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Scrum master's effort tracking

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  • poojawandile
    Hi, I have a query on scrum master s effort tracking. If a project has dedicated scrum master who is not doing any development tasks, but only monitoring Scrum
    Message 1 of 17 , Apr 19, 2010
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      Hi,
      I have a query on scrum master's effort tracking.
      If a project has dedicated scrum master who is not doing any development tasks, but only monitoring Scrum process, do we have to consider his effort while calculating velocity? How and where his effort gets accounted?

      Thanks,
      Pooja
    • Ron Jeffries
      Hello, poojawandile. On Monday, April 19, 2010, at 6:33:32 AM, ... Velocity is the number of stories completed per unit time. It does not include any measure
      Message 2 of 17 , Apr 19, 2010
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        Hello, poojawandile. On Monday, April 19, 2010, at 6:33:32 AM,
        you wrote:

        > I have a query on scrum master's effort tracking.
        > If a project has dedicated scrum master who is not doing any
        > development tasks, but only monitoring Scrum process, do we have
        > to consider his effort while calculating velocity? How and where his effort gets accounted?

        Velocity is the number of stories completed per unit time. It does
        not include any measure of "effort".

        Ron Jeffries
        www.XProgramming.com
        www.xprogramming.com/blog
        If you don't push something beyond its boundary of usefulness
        how do you find where that boundary is? -- Martin Fowler
      • Roy Morien
        What is velocity ? It is a measure of the amount of development achieved by the team in a sprint, measured in whatever unit of measurement the team has
        Message 3 of 17 , Apr 19, 2010
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          What is 'velocity'?  It is a measure of the amount of development achieved by the team in a sprint, measured in whatever unit of measurement the team has decided ... user story points, whatever.
           
          So there is no concept of including anyone's 'effort' or 'time', just development achievement as measured.
           
          Presumably the project is being costed, so the Scrum Master's cost would be included in the project cost. And project cost has nothing to do with measuring team velocity.
           
          Any attempt at measuring 'productivity' using 'velocity' is irrelevant and useless too.
           
          Regards,
          Roy Morien
           

          To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
          From: poojawandile@...
          Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 10:33:32 +0000
          Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum master's effort tracking

           
          Hi,
          I have a query on scrum master's effort tracking.
          If a project has dedicated scrum master who is not doing any development tasks, but only monitoring Scrum process, do we have to consider his effort while calculating velocity? How and where his effort gets accounted?

          Thanks,
          Pooja




          Australia's #1 job site If It Exists, You'll Find it on SEEK
        • Shaik Mohammed Saheb
          Pooja, Why do we need effort to calculate velocity ? Cheers, Shaik
          Message 4 of 17 , Apr 19, 2010
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            Pooja,

            Why do we need "effort" to calculate "velocity"?

            Cheers,
            Shaik


            On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 4:03 PM, poojawandile <poojawandile@...> wrote:
             

            Hi,
            I have a query on scrum master's effort tracking.
            If a project has dedicated scrum master who is not doing any development tasks, but only monitoring Scrum process, do we have to consider his effort while calculating velocity? How and where his effort gets accounted?

            Thanks,
            Pooja


          • Wouter Lagerweij
            Hi, We do adjust our expected velocity (so the amount of work taken into a sprint) based on availability of team members. That means that if a team member is
            Message 5 of 17 , Apr 19, 2010
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              Hi,

              We do adjust our expected velocity (so the amount of work taken into a sprint) based on availability of team members. That means that if a team member is on holiday for half of the sprint, we subtract a part of the expected velocity: ie. 12 points instead of 15, if one team member of a 5 person team is absent.

              If the Scrum Master is not in, other team members usually have to pick-up at least part of his tasks, and we take that out of our expected velocity: one developer is going to be spending 50% of his time on scrum master tasks, so substract about two points.

