508
                     http://curbralan. com
                     http://kevlin. tel
                    ____________ _________ ___


                  • Roy Morien
                    That s an interesting notion, that we need to target what the customer really wants regardless of business value. If there is no busness value in what the
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jun 3 8:58 PM
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                      That's an interesting notion, that we need to target what the customer really wants regardless of business value. If there is no busness value in what the customer really wants, then why would the customer really want it? This seems a bit like the 'need versus want' argument. I want a Rolex gold watch so I can tell the time, but do I really need it? My clunker of a mobile phone can tell me the time just as well as a $20,000 Rolex.
                       
                      Regards,
                      Roy Morien
                       

                      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                      From: ahmed_abogh@...
                      Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 18:03:52 -0700
                      Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Is it ethical to test the software without testing the value behind it?

                       
                      Kevlin,
                       
                      Your words make sense, I agree with you.
                       
                      Then, we need to target "what the customer really needs" regardless of the business value as it depends on other factors that are out of our hands.
                       


                      --- On Thu, 6/3/10, Kevlin Henney <kevlin.henney@ gmail.com> wrote:

                      From: Kevlin Henney <kevlin.henney@ gmail.com>
                      Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Is it ethical to test the software without testing the value behind it?
                      To: scrumdevelopment@ yahoogroups. com
                      Date: Thursday, June 3, 2010, 8:21 AM

                       
                      On 3 June 2010 11:48, Ahmed ALmahdy <ahmed_abogh@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                       
                      I believe that "testing" is not software testing only, but it should have a serious test to the value behind this software.
                       
                      This picture may clarify my point of view
                       
                       
                      I wonder, how can we test this value? I found an answer in Agile (scrum) which is sotry writing.
                      Yes, the way of writing stories, I think we should use "so that" or "In order to" or similar templates but not sure if it is enough.
                       
                      Did you find any other practices that helped you to test the value behind the software from your client perspective ?
                       
                      Lately, we created a group for a focused discussion, I recommend it if you are interested.

                      Looking at the aims of the group, I think it may be unethical to confuse business acceptance with the notion of business value :^)

                      However, what you pose is not a question of ethics. Ethics enters into the claims you make about what you have: if you claim something beyond what you have demonstrated or something that you know to be false, that may be considered unethical. "This software works as promised, here are the tests" can be considered ethical in this sense, even if it turns out that we discover faults and misinterpretations. "We have no tests, so we don't know if this will work" is also ethical, although obviously unsatisfying. "This software works as promised, and is guaranteed to make us lots of money" cannot be demonstrated to be true at the time of the claim, and could be considered unethical as a result.

                      What is actually of value to a business is not necessarily the same as what it accepts via testing, no matter how brilliant or well conceived the tests are or how good the dialogue with the business over the requirements. Confusing this matter further with technical practices seems like pursuing the wrong path.

                      In most cases it is not possible to assess actual business value until after the fact. Yes, this can be tested, but it is not the same kind of test, nor is it from the same perspective, as practices such as Acceptance TDD.

                      Being able to predict the business value of software is like predicting the financial markets. Like NP-complete problems, if you figure out how to predict either of these, you've solved the prediction problem for all of them. This, of course, has interesting implications for the notion of prioritising by business value. You can prioritise up front with respect to belief or perception or anticipation of value to a business, but rarely with respect to actual value to a business. Although well meant, we need to adjust our vocabulary a little to avoid such grand claims!

                      Kevlin
                      --
                      ____________ _________ ___

                       Kevlin Henney
                       +44 7801 073 508
                       http://curbralan. com
                       http://kevlin. tel
                      ____________ _________ ___





                      Find it at CarPoint.com.au New, Used, Demo, Dealer or Private?
                    • Pierre Mengal
                      @Mark, I just subscribed to your blog. I like InfoQ very much too. @Mark, @Adam: IMHO, author s blogs are generally very light, and that makes sense. It s not
                      Message 10 of 24 , Jun 4 2:14 AM
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                        @Mark, I just subscribed to your blog. I like InfoQ very much too.

