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Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Status Reporting, scheduling & estimation inScrum

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  • Dan Rawsthorne
    I like to say later than expected rather than later than planned -- expectation rather than plan... discuss... Dan Rawsthorne, PhD, CST Senior
    Message 1 of 24 , Jun 1, 2010
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      I like to say "later than expected" rather than "later than planned" --
      expectation rather than plan... discuss...

      Dan Rawsthorne, PhD, CST
      Senior Trainer/Coach, CollabNet
      drawsthorne@..., 425-269-8628



      sep wrote:
      >
      > "Late" is perfectly reasonable and descriptive - it means "no longer
      > expected to be complete at the planned release date". You just need to
      > remember that it isn't pejorative.
      >
      > You also need to be continuously (at least each sprint) considering
      > the statistics Mark mentions below and considering whether it's more
      > important to include all the planned features or to deliver on the
      > planned date, and adjust one knob (date) or the other (scope).
      >
      > regards,
      >
      > scott
      >
      > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:scrumdevelopment%40yahoogroups.com>, "woynam" <woyna@...> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > My first suggestion is to stop saying that your project is late. I'm
      > guessing that the project is probably where it should be, and the
      > initial estimate was too optimistic.
      > >
      > > See, by saying that the project is late you're buying into the myth
      > that one can accurately predict the future. If the project is "behind
      > schedule", it must be the fault of the team, as the plan says we're
      > supposed to be done, and the plan can't be wrong, now can it?
      > >
      > > So, start by firing the person who said the project could be done in
      > the original time frame. That will boost the moral of the team. :-)
      > >
      > > How many features do you have done? What's the combined size
      > (measured in story points) for the completed features? How big is the
      > remaining backlog? Assuming you have to complete all features in the
      > backlog, you can easily use velocity to calculate the time needed to
      > complete the backlog, and the final cost. Of course, if you want to
      > save time and money, you'll skip some of the low priority features.
      > >
      > > Mark
      > >
      > > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:scrumdevelopment%40yahoogroups.com>, anwars78@ wrote:
      > > >
      > > > ok,
      > > >
      > > > Currently, I still manage project which already late for 1 years.
      > I just involving in the middle of project, and planning to adapt scrum.
      > > >
      > > > As part of management report, I shall also provide estimate cost
      > at completion, that sure for worst case scenario. Traditionally I will
      > use earn value estimation for estimate cost at completion, so I get
      > curious, if I can this technique also in scrum.
      > > >
      > > > I am listening and look forward for advice and suggestion.
      > > >
      > > > Regards
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Anwar Sadat. Agile Project Management. Indonesia. +6281321666510
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > -----Original Message-----
      > > > From: Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@>
      > > > Sender: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:scrumdevelopment%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > > Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 21:54:29
      > > > To: <scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:scrumdevelopment%40yahoogroups.com>>
      > > > Reply-To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:scrumdevelopment%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > > Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Status Reporting, scheduling &
      > estimation inScrum
      > > >
      > > > Hello, Anwars78. On Sunday, May 30, 2010, at 9:48:27 PM, you
      > > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > > Is there a way to calculate estimate cost at completion?
      > > >
      > > > ??? Please try to phrase this in some other way.
      > > >
      > > > Ron Jeffries
      > > > www.XProgramming.com
      > > > www.xprogramming.com/blog
      > > > A long range weather forecast should be obtained before leaving,
      > > > as weather conditions are extremely unpredictable. --Natal Daily News
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ------------------------------------
      > > >
      > > > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@
      > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
      > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@! Groups Links
      > > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > =======
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    • woynam
      Late != Later than planned. If it s later than planned, then say so. I ve seen too many cases where late really meant you guys screwed up , and it was not
      Message 2 of 24 , Jun 1, 2010
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        Late != Later than planned. If it's later than planned, then say so. I've seen too many cases where "late" really meant "you guys screwed up", and it was not directed towards the planners.