              Note that all this happens in the Sprint Planning meeting, and is not done as an exact calculation: we look at availability and simply adjust the expected amount of storypoints we can handle downward until we think it seems right. In an earlier team I have done this more strictly (calculate 'effective' velocity based on nr. of storypoints set against the percentage of availability) but that turned out to not be more accurate then what we're doing now.

              Wouter


              On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 12:40 PM, Roy Morien <roymorien@...> wrote:
               

              What is 'velocity'?  It is a measure of the amount of development achieved by the team in a sprint, measured in whatever unit of measurement the team has decided ... user story points, whatever.
               
              So there is no concept of including anyone's 'effort' or 'time', just development achievement as measured.
               
              Presumably the project is being costed, so the Scrum Master's cost would be included in the project cost. And project cost has nothing to do with measuring team velocity.
               
              Any attempt at measuring 'productivity' using 'velocity' is irrelevant and useless too.
               
              Regards,
              Roy Morien
               


              To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
              From: poojawandile@...
              Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 10:33:32 +0000
              Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum master's effort tracking

               
              Hi,
              I have a query on scrum master's effort tracking.
              If a project has dedicated scrum master who is not doing any development tasks, but only monitoring Scrum process, do we have to consider his effort while calculating velocity? How and where his effort gets accounted?

              Thanks,
              Pooja




              Australia's #1 job site If It Exists, You'll Find it on SEEK


            • poojawandile
              ... I am looking at other way round. The team has Scrum master whose job is to ensure that scrum process is followed by the team. When user stories are picked
              Message 6 of 17 , Apr 19, 2010
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                >If the Scrum Master is not in, other team members usually have to pick-up at least part of his tasks>
                I am looking at other way round. The team has Scrum master whose job is to ensure that scrum process is followed by the team. When user stories are picked by team members, he is not comitting to any story because he is not taking up any development tasks. So there are no user stories against his name. When team velocity is calculated how is the scrum master's work get accounted for/looked at in absence of any user story for him? My main concern is how does a scrum master justify his/her role when no user story is committed by him.

                Thanks,
                Pooja



                --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Wouter Lagerweij <wouter@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi,
                >
                > We do adjust our expected velocity (so the amount of work taken into a
                > sprint) based on availability of team members. That means that if a team
                > member is on holiday for half of the sprint, we subtract a part of the
                > expected velocity: ie. 12 points instead of 15, if one team member of a 5
                > person team is absent.
                >
                > If the Scrum Master is not in, other team members usually have to pick-up at
                > least part of his tasks, and we take that out of our expected velocity: one
                > developer is going to be spending 50% of his time on scrum master tasks, so
                > substract about two points.
                >
                > Note that all this happens in the Sprint Planning meeting, and is not done
                > as an exact calculation: we look at availability and simply adjust the
                > expected amount of storypoints we can handle downward until we think it
                > seems right. In an earlier team I have done this more strictly (calculate
                > 'effective' velocity based on nr. of storypoints set against the percentage
                > of availability) but that turned out to not be more accurate then what we're
                > doing now.
                >
                > Wouter
                >
                >
                > On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 12:40 PM, Roy Morien <roymorien@...> wrote:
                >
                > >
                > >
                > > What is 'velocity'? It is a measure of the amount of development achieved
                > > by the team in a sprint, measured in whatever unit of measurement the team
                > > has decided ... user story points, whatever.
                > >
                > > So there is no concept of including anyone's 'effort' or 'time', just
                > > development achievement as measured.
                > >
                > > Presumably the project is being costed, so the Scrum Master's cost would be
                > > included in the project cost. And project cost has nothing to do with
                > > measuring team velocity.
                > >
                > > Any attempt at measuring 'productivity' using 'velocity' is irrelevant and
                > > useless too.
                > >
                > > Regards,
                > > Roy Morien
                > >
                > > ------------------------------
                > > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                > > From: poojawandile@...
                > > Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 10:33:32 +0000
                > > Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum master's effort tracking
                > >
                > >
                > > Hi,
                > > I have a query on scrum master's effort tracking.
                > > If a project has dedicated scrum master who is not doing any development
                > > tasks, but only monitoring Scrum process, do we have to consider his effort
                > > while calculating velocity? How and where his effort gets accounted?
                > >
                > > Thanks,
                > > Pooja
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------
                > > Australia's #1 job site If It Exists, You'll Find it on SEEK<http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157639755/direct/01/>
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
              • poojawandile
                ok, sorry, i put it wrongly, i didn t mean effort but the work scrum master does in the project other than the development tasks. pooja
                Message 7 of 17 , Apr 19, 2010
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                  ok, sorry, i put it wrongly, i didn't mean effort but the work scrum master does in the project other than the development tasks.

