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Re: Confusion about Scrum

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  • pauloldfield1
    (responding to Srinivas) ... A perceptive error indeed :-) Not your error, though, I agree. ... True. But then, to aid communication *on a project* it is
    Message 1 of 44 , Jan 1, 2010
      (responding to Srinivas)

      > "Paul Oldman is right in ...

      A perceptive error indeed :-) Not your error, though, I agree.

      > Well, if only it was as easy. Most projects involve many
      > people, and the differences in understanding a framework,
      > between individuals often causes a lot of problems.

      True. But then, to aid communication *on a project* it is
      best to talk about the appropriate ways to work on that
      project, until there are no further misunderstandings. That
      *might* include all the practices of Scrum; it will certainly
      include other things. Doing Scrum is not an end in itself,
      except as a pure learning exercise.

      > I think s/w dev projects might be unique in the sense that
      > the understanding of the project, product as well as the
      > process between any two people is very likely to be different.

      I suspect not, but that is immaterial, your point still stands.

      > I think it helps enormously to make efforts to bring a whole
      > community to have a common understanding and concensus
      > regarding the definition of Scrum.

      Up to a point. Its value is in communicating ideas, and it
      helps to get those ideas pinned down, but the ideas we want to
      communicate change over time, as we learn more, or find we
      need to learn more. So yes, for the same reason we have
      a dictionary, having a definition of Scrum is useful. In
      fact I looked at a dictionary today, but that's fairly unusual.

      > I also don't think Ken intention was to preach 100% pure
      > Scrum usage and eschew all other practices.

      Surely not. But I liken it to saying one dictionary is
      better than another. What really matters are the ideas that
      are conveyed by the language that is described by the definitions
      in its dictionaries. Sometimes I want a dictionary that is
      complete and definitive; sometimes I want one that is pocket
      sized. Most of the time I just want to get on with talking to
      people.

      Paul Oldfield (a.k.a. Oldman)
      Capgemini
    • Rafael Sabbagh
      * We had a very long thread about this last December, I believe. * I unfortunately lost a lot of threads the last few months due to my Master s dissertation.
      Message 44 of 44 , Mar 29, 2010
        > We had a very long thread about this last December, I believe.

        I unfortunately lost a lot of threads the last few months due to my Master's dissertation. I'm glad it's almost over! :)

        > One reason is that industry doesn't pay for the research, so it doesn't get done. There's a big gap between the universities and industry.

        True. We're trying to make this gap smaller here in Brazil (when it comes to Agile methodologies at least), but it's very, very hard.

        > Let's face it. Industry is cheap. They're always looking for the results of the research, but they don't want to pay for it. :-)

        Yep. But I don't think the industry is the only part interested on research results. We, as active people at the Scrum/Agile community, should be very interested on that.Well, I believe PMI puts some effort on research that justifies their beliefs, right? Maybe the ScrumAlliance and Scrum.org could do that too.



        Best,
           Rafael Sabbagh


        On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 17:59, woynam <woyna@...> wrote:
         


        We had a very long thread about this last December, I believe.

        One reason is that industry doesn't pay for the research, so it doesn't get done. There's a big gap between the universities and industry.

        Let's face it. Industry is cheap. They're always looking for the results of the research, but they don't want to pay for it. :-)

        Mark



        --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Rafael Sabbagh <sabbagh@...> wrote:
        >
        > Yes, I agree. The question is: why then isn't serious research on
        > Agile/Scrum use being performed?
        >
        > Academically speaking, if I want to even justify why I am writing about
        > Agile and Scrum in my Master's dissertation, I should use any "valid"
        > research. Instead, I have to use this kind of thing, 'cause that's what
        > exists, and that's why I still need it.
        >
        >
        > Best,
        > Rafael Sabbagh
        >
        >
        >
        > On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 11:19, woynam <woyna@...> wrote:
        >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Sigh. This kind of "research" drives me completely nuts. First, this does
        > > not appear to be a proper random poll. It's an online poll of "Agile"
        > > companies. It does not represent a true sample of all IT companies.
        > >
        > > What can we conclude from the numbers? Simply that 84% of companies that
        > > consider themselves agile that bothered to answer the survey have used
        > > Scrum.
        > >
        > > This is a *far* cry from concluding that 84% of all companies use Scrum.
        > >
        > > Mark
        > >
        > > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com<scrumdevelopment%40yahoogroups.com>,

        > > Hariprakash Agrawal <haricha@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > link is:
        > > http://blogs.forrester.com/tom_grant/09-04-17-extended_family_agile
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > - Hari
        > > >
        > > > On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 7:38 AM, Rafael Sabbagh <sabbagh@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Getting back to that, did anybody have access to the actual Forrester
        > > > > Report about Agile and Scrum usage? It's now cited everywhere, but the
        > > > > actual data is nowhere on the web (not even at the Forrester website).
        > > Even
        > > > > if I'd want to buy it, I couldn't.
        > > > >
        > > > > I'm finishing my Master's dissertation and it would be great to add
        > > that
        > > > > data (and be able to refer to the report/research).
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Best,
        > > > > Rafael Sabbagh
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 15:57, Bob Hartman <bob.hartman@>wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > >>
        > > > >>
        > > > >> I don't want to fan the flames any more, but a quick Google search
        > > brought
        > > > >> up a Forrester blog entry with the information about Scrum usage which
        > > Ken
        > > > >> cited. I don't want to comment on it, but I thought if people were
        > > > >> interested they could see the data themselves at http://bit.ly/8ACF3g
        > > > >>
        > > > >> - Bob -
        > > > >>
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --
        > > > Regards,
        > > > Hariprakash Agrawal (Hari),
        > > > An Agile Coach (XP, Scrum), Certified Scrum Master, Trained Six Sigma
        > > Black
        > > > Belt, CMMi Consultant, ISO 9001:2000 Lead Auditor, MTech (Reliability &
        > > > Quality Engg) from IIT-KGP
        > > > http://opcord.com - OpCord provides trainings/consulting on many
        > > > frameworks/processes and testing services for organizations
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >


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