                        @Mark, @Adam: IMHO, author's blogs are generally very light, and that makes sense. It's not specifically related to Scrum. I've observed that in many other fields. I prefer to buy their books ;) I think the perfect example of very valuable and effective author's blog is Seth Godin.

                        @Thais, Subscribed to that one too. Henrik has something very valuable: he uses Scrum in his own company -daily-. There is far too much Scrum coaches/trainer that stopped practicing.

                        @Peter: Merci!

                        @Jeff: When I go to the URL you provided, I get a google ads trap page. When I replace the s by a g (blogpot), what I get is funny. Finally, when I type blogspot, I get the correct page.


                        Warm regards,

                        Pierre Mengal


                        On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 1:11 AM, Jeff Anderson <Thomasjeffreyandersontwin@...> wrote:
                         

                        What ever you do, don't go to agileconsulting.blospot.com, that guy is
                        UMLing, RUP loving, kanban boarding, cycle timing a$$hole...

                        Most definitely not agile...



                        On 6/2/10, Peter Stevens (calendar) <peterstev@...> wrote:
                        > Bonjour Pierre,
                        >
                        > There are a couple aggregators out there. Here are the ones I see in my
                        > feedburner stats.
                        >
                        > * ScrumPlanet <http://scrumplanet.com/aggregator/sources>
                        > * Agile and Lean
                        > <http://www.agileandlean.de/scrumandkanbanblogs/index.html>
                        > * Agile Voices <http://agilevoices.com/aggregator/sources>

                        >
                        > Each of these has a directory of their sources.
                        >
                        > Dzone has an agile tag <http://www.dzone.com/links/tag/agile.html>, but

                        > does not AFAIK have an index of their sources.
                        >
                        > There may of course be more.
                        >
                        > Cheers,
                        >
                        > Peter
                        >
                        > On 02.06.10 11:57, Pierre Mengal wrote:
                        >> Hello,
                        >> I would like to subscribe to some RSS feeds about Scrum and/or Agile.
                        >> Could you please suggest me which one I should consider ? My Google
                        >> Reader suggestion tool is not helping me so much ;)
                        >> I'm not specifically looking for the most popular ones.
                        >> Thanks a million.
                        >>
                        >> Warm regards,
                        >>
                        >> Pierre Mengal
                        >> CSP
                        >> .
                        >>
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        > --

                        > Peter Stevens, CSM, CSPO, CSP
                        > www.scrum-breakfast.com
                        > tel: +41 44 586 6450
                        >
                        >

                        --
                        Sent from my mobile device

                        Jeff Anderson

                        http://agileconsulting.blogspot.com/

                      • Peter Stevens (cal)
                        On 04.06.10 11:14, Pierre Mengal wrote:   @Thais, Subscribed to that one too. Henrik has something very valuable: he uses Scrum in his own company -daily-.
                        Message 11 of 24 , Jun 4 2:19 AM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          On 04.06.10 11:14, Pierre Mengal wrote:  

                          @Thais, Subscribed to that one too. Henrik has something very valuable: he uses Scrum in his own company -daily-. There is far too much Scrum coaches/trainer that stopped practicing.

                          Rebonjour,

                          Interesting statement, Pierre! What are the symptoms of coach/trainer blogs who aren't practicing?

                          Cheers,

                          Peter
                          -- 
                          Peter Stevens, CSM, CSPO, CSP
                          Independent Scrum Trainer and Coach
                          Sierra-Charlie Consulting | Zurich | Switzerland
                          
                          Member of DasScrumTeam.de
                          
                          blog:  http://scrum-breakfast.com
                          tel:   +41 44 586 6450 
                          cell:  +41 79 422 6722
                          skype: peterstev
                        • Michael James
                          http://blogs.danube.com/author/michael-james http://blogs.danube.com/category/mjs-picks Also my twitter feed, for what it s worth:
                          Message 12 of 24 , Jun 4 9:39 AM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            http://blogs.danube.com/author/michael-james
                            http://blogs.danube.com/category/mjs-picks

                            Also my twitter feed, for what it's worth:
                            https://twitter.com/michaeldotjames

                            --mj

                            On Jun 4, 2010, at 2:14 AM, Pierre Mengal wrote:

                             

                            @Mark, I just subscribed to your blog. I like InfoQ very much too.

