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Re: Confusion about Scrum

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  • paul_hepworth_2000
    Happy New Year to all of you as well. I hope 2010 will be a good year for all of us. ... I may have missed something along the process of healthy debate. I
    Message 1 of 44 , Jan 1, 2010
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      Happy New Year to all of you as well. I hope 2010 will be a good year for all of us.

      > I second Tobias in my hopes that you (Ken and Jeff) are able to resolve your differences
      > with the ScrumAlliance and continue to provide the world with one and only one definition
      > of what Scrum is.

      I may have missed something along the process of healthy debate. I know that there were some disagreements between ScrumAlliance and Ken, but I never heard any details about what they were.

      In general, I agree that their should be a definition of Scrum, but outside of how its defined, what are the "differences" between Scrum.org and ScrumAlliance, etc? I would hope that these discussions would get more specific about where they disagree/differ and work through the disagreements in an open manner. Its likely that the disagreements lay outside of the core of Scrum as Tobias pointed out earlier.

      Lets avoid the the "sect" breakup akin to Christianity and spend our efforts agreeing on principles and a common denominator of Scrum foundations and practices.

      The last thing we need is two groups claiming to be "right" and both of them discrediting the other. In the end its not about Scrum, its about communication and effectiveness, and the ongoing contention will only bring a greater lack of of trust and appreciation for any formal group that claims to be the one true source.

      I realize that its easier for me to be critical since I am not in a position to influence any of this outside of what practices we use on my projects with my teams, but I hope I am making my opinion clear in all of this.

      Paul
    • Rafael Sabbagh
      * We had a very long thread about this last December, I believe. * I unfortunately lost a lot of threads the last few months due to my Master s dissertation.
      Message 44 of 44 , Mar 29, 2010
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        > We had a very long thread about this last December, I believe.

        I unfortunately lost a lot of threads the last few months due to my Master's dissertation. I'm glad it's almost over! :)

        > One reason is that industry doesn't pay for the research, so it doesn't get done. There's a big gap between the universities and industry.

        True. We're trying to make this gap smaller here in Brazil (when it comes to Agile methodologies at least), but it's very, very hard.

        > Let's face it. Industry is cheap. They're always looking for the results of the research, but they don't want to pay for it. :-)

        Yep. But I don't think the industry is the only part interested on research results. We, as active people at the Scrum/Agile community, should be very interested on that.Well, I believe PMI puts some effort on research that justifies their beliefs, right? Maybe the ScrumAlliance and Scrum.org could do that too.



        Best,
           Rafael Sabbagh


        On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 17:59, woynam <woyna@...> wrote:
         


        We had a very long thread about this last December, I believe.

        One reason is that industry doesn't pay for the research, so it doesn't get done. There's a big gap between the universities and industry.

        Let's face it. Industry is cheap. They're always looking for the results of the research, but they don't want to pay for it. :-)

        Mark



        --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Rafael Sabbagh <sabbagh@...> wrote:
        >
        > Yes, I agree. The question is: why then isn't serious research on
        > Agile/Scrum use being performed?
        >
        > Academically speaking, if I want to even justify why I am writing about
        > Agile and Scrum in my Master's dissertation, I should use any "valid"
        > research. Instead, I have to use this kind of thing, 'cause that's what
        > exists, and that's why I still need it.
        >
        >
        > Best,
        > Rafael Sabbagh
        >
        >
        >
        > On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 11:19, woynam <woyna@...> wrote:
        >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Sigh. This kind of "research" drives me completely nuts. First, this does
        > > not appear to be a proper random poll. It's an online poll of "Agile"
        > > companies. It does not represent a true sample of all IT companies.
        > >
        > > What can we conclude from the numbers? Simply that 84% of companies that
        > > consider themselves agile that bothered to answer the survey have used
        > > Scrum.
        > >
        > > This is a *far* cry from concluding that 84% of all companies use Scrum.
        > >
        > > Mark
        > >
        > > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com<scrumdevelopment%40yahoogroups.com>,

        > > Hariprakash Agrawal <haricha@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > link is:
        > > http://blogs.forrester.com/tom_grant/09-04-17-extended_family_agile
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > - Hari
        > > >
        > > > On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 7:38 AM, Rafael Sabbagh <sabbagh@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Getting back to that, did anybody have access to the actual Forrester
        > > > > Report about Agile and Scrum usage? It's now cited everywhere, but the
        > > > > actual data is nowhere on the web (not even at the Forrester website).
        > > Even
        > > > > if I'd want to buy it, I couldn't.
        > > > >
        > > > > I'm finishing my Master's dissertation and it would be great to add
        > > that
        > > > > data (and be able to refer to the report/research).
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Best,
        > > > > Rafael Sabbagh
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 15:57, Bob Hartman <bob.hartman@>wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > >>
        > > > >>
        > > > >> I don't want to fan the flames any more, but a quick Google search
        > > brought
        > > > >> up a Forrester blog entry with the information about Scrum usage which
        > > Ken
        > > > >> cited. I don't want to comment on it, but I thought if people were
        > > > >> interested they could see the data themselves at http://bit.ly/8ACF3g
        > > > >>
        > > > >> - Bob -
        > > > >>
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --
        > > > Regards,
        > > > Hariprakash Agrawal (Hari),
        > > > An Agile Coach (XP, Scrum), Certified Scrum Master, Trained Six Sigma
        > > Black
        > > > Belt, CMMi Consultant, ISO 9001:2000 Lead Auditor, MTech (Reliability &
        > > > Quality Engg) from IIT-KGP
        > > > http://opcord.com - OpCord provides trainings/consulting on many
        > > > frameworks/processes and testing services for organizations
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >


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