Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Letting attacks go unchallenged
- Personally I like most of the premises in scumban.I have followed the advice of starting out a team with a traditional scrum board and iterative model, and then eveolved it to a more continuous and tailored kanban.I see scrum as a kind of kanban, a generic one that has gained slot of popularity. I don't see scrum and kanban as an either/or decision.I'd like to see other teams start publishing their kanban boards, as these boards are mire situational, and take some creativity to set up.I'm in the middle if creating a soft coy of mine to post.
On Feb 1, 2010, at 8:56 AM, "maxwell_keeler" <maxk@...> wrote:
I am a big fan of Corey's writing -- he's lucid, funny and yes, at times, harsh. I learned a lot from his book. I think his frustration is in part caused by the often poor application of Scrum to support the day-to-day operations of a business.
I have found that Scrum works the best when there is a product, a budget and a goal. This in most cases represents the minority of work for many organizations. Most work is an endless stream of small and tweaky tasks and supports a larger trend in strategy rather than a specific goal. My interpretation of Corey's advocacy of a leaner approach is that it it is a better application of process to this type of work.
That said, I am not convinced that this is a better way of working altogether and that we should strive formulate work in terms of goal,product and budget as much as possible and then apply Scrum to create an incredibly high-quality product in a short amount of time moving the ball up the field any way we can rather than through a structured work flow, ala Rugby.
So the question isn't is Scrum better than lean/Kanban, the question is when should we apply the right framework that best supports our business.
--- In scrumdevelopment@ yahoogroups. com, "mel" <mel.pullen@ ...> wrote:
> I was reading this post on Availagility
> <http://availagility .co.uk/2008/ 11/26/kanban- and-the-new- new-product- dev\
> elopment-game/ > about the seminal article, "The new new product
> development game".
> This comment by Corey Ladas stands out:
> "I forgot how much bullshit had been added by the CSM crowd"
> I've just finished Corey's book called Scrum-Ban. In that he adds a lot
> of structure to the development process, that may be appropriate to
> software development and that requires interpretation by technically
> competent people. I think this comment in the book is telling:
> "If you refuse to take responsibility for sequencing the work, then I
> He calls this the developer's natural authority. To my mind, the
> priesthood of traditional software development shops is what got
> businesses into the mess they are with managing dynamic projects in the
> first place.
> So, he's taken as a starting point the distillation of agile project
> control that is scrum and added structure.
> I believe Scrum has the absolute minimum to give management the
> confidence projects are moving forward. It is my opinion that, by not
> prescribing how the various events get done allows Scrum to be used in
> many other areas that software development. Even product development.
> I think that there are many tools, techniques and practices that work
> extremely well inside Scrum, depending upon the project that is being
> So, what do people think? Should the Scrum community respond or ignore?
> Should Scrum evolve the way that critics suggest or the way
> practitioners suggest?
> Apologies if people get bounces from the email address that Yahoo groups
> think I use. For some reason I can't change it. I suppose the simplest
> thing would be to create a new account. Use mel at our domain, which is
Doesn't it seem a bit disproportionate, though? It does to me. I too
am curious what aspect of the human condition causes us to attribute
so much power to these words. The word "fuck" for example - though it
has an accepted definition in common use its meaning is entirely
contextual. It doesn't even convey a useful concept, therefore. So,
why is its presence in speech (or writing) so important to us?_,_.___
Why does a "wardrobe malfunction" produce a massive emotional response including congressional investigations? Beats me. Probably has something to do with the Puritans and maybe that repression amplifies the response.
Having said that, I do live in a less prudish part of the world (more sex on TV, more tolerance for public nudism, less sensitivity to obscene language). Even here, scatological references don't have much place in public discourse - you might occasionally hear 'Scheisse' from a politician's mouth, but it's an exception.
An interesting question is why modesty developed, why it lives on, and whether it will survive the Internet. It seems pretty deeply rooted, but I think that question belongs on a different list...
-- Peter Stevens, CSM, CSPO, CSP www.scrum-breakfast.com tel: +41 44 586 6450