                            @Mark, @Adam: IMHO, author's blogs are generally very light, and that makes sense. It's not specifically related to Scrum. I've observed that in many other fields. I prefer to buy their books ;) I think the perfect example of very valuable and effective author's blog is Seth Godin.

                            @Thais, Subscribed to that one too. Henrik has something very valuable: he uses Scrum in his own company -daily-. There is far too much Scrum coaches/trainer that stopped practicing.

                            @Peter: Merci!

                            @Jeff: When I go to the URL you provided, I get a google ads trap page. When I replace the s by a g (blogpot), what I get is funny. Finally, when I type blogspot, I get the correct page.


                            Warm regards,

                            Pierre Mengal


                            On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 1:11 AM, Jeff Anderson <Thomasjeffreyanders ontwin@gmail. com> wrote:
                             

                            What ever you do, don't go to agileconsulting. blospot.com, that guy is
                            UMLing, RUP loving, kanban boarding, cycle timing a$$hole...

                            Most definitely not agile...



                            On 6/2/10, Peter Stevens (calendar) <peterstev@gmail. com> wrote:
                            > Bonjour Pierre,
                            >
                            > There are a couple aggregators out there. Here are the ones I see in my
                            > feedburner stats.
                            >
                            > * ScrumPlanet <http://scrumplanet. com/aggregator/ sources>
                            > * Agile and Lean
                            > <http://www.agileand lean.de/scrumand kanbanblogs/ index.html>
                            > * Agile Voices <http://agilevoices. com/aggregator/ sources>

                            >
                            > Each of these has a directory of their sources.
                            >
                            > Dzone has an agile tag <http://www.dzone. com/links/ tag/agile. html>, but

                            > does not AFAIK have an index of their sources.
                            >
                            > There may of course be more.
                            >
                            > Cheers,
                            >
                            > Peter
                            >
                            > On 02.06.10 11:57, Pierre Mengal wrote:
                            >> Hello,
                            >> I would like to subscribe to some RSS feeds about Scrum and/or Agile.
                            >> Could you please suggest me which one I should consider ? My Google
                            >> Reader suggestion tool is not helping me so much ;)
                            >> I'm not specifically looking for the most popular ones.
                            >> Thanks a million.
                            >>
                            >> Warm regards,
                            >>
                            >> Pierre Mengal
                            >> CSP
                            >> .
                            >>
                            >>
                            >
                            >
                            > --

                            > Peter Stevens, CSM, CSPO, CSP
                            > www.scrum-breakfast .com
                            > tel: +41 44 586 6450
                            >
                            >

                            --
                            Sent from my mobile device

                            Jeff Anderson

                            http://agileconsult ing.blogspot. com/



                          • Pierre Mengal
                            Peter, It s my personnal opinion and it s not specifically related to Scrum or Agile. The nature of my current professional occupation allows me to meet
                            Message 13 of 24 , Jun 4 2:05 PM
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                              Peter,
                               
                              It's my personnal opinion and it's not specifically related to Scrum or Agile.
                               
                              The nature of my current professional occupation allows me to meet coaches & trainers every week (in various fields, such as sales, marketing, development, finances, management, hr, etc...)...
                               
                              ... and the best ones are those who still eat their own dog food.

                              Warm regards,

                              Pierre Mengal


                              On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Peter Stevens (cal) <peterstev@...> wrote:
                               

                              On 04.06.10 11:14, Pierre Mengal wrote:
                               

                              @Thais, Subscribed to that one too. Henrik has something very valuable: he uses Scrum in his own company -daily-. There is far too much Scrum coaches/trainer that stopped practicing.

                              Rebonjour,

                              Interesting statement, Pierre! What are the symptoms of coach/trainer blogs who aren't practicing?