                  pooja

                  --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Shaik Mohammed Saheb <shaikms@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Pooja,
                  >
                  > Why do we need "effort" to calculate "velocity"?
                  >
                  > Cheers,
                  > Shaik
                  >
                  >
                  > On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 4:03 PM, poojawandile <poojawandile@...>wrote:
                  >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Hi,
                  > > I have a query on scrum master's effort tracking.
                  > > If a project has dedicated scrum master who is not doing any development
                  > > tasks, but only monitoring Scrum process, do we have to consider his effort
                  > > while calculating velocity? How and where his effort gets accounted?
                  > >
                  > > Thanks,
                  > > Pooja
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                • poojawandile
                  ... but then that s how the customer is going to measure(-:, how well the team is doing and help him in further planning Thanks, Pooja
                  Message 8 of 17 , Apr 19, 2010
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                    > Any attempt at measuring 'productivity' using 'velocity' is irrelevant and useless too. >

                    but then that's how the customer is going to measure(-:, how well the team is doing and help him in further planning

                    Thanks,
                    Pooja

                    --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Roy Morien <roymorien@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > What is 'velocity'? It is a measure of the amount of development achieved by the team in a sprint, measured in whatever unit of measurement the team has decided ... user story points, whatever.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > So there is no concept of including anyone's 'effort' or 'time', just development achievement as measured.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Presumably the project is being costed, so the Scrum Master's cost would be included in the project cost. And project cost has nothing to do with measuring team velocity.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Any attempt at measuring 'productivity' using 'velocity' is irrelevant and useless too.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Regards,
                    >
                    > Roy Morien
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                    > From: poojawandile@...
                    > Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 10:33:32 +0000
                    > Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum master's effort tracking
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Hi,
                    > I have a query on scrum master's effort tracking.
                    > If a project has dedicated scrum master who is not doing any development tasks, but only monitoring Scrum process, do we have to consider his effort while calculating velocity? How and where his effort gets accounted?
                    >
                    > Thanks,
                    > Pooja
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > _________________________________________________________________
                    > If It Exists, You'll Find it on SEEK. Australia's #1 job site
                    > http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157639755/direct/01/
                    >
                  • Ron Jeffries
                    Hello, poojawandile. On Monday, April 19, 2010, at 8:25:10 AM, ... Velocity is the number of stories finished during the iteration. Period. Ron Jeffries
                    Message 9 of 17 , Apr 19, 2010
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                      Hello, poojawandile. On Monday, April 19, 2010, at 8:25:10 AM,
                      you wrote:

                      > ok, sorry, i put it wrongly, i didn't mean effort but the work
                      > scrum master does in the project other than the development tasks.

                      Velocity is the number of stories finished during the iteration.
                      Period.

                      Ron Jeffries
                      www.XProgramming.com
                      www.xprogramming.com/blog
                      I'm really pissed off by what people are passing off as "agile" these days.
                      You may have a red car, but that does not make it a Ferrari.
                      -- Steve Hayes
                    • Chet Hendrickson
                      Hello Pooja, Leaving aside the question of whether velocity calculations are worthwhile, they aren t. The efforts of a team member whose only role is
                      Message 10 of 17 , Apr 19, 2010
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                        Hello Pooja,

                        Leaving aside the question of whether velocity calculations are
                        worthwhile, they aren't. The efforts of a team member whose only role is ScrumMaster
                        will not directly contribute to velocity. You don't account for his
                        efforts.