        Mark

        --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "sep" <sepreece@...> wrote:
        >
        > "Late" is perfectly reasonable and descriptive - it means "no longer expected to be complete at the planned release date". You just need to remember that it isn't pejorative.
        >
        > You also need to be continuously (at least each sprint) considering the statistics Mark mentions below and considering whether it's more important to include all the planned features or to deliver on the planned date, and adjust one knob (date) or the other (scope).
        >
        > regards,
        >
        > scott
        >
        > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "woynam" <woyna@> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > My first suggestion is to stop saying that your project is late. I'm guessing that the project is probably where it should be, and the initial estimate was too optimistic.
        > >
        > > See, by saying that the project is late you're buying into the myth that one can accurately predict the future. If the project is "behind schedule", it must be the fault of the team, as the plan says we're supposed to be done, and the plan can't be wrong, now can it?
        > >
        > > So, start by firing the person who said the project could be done in the original time frame. That will boost the moral of the team. :-)
        > >
        > > How many features do you have done? What's the combined size (measured in story points) for the completed features? How big is the remaining backlog? Assuming you have to complete all features in the backlog, you can easily use velocity to calculate the time needed to complete the backlog, and the final cost. Of course, if you want to save time and money, you'll skip some of the low priority features.
        > >
        > > Mark
        > >
        > > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, anwars78@ wrote:
        > > >
        > > > ok,
        > > >
        > > > Currently, I still manage project which already late for 1 years. I just involving in the middle of project, and planning to adapt scrum.
        > > >
        > > > As part of management report, I shall also provide estimate cost at completion, that sure for worst case scenario. Traditionally I will use earn value estimation for estimate cost at completion, so I get curious, if I can this technique also in scrum.
        > > >
        > > > I am listening and look forward for advice and suggestion.
        > > >
        > > > Regards
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Anwar Sadat. Agile Project Management. Indonesia. +6281321666510
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > -----Original Message-----
        > > > From: Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@>
        > > > Sender: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 21:54:29
        > > > To: <scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com>
        > > > Reply-To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Status Reporting, scheduling & estimation inScrum
        > > >
        > > > Hello, Anwars78. On Sunday, May 30, 2010, at 9:48:27 PM, you
        > > > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > > Is there a way to calculate estimate cost at completion?
        > > >
        > > > ??? Please try to phrase this in some other way.
        > > >
        > > > Ron Jeffries
        > > > www.XProgramming.com
        > > > www.xprogramming.com/blog
        > > > A long range weather forecast should be obtained before leaving,
        > > > as weather conditions are extremely unpredictable. --Natal Daily News
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ------------------------------------
        > > >
        > > > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@
        > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@! Groups Links
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • George Dinwiddie
        Hi, Mark, ... I like to say, the schedule is ahead of reality. I think it puts things in the proper perspective. - George -- ... * George Dinwiddie *
        Message 3 of 24 , Jun 1, 2010
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          Hi, Mark,

          woynam wrote:
          > My first suggestion is to stop saying that your project is late. I'm
          > guessing that the project is probably where it should be, and the
          > initial estimate was too optimistic.
          >
          > See, by saying that the project is late you're buying into the myth
          > that one can accurately predict the future. If the project is "behind
          > schedule", it must be the fault of the team, as the plan says we're
          > supposed to be done, and the plan can't be wrong, now can it?

          I like to say, "the schedule is ahead of reality." I think it puts
          things in the proper perspective.

          - George

          --
          ----------------------------------------------------------------------
          * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
          Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
          Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
          ----------------------------------------------------------------------
        • woynam
          Nice! :-)
          Message 4 of 24 , Jun 2, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Nice! :-)


            --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, George Dinwiddie <lists@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi, Mark,
            >
            > woynam wrote:
            > > My first suggestion is to stop saying that your project is late. I'm
            > > guessing that the project is probably where it should be, and the
            > > initial estimate was too optimistic.
            > >
            > > See, by saying that the project is late you're buying into the myth
            > > that one can accurately predict the future. If the project is "behind
            > > schedule", it must be the fault of the team, as the plan says we're
            > > supposed to be done, and the plan can't be wrong, now can it?
            >
            > I like to say, "the schedule is ahead of reality." I think it puts
            > things in the proper perspective.
            >
            > - George
            >
            > --
            > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
            > * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
            > Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
            > Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
            > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
            >
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