                              Cheers,

                              Peter
                              -- 
                              Peter Stevens, CSM, CSPO, CSP
                              Independent Scrum Trainer and Coach
                              Sierra-Charlie Consulting | Zurich | Switzerland
                              
                              Member of DasScrumTeam.de
                              
                              blog:  http://scrum-breakfast.com
                              tel:   +41 44 586 6450 
                              cell:  +41 79 422 6722
                              skype: peterstev


                            • Mark Levison
                              ... Perhaps but when your business is small say 1-4 people and your needs bounce from day to day, what does Agile look like? I try regular retrospectives, but
                              Message 14 of 24 , Jun 4 3:00 PM
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                                On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 5:05 PM, Pierre Mengal <pierre@...> wrote:
                                 

                                Peter,
                                 
                                It's my personnal opinion and it's not specifically related to Scrum or Agile.
                                 
                                The nature of my current professional occupation allows me to meet coaches & trainers every week (in various fields, such as sales, marketing, development, finances, management, hr, etc...)...
                                 
                                ... and the best ones are those who still eat their own dog food.

                                Perhaps but when your business is small say 1-4 people and your needs bounce from day to day, what does Agile look like? I try regular retrospectives, but with the day to pressure with out my own ScrumMaster/Coach somethings get missed. After what is Test Driven: Networking, Presentation Prep, Billing, ...

                                I've tried Kanban for personal process and while its close, it does yet suit my personal nature. Perhaps if I were part of team it would be easier.

                                Cheers
                                Mark
                              • Adam Sroka
                                I agree. I write code almost every day. I have to work a bit harder to find something that I think is worth doing since it is no longer directly my job.
                                Message 15 of 24 , Jun 4 3:26 PM
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                                  I agree. I write code almost every day. I have to work a bit harder to find something that I think is worth doing since it is no longer directly my job. However, I also get to do more interesting stuff (Business problems can be boring ;-)

                                  I'm still not the best programmer I know, but I think I'm the best that I can be today, and I think it would be unethical of me to sell what I sell if it were otherwise.

                                  On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Pierre Mengal <pierre@...> wrote:
                                   

                                  Peter,
                                   
                                  It's my personnal opinion and it's not specifically related to Scrum or Agile.
                                   
                                  The nature of my current professional occupation allows me to meet coaches & trainers every week (in various fields, such as sales, marketing, development, finances, management, hr, etc...)...
                                   
                                  ... and the best ones are those who still eat their own dog food.

                                  Warm regards,

                                  Pierre Mengal


                                  On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Peter Stevens (cal) <peterstev@...> wrote:
                                   

                                  On 04.06.10 11:14, Pierre Mengal wrote:
                                   

                                  @Thais, Subscribed to that one too. Henrik has something very valuable: he uses Scrum in his own company -daily-. There is far too much Scrum coaches/trainer that stopped practicing.

                                  Rebonjour,

                                  Interesting statement, Pierre! What are the symptoms of coach/trainer blogs who aren't practicing?

                                  Cheers,

                                  Peter
                                  -- 
                                  Peter Stevens, CSM, CSPO, CSP
                                  Independent Scrum Trainer and Coach
                                  Sierra-Charlie Consulting | Zurich | Switzerland
                                  
                                  Member of DasScrumTeam.de
                                  
                                  blog:  http://scrum-breakfast.com
                                  tel:   +41 44 586 6450 
                                  cell:  +41 79 422 6722
                                  skype: peterstev



                                • Bachan Anand
                                  Yes Mark you are right , if we were part of a team it would be easier and for me it makes a lot of sense for coaches and consultants to team up. I always focus
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Jun 4 3:39 PM
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                                    Yes Mark you are right , if we were part of a team it would be easier and for me it makes a lot of sense for coaches and consultants to team up. I always focus on building teams to work together and collaborate .

                                    I leverage task board, retrospectives and stand-ups.

                                    Bachan Anand
                                    WORK is GOOD
                                    Tel  +1-949-232-8900
                                    Contact Me LinkedinFacebookFacebookTwitter


                                    On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 3:00 PM, Mark Levison <mark@...> wrote:
                                     

                                    On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 5:05 PM, Pierre Mengal <pierre@...> wrote:
                                     

                                    Peter,
                                     
                                    It's my personnal opinion and it's not specifically related to Scrum or Agile.
                                     