                        chet

                        Monday, April 19, 2010, 6:33:32 AM, you wrote:

                        > Hi,
                        > I have a query on scrum master's effort tracking.
                        > If a project has dedicated scrum master who is not doing any
                        > development tasks, but only monitoring Scrum process, do we have to
                        > consider his effort while calculating velocity? How and where his effort gets accounted?

                        > Thanks,
                        > Pooja





                        --
                        Best regards,
                        Chet Hendrickson mailto:lists@...
                        Check out our upcoming CSM Plus courses @
                        http://hendricksonxp.com/index.php?option=com_eventlist&Itemid=28
                      • Ilja Preuß
                        For what purpose does his effort needs to get accounted for? Curious, Ilja
                        Message 11 of 17 , Apr 19, 2010
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                          For what purpose does his effort needs to get "accounted" for?

                          Curious, Ilja

                          2010/4/19 poojawandile <poojawandile@...>:
                          >
                          > ok, sorry, i put it wrongly, i didn't mean effort but the work scrum master does in the project other than the development tasks.
                          >
                          > pooja
                          >
                          > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Shaik Mohammed Saheb <shaikms@...> wrote:
                          >>
                          >> Pooja,
                          >>
                          >> Why do we need "effort" to calculate "velocity"?
                          >>
                          >> Cheers,
                          >> Shaik
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 4:03 PM, poojawandile <poojawandile@...>wrote:
                          >>
                          >> >
                          >> >
                          >> > Hi,
                          >> > I have a query on scrum master's effort tracking.
                          >> > If a project has dedicated scrum master who is not doing any development
                          >> > tasks, but only monitoring Scrum process, do we have to consider his effort
                          >> > while calculating velocity? How and where his effort gets accounted?
                          >> >
                          >> > Thanks,
                          >> > Pooja
                          >> >
                          >> >
                          >> >
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > To Post a message, send it to:   scrumdevelopment@...
                          > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • Ilja Preuß
                          I see you already answered this question... How would a project manager do it? The PO? Do the developers do things besides working on stories? How do they
                          Message 12 of 17 , Apr 19, 2010
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                            I see you already answered this question...

                            How would a project manager do it? The PO?

                            Do the developers do things besides working on stories? How do they
                            account for it?

                            2010/4/19 Ilja Preuß <iljapreuss@...>:
                            > For what purpose does his effort needs to get "accounted" for?
                            >
                            > Curious, Ilja
                            >
                            > 2010/4/19 poojawandile <poojawandile@...>:
                            >>
                            >> ok, sorry, i put it wrongly, i didn't mean effort but the work scrum master does in the project other than the development tasks.
                            >>
                            >> pooja
                            >>
                            >> --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Shaik Mohammed Saheb <shaikms@...> wrote:
                            >>>
                            >>> Pooja,
                            >>>
                            >>> Why do we need "effort" to calculate "velocity"?
                            >>>
                            >>> Cheers,
                            >>> Shaik
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>> On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 4:03 PM, poojawandile <poojawandile@...>wrote:
                            >>>
                            >>> >
                            >>> >
                            >>> > Hi,
                            >>> > I have a query on scrum master's effort tracking.
                            >>> > If a project has dedicated scrum master who is not doing any development
                            >>> > tasks, but only monitoring Scrum process, do we have to consider his effort
                            >>> > while calculating velocity? How and where his effort gets accounted?
                            >>> >
                            >>> > Thanks,
                            >>> > Pooja
                            >>> >
                            >>> >
                            >>> >
                            >>>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> ------------------------------------
                            >>
                            >> To Post a message, send it to:   scrumdevelopment@...
                            >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >
                          • Steve Ropa
                            I would advise the customer to merely measure whether or not he is getting business value each iteration. How well the team is doing is up to the team to
                            Message 13 of 17 , Apr 19, 2010
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                              I would advise the customer to merely measure whether or not he is getting business value each iteration.  How well the team is doing is up to the team to determine and decide if there is anything they want to do about.  As far as further planning, you can't get a better answer than Ron's:  Velocity is the number of stories completed in an iteration.

                              Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 6:28 AM
                              Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Scrum master's effort tracking

                               

                              > Any attempt at measuring 'productivity' using 'velocity' is irrelevant

                              and useless too. >

                              but then that's how the customer is going to measure(-:, how well the team is doing and help him in further planning

                              Thanks,
                              Pooja

                              --- In scrumdevelopment@ yahoogroups. com, Roy Morien <roymorien@. ..> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > What is
                              'velocity'? It is a measure of the amount of development achieved by the team in a sprint, measured in whatever unit of measurement the team has decided ... user story points, whatever.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > So there is no
                              concept of including anyone's 'effort' or 'time', just development achievement as measured.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Presumably the project is being
                              costed, so the Scrum Master's cost would be included in the project cost. And project cost has nothing to do with measuring team velocity.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Any attempt at measuring 'productivity' using 'velocity' is
                              irrelevant and useless too.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Regards,
                              >
                              > Roy Morien
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > To:
                              href="mailto:scrumdevelopment%40yahoogroups.com">scrumdevelopment@ yahoogroups. com
                              >
                              From: poojawandile@ ...
                              > Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 10:33:32
                              +0000
                              > Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum master's effort tracking
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Hi,
                              > I have a query on scrum
                              master's effort tracking.
                              > If a project has dedicated scrum master who
                              is not doing any development tasks, but only monitoring Scrum process, do we have to consider his effort while calculating velocity? How and where his effort gets accounted?
                              >
                              > Thanks,
                              > Pooja
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                              >
                              If It Exists, You'll Find it on SEEK. Australia's #1 job site
                              >
                              href="http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157639755/direct/01/">http://clk.atdmt. com/NMN/go/ 157639755/ direct/01/
                              >

                            • Malcolm Anderson
                              Pooja Ideally, the customer is attempting to solve a business issues and has an idea of what vertical slices would start solving that business issue soonest
                              Message 14 of 17 , Apr 19, 2010
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                                Pooja

                                Ideally, the customer is attempting to solve a business issues and has an idea of what vertical slices would start solving that business issue soonest (and start bringing money into the company soonest.)

                                If the customer doesn't clearly know what he or she is trying to accomplish, then it doesn't matter what you measure. 

                                The measure that I prefer to use is ROI (Return On Investment).  Any other measure has potential to give you a good feeling about imaginary progress.

                                Malcolm




                                On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 7:28 AM, poojawandile <poojawandile@...> wrote:
                                 

                                > Any attempt at measuring 'productivity' using 'velocity' is irrelevant and useless too. >

                                but then that's how the customer is going to measure(-:, how well the team is doing and help him in further planning

                                Thanks,
                                Pooja



                              • scott preece
                                At some level, the justification is presumably that the team has higher velocity with the SM doing her job than without. However, as others have noted, it s
                                Message 15 of 17 , Apr 19, 2010
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                                  At some level, the justification is presumably that the team has higher velocity with the SM doing her job than without. However, as others have noted, it's not really about velocity (a measure used within the team), it's about delivered business value. Again, the claim would be that the SM allows the team to deliver more business value per unit time.