                                    The nature of my current professional occupation allows me to meet coaches & trainers every week (in various fields, such as sales, marketing, development, finances, management, hr, etc...)...
                                     
                                    ... and the best ones are those who still eat their own dog food.

                                    Perhaps but when your business is small say 1-4 people and your needs bounce from day to day, what does Agile look like? I try regular retrospectives, but with the day to pressure with out my own ScrumMaster/Coach somethings get missed. After what is Test Driven: Networking, Presentation Prep, Billing, ...

                                    I've tried Kanban for personal process and while its close, it does yet suit my personal nature. Perhaps if I were part of team it would be easier.

                                    Cheers
                                    Mark

                                  • Jeff Anderson
                                    Lol, You caught me, here I thought I was being clever... Jeff ... -- Sent from my mobile device Jeff Anderson http://agileconsulting.blogspot.com/
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Jun 7 5:22 PM
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Lol,

                                      You caught me, here I thought I was being clever...

                                      Jeff

                                      On 6/2/10, Roy Morien <roymorien@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > My oh My! Such language!!
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > And someone is an a$$hole because?
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > I sure hope the answer is not that he is a UMLing, RUP loving, kanban
                                      > boarding, cycle timing sort of guy. That would certainly be arguing ad
                                      > hominem, which is quite a despicable way to carry on a discussion.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Perhaps being UMLing, RUP loving, kanban boarding, cycle timing does imply
                                      > that he ought not advertise himself as being 'agile', but then, that does
                                      > not necessarilly follow.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > But Thanks for the 'head up'. I will immediately go to that website and see
                                      > what he is about. (which maks me wonder if you are in fact he, and this was
                                      > a very cunning way to draw attetion to your website.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Regards,
                                      >
                                      > Roy Morien
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                                      > From: Thomasjeffreyandersontwin@...
                                      > Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 19:11:44 -0400
                                      > Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum/Agile Blog
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > What ever you do, don't go to agileconsulting.blospot.com, that guy is
                                      > UMLing, RUP loving, kanban boarding, cycle timing a$$hole...
                                      >
                                      > Most definitely not agile...
                                      >
                                      > On 6/2/10, Peter Stevens (calendar) <peterstev@...> wrote:
                                      >> Bonjour Pierre,
                                      >>
                                      >> There are a couple aggregators out there. Here are the ones I see in my
                                      >> feedburner stats.
                                      >>
                                      >> * ScrumPlanet <http://scrumplanet.com/aggregator/sources>
                                      >> * Agile and Lean
                                      >> <http://www.agileandlean.de/scrumandkanbanblogs/index.html>
                                      >> * Agile Voices <http://agilevoices.com/aggregator/sources>
                                      >>
                                      >> Each of these has a directory of their sources.
                                      >>
                                      >> Dzone has an agile tag <http://www.dzone.com/links/tag/agile.html>, but
                                      >> does not AFAIK have an index of their sources.
                                      >>
                                      >> There may of course be more.
                                      >>
                                      >> Cheers,
                                      >>
                                      >> Peter
                                      >>
                                      >> On 02.06.10 11:57, Pierre Mengal wrote:
                                      >>> Hello,
                                      >>> I would like to subscribe to some RSS feeds about Scrum and/or Agile.
                                      >>> Could you please suggest me which one I should consider ? My Google
                                      >>> Reader suggestion tool is not helping me so much ;)
                                      >>> I'm not specifically looking for the most popular ones.
                                      >>> Thanks a million.
                                      >>>
                                      >>> Warm regards,
                                      >>>
                                      >>> Pierre Mengal
                                      >>> CSP
                                      >>> .
                                      >>>
                                      >>>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >> --
                                      >> Peter Stevens, CSM, CSPO, CSP
                                      >> www.scrum-breakfast.com
                                      >> tel: +41 44 586 6450
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      > --
                                      > Sent from my mobile device
                                      >
                                      > Jeff Anderson
                                      >
                                      > http://agileconsulting.blogspot.com/
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > _________________________________________________________________
                                      > View photos of singles in your area! Looking for a hot date?
                                      > http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/150855801/direct/01/