                                  regards,
                                  scott

                                  --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "poojawandile" <poojawandile@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > >If the Scrum Master is not in, other team members usually have to pick-up at least part of his tasks>
                                  > I am looking at other way round. The team has Scrum master whose job is to ensure that scrum process is followed by the team. When user stories are picked by team members, he is not comitting to any story because he is not taking up any development tasks. So there are no user stories against his name. When team velocity is calculated how is the scrum master's work get accounted for/looked at in absence of any user story for him? My main concern is how does a scrum master justify his/her role when no user story is committed by him.
                                  >
                                  > Thanks,
                                  > Pooja
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Wouter Lagerweij <wouter@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Hi,
                                  > >
                                  > > We do adjust our expected velocity (so the amount of work taken into a
                                  > > sprint) based on availability of team members. That means that if a team
                                  > > member is on holiday for half of the sprint, we subtract a part of the
                                  > > expected velocity: ie. 12 points instead of 15, if one team member of a 5
                                  > > person team is absent.
                                  > >
                                  > > If the Scrum Master is not in, other team members usually have to pick-up at
                                  > > least part of his tasks, and we take that out of our expected velocity: one
                                  > > developer is going to be spending 50% of his time on scrum master tasks, so
                                  > > substract about two points.
                                  > >
                                  > > Note that all this happens in the Sprint Planning meeting, and is not done
                                  > > as an exact calculation: we look at availability and simply adjust the
                                  > > expected amount of storypoints we can handle downward until we think it
                                  > > seems right. In an earlier team I have done this more strictly (calculate
                                  > > 'effective' velocity based on nr. of storypoints set against the percentage
                                  > > of availability) but that turned out to not be more accurate then what we're
                                  > > doing now.
                                  > >
                                  > > Wouter
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 12:40 PM, Roy Morien <roymorien@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > What is 'velocity'? It is a measure of the amount of development achieved
                                  > > > by the team in a sprint, measured in whatever unit of measurement the team
                                  > > > has decided ... user story points, whatever.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > So there is no concept of including anyone's 'effort' or 'time', just
                                  > > > development achievement as measured.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Presumably the project is being costed, so the Scrum Master's cost would be
                                  > > > included in the project cost. And project cost has nothing to do with
                                  > > > measuring team velocity.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Any attempt at measuring 'productivity' using 'velocity' is irrelevant and
                                  > > > useless too.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Regards,
                                  > > > Roy Morien
                                  > > >
                                  > > > ------------------------------
                                  > > > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > > From: poojawandile@
                                  > > > Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 10:33:32 +0000
                                  > > > Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum master's effort tracking
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Hi,
                                  > > > I have a query on scrum master's effort tracking.
                                  > > > If a project has dedicated scrum master who is not doing any development
                                  > > > tasks, but only monitoring Scrum process, do we have to consider his effort
                                  > > > while calculating velocity? How and where his effort gets accounted?
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Thanks,
                                  > > > Pooja
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > ------------------------------
                                  > > > Australia's #1 job site If It Exists, You'll Find it on SEEK<http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157639755/direct/01/>
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • Roy Morien
                                  The customer may do so, but that is still irrelevant. If you try to measure productivity in terms of velocity, you can easily increase your productivity by
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Apr 19, 2010
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                                    The customer may do so, but that is still irrelevant. If you try to measure 'productivity' in terms of velocity, you can easily increase your 'productivity' by applying story poitnsat a higher rate than before. So instead of using 1,2,4,6,8 you use 4,6,8,12,16 ... wonderful, your productivity just doubled or more!
                                     
                                    "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but customers seem to be able to be fooled most of the time".
                                     
                                    Regards,
                                    Roy Morien
                                     

                                    To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                                    From: poojawandile@...
                                    Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 12:28:07 +0000
                                    Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Scrum master's effort tracking

                                     
                                    > Any attempt at measuring 'productivity' using 'velocity' is irrelevant and useless too. >

                                    but then that's how the customer is going to measure(-:, how well the team is doing and help him in further planning

                                    Thanks,
                                    Pooja

                                    --- In scrumdevelopment@ yahoogroups. com, Roy Morien <roymorien@. ..> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > What is 'velocity'? It is a measure of the amount of development achieved by the team in a sprint, measured in whatever unit of measurement the team has decided ... user story points, whatever.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > So there is no concept of including anyone's 'effort' or 'time', just development achievement as measured.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Presumably the project is being costed, so the Scrum Master's cost would be included in the project cost. And project cost has nothing to do with measuring team velocity.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Any attempt at measuring 'productivity' using 'velocity' is irrelevant and useless too.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Regards,
                                    >
                                    > Roy Morien
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > To: scrumdevelopment@ yahoogroups. com
                                    > From: poojawandile@ ...
                                    > Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 10:33:32 +0000
                                    > Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum master's effort tracking
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Hi,
                                    > I have a query on scrum master's effort tracking.
                                    > If a project has dedicated scrum master who is not doing any development tasks, but only monitoring Scrum process, do we have to consider his effort while calculating velocity? How and where his effort gets accounted?
                                    >
                                    > Thanks,
                                    > Pooja
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
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                                  • Roy Morien
                                    That seems reasonable, I think. If you have a team of 8, with a velocity of, say, 24, then presumably simple arithmetic tells us that each team member
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Apr 19, 2010
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                                      That seems reasonable, I think.  If you have a team of 8, with a velocity of, say, 24, then presumably simple arithmetic tells us that each team member contributes 3 to the velocity. If you use velocity as a figure for selecting stories into a sprint, then it seems reasonable to select 21 points worth of stories if you will only have 7 team members next sprint.
                                       
                                      You arew acknowledging that the non-development tasks carried out, by the SM, do not contribute to 'velocity', as is he case with any activity that does not result in delivered product.
                                       
                                      Regards,
                                      Roy Morien
                                       

                                      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                                      From: wouter@...
                                      Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 13:32:19 +0200
                                      Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum master's effort tracking

                                       
                                      Hi,

                                      We do adjust our expected velocity (so the amount of work taken into a sprint) based on availability of team members. That means that if a team member is on holiday for half of the sprint, we subtract a part of the expected velocity: ie. 12 points instead of 15, if one team member of a 5 person team is absent.

                                      If the Scrum Master is not in, other team members usually have to pick-up at least part of his tasks, and we take that out of our expected velocity: one developer is going to be spending 50% of his time on scrum master tasks, so substract about two points.

                                      Note that all this happens in the Sprint Planning meeting, and is not done as an exact calculation: we look at availability and simply adjust the expected amount of storypoints we can handle downward until we think it seems right. In an earlier team I have done this more strictly (calculate 'effective' velocity based on nr. of storypoints set against the percentage of availability) but that turned out to not be more accurate then what we're doing now.

                                      Wouter


                                      On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 12:40 PM, Roy Morien <roymorien@hotmail. com> wrote:
                                       

                                      What is 'velocity'?  It is a measure of the amount of development achieved by the team in a sprint, measured in whatever unit of measurement the team has decided ... user story points, whatever.
                                       
                                      So there is no concept of including anyone's 'effort' or 'time', just development achievement as measured.
                                       
                                      Presumably the project is being costed, so the Scrum Master's cost would be included in the project cost. And project cost has nothing to do with measuring team velocity.
                                       
                                      Any attempt at measuring 'productivity' using 'velocity' is irrelevant and useless too.
                                       
                                      Regards,
                                      Roy Morien
                                       


                                      To: scrumdevelopment@ yahoogroups. com
                                      From: poojawandile@ yahoo.com
                                      Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 10:33:32 +0000
                                      Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum master's effort tracking

                                       
                                      Hi,
                                      I have a query on scrum master's effort tracking.
                                      If a project has dedicated scrum master who is not doing any development tasks, but only monitoring Scrum process, do we have to consider his effort while calculating velocity? How and where his effort gets accounted?

                                      Thanks,
                                      Pooja




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