                                      --
                                      Sent from my mobile device

                                      Jeff Anderson

                                      http://agileconsulting.blogspot.com/
                                    • Roy Morien
                                      yeah To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com From: Thomasjeffreyandersontwin@Gmail.com Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 20:22:58 -0400 Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment]
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Jun 8 12:28 AM
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                         yeah
                                         

                                        To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                                        From: Thomasjeffreyandersontwin@...
                                        Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 20:22:58 -0400
                                        Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum/Agile Blog

                                         
                                        Lol,

                                        You caught me, here I thought I was being clever...

                                        Jeff

                                        On 6/2/10, Roy Morien <roymorien@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > My oh My! Such language!!
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > And someone is an a$$hole because?
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > I sure hope the answer is not that he is a UMLing, RUP loving, kanban
                                        > boarding, cycle timing sort of guy. That would certainly be arguing ad
                                        > hominem, which is quite a despicable way to carry on a discussion.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Perhaps being UMLing, RUP loving, kanban boarding, cycle timing does imply
                                        > that he ought not advertise himself as being 'agile', but then, that does
                                        > not necessarilly follow.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > But Thanks for the 'head up'. I will immediately go to that website and see
                                        > what he is about. (which maks me wonder if you are in fact he, and this was
                                        > a very cunning way to draw attetion to your website.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Regards,
                                        >
                                        > Roy Morien
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                                        > From: Thomasjeffreyandersontwin@...
                                        > Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 19:11:44 -0400
                                        > Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum/Agile Blog
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > What ever you do, don't go to agileconsulting.blospot.com, that guy is
                                        > UMLing, RUP loving, kanban boarding, cycle timing a$$hole...
                                        >
                                        > Most definitely not agile...
                                        >
                                        > On 6/2/10, Peter Stevens (calendar) <peterstev@...> wrote:
                                        >> Bonjour Pierre,
                                        >>
                                        >> There are a couple aggregators out there. Here are the ones I see in my
                                        >> feedburner stats.
                                        >>
                                        >> * ScrumPlanet <http://scrumplanet.com/aggregator/sources>
                                        >> * Agile and Lean
                                        >> <http://www.agileandlean.de/scrumandkanbanblogs/index.html>
                                        >> * Agile Voices <http://agilevoices.com/aggregator/sources>
                                        >>
                                        >> Each of these has a directory of their sources.
                                        >>
                                        >> Dzone has an agile tag <http://www.dzone.com/links/tag/agile.html>, but
                                        >> does not AFAIK have an index of their sources.
                                        >>
                                        >> There may of course be more.
                                        >>
                                        >> Cheers,
                                        >>
                                        >> Peter
                                        >>
                                        >> On 02.06.10 11:57, Pierre Mengal wrote:
                                        >>> Hello,
                                        >>> I would like to subscribe to some RSS feeds about Scrum and/or Agile.
                                        >>> Could you please suggest me which one I should consider ? My Google
                                        >>> Reader suggestion tool is not helping me so much ;)
                                        >>> I'm not specifically looking for the most popular ones.
                                        >>> Thanks a million.
                                        >>>
                                        >>> Warm regards,
                                        >>>
                                        >>> Pierre Mengal
                                        >>> CSP
                                        >>> .
                                        >>>
                                        >>>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >> --
                                        >> Peter Stevens, CSM, CSPO, CSP
                                        >> www.scrum-breakfast.com
                                        >> tel: +41 44 586 6450
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        > --
                                        > Sent from my mobile device
                                        >
                                        > Jeff Anderson
                                        >
                                        > http://agileconsulting.blogspot.com/
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > __________________________________________________________
                                        > View photos of singles in your area! Looking for a hot date?
                                        > http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/150855801/direct/01/

                                        --
                                        Sent from my mobile device

                                        Jeff Anderson

                                        http://agileconsulting.blogspot.com/



                                        Looking for a hot date? View photos of singles in your area!
                                      • Pierre Mengal
                                        On Dzone, I got this article today: http://www.dzone.com/links/rss/scrum_is_a_flow_state_interrupter.html Warm regards, Pierre Mengal On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Jun 8 8:57 AM
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          On Dzone, I got this article today:

                                          http://www.dzone.com/links/rss/scrum_is_a_flow_state_interrupter.html

                                          Warm regards,

                                          Pierre Mengal


                                          On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 9:13 PM, Peter Stevens (calendar) <peterstev@...> wrote:
                                           

                                          Bonjour Pierre,

                                          There are a couple aggregators out there. Here are the ones I see in my feedburner stats.

                                          Each of these has a directory of their sources.

                                          Dzone has an agile tag, but does not AFAIK have an index of their sources.

                                          There may of course be more.

                                          Cheers,

                                          Peter

                                          On 02.06.10 11:57, Pierre Mengal wrote:
                                           


                                          -- 
                                          Peter Stevens, CSM, CSPO, CSP
                                          www.scrum-breakfast.com
                                          tel: +41 44 586 6450 
                                          

                                        • Jeff Anderson
                                          Just read the complete trail, and jeff dude can t even type, what a ... Here we go again... Agileconsulting.blogspot.com ... -- Sent from my mobile device Jeff
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Jun 8 1:29 PM
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Just read the complete trail, and jeff dude can't even type, what a ...

                                            Here we go again...

                                            Agileconsulting.blogspot.com




                                            On 6/8/10, Pierre Mengal <pierre@...> wrote:
                                            > On Dzone, I got this article today:
                                            >
                                            > http://www.dzone.com/links/rss/scrum_is_a_flow_state_interrupter.html
                                            >
                                            > Warm regards,
                                            >
                                            > Pierre Mengal
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 9:13 PM, Peter Stevens (calendar) <
                                            > peterstev@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >> Bonjour Pierre,
                                            >>
                                            >> There are a couple aggregators out there. Here are the ones I see in my
                                            >> feedburner stats.
                                            >>
                                            >> - ScrumPlanet <http://scrumplanet.com/aggregator/sources>
                                            >> - Agile and
                                            >> Lean<http://www.agileandlean.de/scrumandkanbanblogs/index.html>
                                            >> - Agile Voices <http://agilevoices.com/aggregator/sources>
                                            >>
                                            >> Each of these has a directory of their sources.
                                            >>
                                            >> Dzone has an agile tag <http://www.dzone.com/links/tag/agile.html>, but
                                            >> does not AFAIK have an index of their sources.
                                            >>
                                            >> There may of course be more.
                                            >>
                                            >> Cheers,
                                            >>
                                            >> Peter
                                            >>
                                            >> On 02.06.10 11:57, Pierre Mengal wrote:
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >> --
                                            >> Peter Stevens, CSM, CSPO, CSPwww.scrum-breakfast.com
                                            >> tel: +41 44 586 6450
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >

                                            --
                                            Sent from my mobile device

                                            Jeff Anderson

                                            http://agileconsulting.blogspot.com/
                                          • Jussi Mononen
                                            ... Hi, Jurgen Appelo has done some great work with blog gathering and ranking, you should go and see!
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Jun 11 1:06 PM
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              On 06/02/2010 12:57 PM, Pierre Mengal wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Hello,
                                              > I would like to subscribe to some RSS feeds about Scrum and/or Agile.
                                              > Could you please suggest me which one I should consider ? My Google
                                              > Reader suggestion tool is not helping me so much ;)
                                              > I'm not specifically looking for the most popular ones.

                                              Hi,

                                              Jurgen Appelo has done some great work with blog gathering and ranking,
                                              you should go and see!

                                              http://www.noop.nl/2009/09/top-200-blogs-for-developers-q3-2009.html
                                              http://www.noop.nl/2010/04/top-150-management-leadership-blogs.html

                                              OPML-files included, so just d/l and import to your favourite reader.

                                              Br,

                                              --
                                              - Agile Poodle
                                              - http://www.jussimononen.info/
                                              - http://www.twitter.com/agilepoodle
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